Why did they laugh?
rarebit wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
It was a form of invalidation. People laughing together form a bond, and that is sometimes at the expense of something or someone else.
yes, invalidation is a form of rejection.
the schema to pick up on such an observation was learned, and not born with.
I'm still going to see it that the parents were there for the good and not because of some conspiracy / virus to reject them. You're reading too much into it with this memes thing, you see it everywhere.
Also the laughing may have been to cover a mistake rather than invalidate it by discussing it. We are talking about a teacher and the individuals parents here, not some school yard kids!
Just because you do not approve of such behaviour doesn't make it a conspiracy!
In your reply you have added some things as tools to make it easier for you to be dismissive.
You told me what I was doing "reading too much into", then told me "you see it everywhere", and also added the word "conspiracy", which I did not use. I also know that the parents were not school yard kids, so that was unnecessary. These are constructs from your own thoughts, not mine, yet the intended use seems to be to be dismissive towards me, thus putting your own position of "going to see that the parents were there for the good" in a relatively higher position.
My posts here were not intended to infer that there was no other explanation for the laughing. There may be one. However, I believe my statements were correct and represent one very possible explanation.
I will say that, yes I do see the memes the memes almost everywhere, because they are there.
My statements about my observations of memes are in fact competing memes that generally represent a threat to the hive-mind, and therefore often draw out an immune (defensive) response from individuals that host a lot of the hive software. This immune response generally contains certain memetic components that make it markedly different from a healthy skepticism.
If the parents and whoever else was involved laughed together due to some infraction of a social cue that they picked up on, which seems likely, then no conscious conspiracy would be required. The bonding would have been initiated intuitively by the subconscious. They would have simply felt the urge to laugh in order to make themselves feel better about the situation.
What are the chances that the original poster committed some social infraction that the hive-mind would pick up on and reject?
Well, since they are posting here and likely have an ASD, I would say that the chances are high, which is why I posted my reply here as a possible explanation. No one need agree with it.
In my own experience, and with others here, what I suggested does happen quite often, and is a source of dismay for many of us, resulting in many negative experiences, and sometimes mental trauma, especially over time. This makes the possibility relevant and significant in my opinion.
However, what you suggested is also a possibility. If it can be determined more positively that the laughing was really innocent, then that is important because it could render the event harmless to the original poster.
Some say that we may just naturally be too sensitive to such events, but I think that the sensitivity is a conditioned response due to the situation I described happening so often.
Cyllya1 wrote:
Maybe you chose to have an uncommon vocabulary because of your insecurities, but I don't think that was the case with a lot of us. I occassionally have someone give me crap about using "big words" when I'm using what seems to be perfectly normal words.
The problem isn't actually "big words" (no one would expect you to avoid using the word "encyclopedia") but rather words that the listener doesn't know, or sometimes things that the listener would have chosen to word differently. That's not information we have access to.
The problem isn't actually "big words" (no one would expect you to avoid using the word "encyclopedia") but rather words that the listener doesn't know, or sometimes things that the listener would have chosen to word differently. That's not information we have access to.
Being grossly misunderstood, especially during verbal communication, is a significant commonality among us.
We become conditioned to consciously construct our communications in extremely particular ways in an effort to reduce the misunderstanding. This very often results in the use of uncommon words and/or sentence structures.
We are often described as being pedantic and/or pretentious because of our relatively unique communication styles.
The effort we put into constructing communications is rarely appreciated. Conversely, it's often a target of attack or basis for rejection.
This may be an important difference:
When someone uses a big word, or word I don't understand, with me, then I simply ask them what it means, to clarify, or to rephrase. It NEVER makes me feel inferior to them in any way, and I actually enjoy learning new things and value the ability to better understand the information that the other person intended to share with me.
From my observations, many, if not most, NTs do not respond like this at all. It's as if they feel that the other person ( sometimes me ) intentionally used a word they don't know in order to make them feel bad about themselves, - setting up a superior/inferior arrangement in the communication. To them, it seems that the actual information being shared is of little concern. The communication is more of a tool for emotional manipulation, validation, and invalidation.
olympiadis wrote:
In your reply you have added some things as tools to make it easier for you to be dismissive.
You told me what I was doing "reading too much into", then told me "you see it everywhere", and also added the word "conspiracy", which I did not use. I also know that the parents were not school yard kids, so that was unnecessary. These are constructs from your own thoughts, not mine, yet the intended use seems to be to be dismissive towards me, thus putting your own position of "going to see that the parents were there for the good" in a relatively higher position.
You told me what I was doing "reading too much into", then told me "you see it everywhere", and also added the word "conspiracy", which I did not use. I also know that the parents were not school yard kids, so that was unnecessary. These are constructs from your own thoughts, not mine, yet the intended use seems to be to be dismissive towards me, thus putting your own position of "going to see that the parents were there for the good" in a relatively higher position.
The only real dismissiveness is me questioning you always going for this hivemind explanation, but its not meant offensively, just one of my ASC coping strategies. You do mention it on most threads so yes I said that, but you do, and since you do I think its starting to sound like a paranoia.
The school yard kids, it was drawing a comparison and I thought it necessary because you were claiming the parents were probably invalidating their child!
You're reading too much into it, but I am sort of sorry if you find me saying that invalidating.
olympiadis wrote:
My posts here were not intended to infer that there was no other explanation for the laughing. There may be one. However, I believe my statements were correct and represent one very possible explanation.
I will say that, yes I do see the memes the memes almost everywhere, because they are there.
My statements about my observations of memes are in fact competing memes that generally represent a threat to the hive-mind, and therefore often draw out an immune (defensive) response from individuals that host a lot of the hive software. This immune response generally contains certain memetic components that make it markedly different from a healthy skepticism.
I will say that, yes I do see the memes the memes almost everywhere, because they are there.
My statements about my observations of memes are in fact competing memes that generally represent a threat to the hive-mind, and therefore often draw out an immune (defensive) response from individuals that host a lot of the hive software. This immune response generally contains certain memetic components that make it markedly different from a healthy skepticism.
Correct or one possible explanation?
Just like with the invalidation point, if you look you will see memes everywhere, even amongst ND's. However this is my main point, you really do see them everywhere as you say...
As too the ND memes or behaviours, I don't believe or see that they are threatened as you say. Laughing as a defensive response in this situation, I can't see why except if they were being forced to agree with something irrational and were doing their best not to invalidate, but that would cancel out the intent of trying to invalidate, would it not?
How much hive software do you have, ND and NT?
What are these components, too vague to answer...
olympiadis wrote:
If the parents and whoever else was involved laughed together due to some infraction of a social cue that they picked up on, which seems likely, then no conscious conspiracy would be required. The bonding would have been initiated intuitively by the subconscious. They would have simply felt the urge to laugh in order to make themselves feel better about the situation.
What are the chances that the original poster committed some social infraction that the hive-mind would pick up on and reject?
Well, since they are posting here and likely have an ASD, I would say that the chances are high, which is why I posted my reply here as a possible explanation. No one need agree with it.
What are the chances that the original poster committed some social infraction that the hive-mind would pick up on and reject?
Well, since they are posting here and likely have an ASD, I would say that the chances are high, which is why I posted my reply here as a possible explanation. No one need agree with it.
Bonding subconsciously due to laughing, or simply agreeing to not dwell and move on. Yes somewhat invalidating, but better than a full invalidating discourse. So was it to make them feel better about themselves or with the intent to help their child?
The hivemind, you mean the parents and teacher, your label is insulting and assuming.
Your original quote:
olympiadis wrote:
I think that urge is likely driven by a mind virus passed to them by the social structure, and not always an urge that they were just born with.
A likely urge, I'd guess at a response, well we know its a response because the OP states as much. An urge is more like you reproducing and infecting everything with your hivemind theory, which is what I'm more disagreeing with
olympiadis wrote:
In my own experience, and with others here, what I suggested does happen quite often, and is a source of dismay for many of us, resulting in many negative experiences, and sometimes mental trauma, especially over time. This makes the possibility relevant and significant in my opinion.
I'd have to say that the regularity is subjective. Nice one on bring others in , nice dismissive tool.
What do you do when someone you're caring for has a social infraction (as you put it)?
olympiadis wrote:
However, what you suggested is also a possibility. If it can be determined more positively that the laughing was really innocent, then that is important because it could render the event harmless to the original poster.
Politeness forbids me, my discussion here is with you.
olympiadis wrote:
Some say that we may just naturally be too sensitive to such events, but I think that the sensitivity is a conditioned response due to the situation I described happening so often.
Are they telling us that we are too sensitive to such events?
Yes the response is probably learnt behaviour under such conditions, so... is it better to compound that or challenge such conditioning with something more positive, such as a short (positive) laugh?
* I say positive since these are their parents and a concerned teacher.
** Sorry for the length and I hope you appreciate my time to answer fully, as I appreciate your time and opinions. I am a challenging person, I don't accept many things on face value or if I feel not to understand or not agree fully, probably why I've a co-morbid ADHD. My challenge is open though, I do value where you're coming from, just questioning if appropriate here...etc. Thankyou
*** BTW, I also want to ask you about "gaming", hard to search for...
To the OP, other than a few somewhat dismissive laughs, I wouldn't worry about it, I'm positive that their intentions were good!
I recently had a doctor who always laughed before he called my name. So, I laughed before saying his name (for no real reason), he cottoned on to my obvious dislike and he's never done it again since. As I said in an earlier post, bring it up with either one or both parents at another time. Basically whatever, keep on expressing yourself, challenge things and don't accept being dismissed, but do it calmly.
rarebit wrote:
You're reading too much into it, but I am sort of sorry if you find me saying that invalidating.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that the OP was shared here for the purpose of us reading into it and providing our input.
rarebit wrote:
How much hive software do you have, ND and NT?
Far more than I'm comfortable with. It's pervasive, invasive, and relentless. I'm not good at hosting it, but it is impossible to avoid due to my always having been embedded within it.
rarebit wrote:
The hivemind, you mean the parents and teacher, your label is insulting and assuming.
No, that's not what I meant. The humans involved are only the hosts through which the hive-mind acts.
rarebit wrote:
A likely urge, I'd guess at a response, well we know its a response because the OP states as much. An urge is more like you reproducing and infecting everything with your hivemind theory, which is what I'm more disagreeing with
I can tell that you don't agree. I suspect that you don't understand my hive-mind theory/model.
Perhaps my posting information about it often will help to resolve that.
The hive-mind is not abstract in the way a vision of a piece of art is.
It's a system intelligence.
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