The Origins of Asperger's Syndrome - A theory

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I am willing to demonstrate it for as long as you are willing to finance my research!

Star

Actually, this is a quote from Temple Grandin, who wrote many books with her experience with Autism and research that has been done to understand it.

Please do not take my criticism of your theory as a personal attack. It is not meant to be such. When you're posting a theory, you have to make sure that you can back it up with research, observation and experimentation. It will be criticized and checked for factual accuracy not just by me, but by people who are going to look at it as a way to explain why things are.

Star,

I see it. I am a much better hunter and fisherman than any I have known. I find what others cannot.

Human social behavior works against hunting. As for being face and mind blind, it gives a warrior an edge. Looking into someone's eyes, studying their face, and figuring out what they are thinking about, is all a waste that will get you killed. I do an aspie, watch their feet, all motion starts there.

When there is plenty any hunter can bring in food, but when it is scarce, hence most important, the skill of the hunt becomes more important. Aspie can be very single minded.

I noticed it when I was a Boy Scout. Most people talk on a hike, never see anything but the other hikers, everything in the forest knows they are there. They also get tired, thirsty, hungry, and want to stop all the time. When they stopped I kept going. Alone I saw before being seen, and still maintained a fast pace. I covered the distance in half the time, and still had my food and water.

Hunting or being hunted I had the better skills. I reach shelter sooner, so I have more time to seek the best place, firewood, and anything to eat about. I would go alone and pick out a campsite, have the fire going, and had checked the area when the rest made it. When I got there I hung my pack and went to work, they flopped on the ground, made more noise.

I am a better tool maker and user. I do look for the narrow crevice between rocks where a bear could not reach me. I am a natural in the woods. I can see why a tribe would value someone who ignored hardship, ignored personalities, and was waiting at the next camp with a secure location, fire, food, when they arrived. I just wander, I will walk all day, if there was game, danger, enemies, I would be the first to spot it.

If there was game for the tribe I would know where they would be tomorrow, where to place the hunters, what weapons they should use, and threatening any who made noise, would place them, then drive the game, or lead the enemy, into their line. Aspies are insenitive to pain, you do not stop during the hunt or in battle for an injury.

A lack of reaction on an emotional level means when others run about wasting energy talking about, an aspie would go to the hillside and getting into one of those move things, would make fifty spears. The tribe are not fighters, but will feel more secure when armed. In a conflict, they will throw spears badly, and while the enemy is busy, the aspie strikes from the rear and does some real damage.

My family line is generally hated, till a war starts. Then they want us to lead them. I think their reaction to aspies is they know we are better, feel inferior, hence try bullying. Slap them up side the head they change their mind. If two fight for top dog, no one is hunting, watching for danger, the tribe is in danger, and an aspie would show no reaction while smashing both their skulls with a stone ax.

In the modern era, I am not the only aspie inventor, most were, Tesla. I am not the only natural Professor, aspie built the education system. Aspies rank in all technology, many a small busness built on skill, and in larger, Lear, an eight track tape and a cool little jet, Howard Hughes? Bill Gates.

While the herd talks of group chatter, the aspies are out looking for the tools of the future. As for group leadership, aspies do not want it. They were more the Shamen. They thought ahead, to others foretold the future. When the fish run in the river it is late to make spears.

Now that we are social rejects, no longer the keeper of wisdom, Seer of the Spirit Path, poor Bill Gates made himself the world's richest man in twenty years. Now the first generation to grow up with computers, traditionally the one to make actual use of a new technology, they find us Dinos have kept up, and we all wind up on WP. I looked at other forums, they are tribes without Shamans,

Here we are, smarter and more fun than Mensa, a wide range, music, art, science, technology, IT. We gather and converse over the world, across lines of gender, age, ask questions, and explore possible futures. The technology curve is going strait up, and we with it. I have tried to explain computer repair to my customers, they dont get it, imagine another twenty years.

I do wonder if more of us are born at some times, if the percentage changes in the population which could be traced to outside influence. Medical Science is the study of how to make money. We are on our own. We should self study and define.

Then, by that theory it would have gotten my brothers first since I have five of them. Sperm isn't kept around for long and all the eggs a woman ever produces are created before she's born. It would have to have the ability to mutate it later and even then, you would need to explain why it missed my brothers and got me. It certainly had plenty of time in between. Many things can happen to the DNA during fertilization and implantation. It goes through mulitple changes at that point. It's more likely the change occurs at that point and that is believed to be paritally environmental. That probably accounts for why they look at the pregnancy rather than pre-pregnancy. So your theory would have to address how that works before the pregnancy and the "skip" factor.

As to the predators being animals, man thrived by hunting in societies like other pack animals. We were more like the ones who were shamans, wise women, etc. They however, didn't tend to procreate and stayed by themselves in most tribal societies, which would seem to indicated again that something is causing a spontaneous mutation since there weren't that many geniuses running around in tribes. Our value would have been as inventors, wise people and healers most likely. That still wouldn't account for why we kept going when those roles didn't tend to procreate.

I still think it's more likely that we are on the increase due to technology making our traits more desirable and increasing our chances for progeny. That's if the mutation that creates us can be passed down. Most spontaneous mutations cannot be.

So those are the gaps I see that would have to be looked at to test it out. Have fun. Genetics is a very complex subject.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 30 Mar 2007, 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's what I think Maldoror. We do better at more technological work and we can stay with it for longer periods without interruption. That's what is needed today. Right now they are getting ready to cut thousands of jobs at my company and they are looking specifically for people who "socialize" at work to cut because they are unproductive. They are also looking for those who want to "get home to their own lives." In other words, they are going to cut NTs. It's been the same everywhere I've worked. That makes Aspies more desirable employees and as that keeps increasing they become better potential mate options, leading to more Aspies. Natural selection in action.

Don't take this as an attack, however I think the theory is illogical.

I liken it to the white bread theory, 85% of criminals ate white bread the morning that they committed their crime, therefore, eating white bread makes people criminals. Don't eat it.

In many ways, I think that the white bread theory is similar to the vaccination theory with Autism. Mercury based vaccines have been used widely recently, and suddenly, ASD spectrum people are being identified everywhere! Is it related? Or is our understanding of the condition improving? Thus more children are getting a proper DX? I look around, and see ASD adults all over! I think some professions just about "require" you to be an ASD individual, or at least be an NT with ASD traits! Is it really on the rise? I don't think so, and find it particularly troubling that they are working on tests that would allow mothers to abort ASD babies. (what a loss to humanity)

They are finding tons of reasons why Autism develops based on good scientific theory. I agree, that Autism in some primitive societies may have been an advantage, in others, a disadvantage. Overall, some forms of Autism are indeed, NOT a disorder, just a differnt way of processing information.

So, why it develops, we really don't know. If you think it is related to adrenaline and stress, the first step to take, may be to conduct polls on ASD websites. Ask, where you under a lot of stress when you concieved your ASD child? Or where your parents when you where concieved? Pregnant?

I know I was under a lot of "stress" when I had my children, two are NT's, not even with traits of ASD one is AS. I was under stress because of dealing with the changes of pregnancy due to my own AS! So, is my AS son on the ASD spectrum because of my "stress" or my genetics? I was under more stress with my two NTs BTW.

Intersting to note, my two NT's and my AS have different fathers. (not 3 fathers, only two). My AS son, has me as his mother, and looking back, I am sure an AS father. My two NTs have an NT father. To me, this points more to genetics, then to stress as a possible reason "why".

Just my two cents.

AS is clearly genetic in my case and the adrenaline theory cannot account for that. We also have different abilities and disabilities to varying degrees so the sensory issues vary and cannot account for AS. I have CAPD so I do look at people's faces and do make eye contact. I can read a lot of body language: I know that when my husband raises one eyebrow in response to a comment, his state of mind is skepticism.

In complex social situations, I cannot follow every conversation; I don't pick up on every cue (too many to process) so I make "state of mind" errors with the others in the social situation. I don't intuitively know the cues, so I'm unable to "read between the lines" for any social situation without concentrating. Sometimes, I encounter information "between the lines" which I've never encountered and miss it completely or I'm so stuck on my own thoughts so I can't pay attention.

I believe the ToM theory is close to the truth. We don't have the intuitive ability to read the body cues, hidden messages, or implied meanings in the way language is used. We can compensate by thinking about it and trying to figure it out. I've improved immensely in the past 10 years or so of being aware of it and concentrating on it. It is when I'm emotional that it all goes out the window and I lapse into cluelessness because I can't engage the analytical part of my brain to sort it out.

I'm not so sure that the number of Aspies are increasing or if it is simply the ability to identify our type is now becoming commonplace in the school systems which is where we all end up and usually flounder because the system is so aggressively social.

Again, I just really question if it really IS on the increase, or if many of the "wackos" "oddballs" "ecentrics" and "weirdo's" from our grand parents / parents / prior generations where really by todays definition, "Aspies".

Are HFA's and AS's breeding more in the modern world? Again, I don't think so. Infact, there is a direct correlation between the upper classes, (which AS's may be entering more frequently having a desireable skill set) and LOWER numbers of offspring. As's in todays world possibly feel less inclined to have children, and persue "other interests" if having a family is not one. Also, birth control methods available prevent Aspies who would rather not have children actually NOT have any!

I also think that a lot of LFA's have been misdiagnosed as ret*d, or mentally handicapped in the past.

My sons father who I have no contact with now, I am sure now is a fellow Aspie. He has a "ret*d" uncle, who I met once, looking back on that encounter, I think he very well may have been an LFA.

We just started diagnosing the full spectrum in the last week or so, and honestly, only now are we opening the spectrum to include people like myself and my son. I think my daughter may be an Autistic Thinker too, however the key word being "impairment" does not apply to her, so I don't think I really could apply AS to her, and would NEVER get that diagnosis from the medical community for her as our understanding of ASD's are right now.

Yes Inventor you did!

You are the proof that my theory is correct. The rest just got stuck in the details and MISSED the point entirely.

Probably, because they have never experienced their true Aspie nature of the warrior, the fisher, the hunter, the Shaman... they dwell in the boredom of their mundane lives never having truly explored the nature of their abilities when it comes down to surviving in a hostile environment.

I know an Aspie who works for a company and 'hunts' computer viruses and he adores his job. He is also extremely good at it because he notices things he coworkers do not.

Why are we so fascinated by films like James Bond? Because he is the personification of the Aspie abilities, he doesn't care about the chit chat, the superficial social conatcts, he is focused on the task, notices details, is able to use and fix the tools he needs, he is creative and can adjust to the situation, he has better endurance to pain, hunger, cold, you name it.

Once my company organized a lazer shooting afternoon for its employees. When this happened, I was about 39 years old, overweight and had problems with my feet. Yet, of all the employees that participated I scored the most points and was awareded second place. The first place was won by our manager, a regular at the lazer shooting hall and the one whose idea was to organize this afternoon!

No one was happy when they realized I had won second place because I never socialized with them and was not 'one of the gang.' Yet, not being one of the gang did not stop me from noticing every detail about them. I knew their weaknesses and their habbits, knew their reactions and their way of thinking that offered me the edge I needed and that is why I won!

I think my point is clear and my theory is very correct.

And for all of you who doubt my theory, go out and do a competitive sport, a competitive game, a cmpetitive hobby. When you get good at it, you will finally see what I mean because you will keep on winning like a piece of cake!

Star

Eww, leave my parents' genitals out of it. =)

My own theory on the matter is that AS type traits was largely benefitial in a dark ages setting, and thus was favoured environmentally in those times. I dont think it started with europeans, but it was most useful culturally to them, so there is a high proportion. Non-Euro cultures somewhat bypassed that stage, and there are less aspies among them. The second highest percentage of AS occurs in the asians, who also had a similar(but smaller) stage of serfdom.

Consider that they(dark ages europeans) lived monotonous lives, with days long repetitious behavior. Miserable lives due to lack of sufficient food. Unhappy faces all around. No sophisticated external entertainments. Small social groups.

Consider the aspie. Finger stims model things like sewing. Hand motions are similar to separating chaff from wheat. Aspies love extended routine. Aspies often forget to eat and or groom, which would be a distraction from lack thereof. Aspies dont pick up on emotions, shielding them from the misery(and joy) of others. The internal mindscape of the aspie provides amusement where an NT would need to tweak, fiddle and frob external eclectia. They(aspies) can thrive in an environment like that.

Likewise, the modern trend is going back to similar behaviors. Endless keyboard work, rote physical work like in an assembly line. Scholastic endeavours often require forgoing eating properly, or tending to grooming. Environmental isolation is a feature as well.

I dont see AS and autism being of much use for a pre-iron age person. To them, hunting was much more social, while a post bronze age person could hunt alone, and really, the AS traits would be benefitial to them.

To sum up, I think that autism/aspergers hit the scene fairly late.

Fuzzy,

that is also an interesting theory... but again, the middle ages were not as boring as you picture it. Why else would stories like Robin Hood would appear in folk fair tales?

I think that again, Aspies were more the knights, who much like the samurais in Japan, would wander on their own, offering their services to one or other feual lord, king, or what ever. Remember the story about king Arthur and the knights of the round table? Each knite was his own master until king Arthur united them into a sort of an army.

I also believe that the Aspies at those ages were more the artisans who had a specific trade and who went from village to village offering their services. The trobadures, or the lonely travelers.

What seems to me unlike is that Aspies only appeared recently in the history of human beings. I think there were Aspies all along but not specifically identified as such. There were hermits and medicine men, witches or medicine women all along. I am convinced that these lonely geniuses who had a knack for collecting herbs, communicating with animals, reading the weather phenomena, etc. were the Aspies of their time...

Star

No, the middle ages were not so boring. The dark ages, on the other hand, were hardship defined. What Inventor said about just getting to what needs to be done sums up those lives too.

The thing with Adrenaline though, is that many other activities can cause adrenaline surges in the human being. For example, exercise and sport. I am not talking about top athletes who are the best of the best, I am talking about anyone who goes to the gym regularly or frequently participates in sport.

I have never heard of any corrolation between fitness fanatics or sports, and ASD children.

Also, just for clarification, are you suggesting that this Adrenaline mutates the DNA, and in such a way that it is carried over to future generations?

I think you are talking about hyperfocus, the thing that drives the intense special interests. Your earlier reference to "prey" makes more sense now.

The exact means by which anything happens is beyond understanding. All babies start as females, some become male. Our knowledge is limited. Some of the most rare records come from a journel, an aspie trait? They had a ritual, and each day wrote the temprature, and what the weather was like. Little was recorded before a hundred years ago. Most of what we think we know is less than 150 years old.

Monks who took a vow of silence an spent their time in study and copied manuscripts seem aspie. One Good Morning! would send the whole monestary into hand flapping, meltdowns, and they would lock them selves into their cells for weeks. Food and drink were left by their doors.

Strider from Lord of the Rings who lived on the move, no attachment to any place or person, but a broad map of the world. An outsider, but known to many groups. When the fight came many sought his advice.

Rare talent and knowledge were often traveling skills. Painter, stone mason, musician, storyteller.

The industrial revolution created an aspie playground. When new needs arose problems had to be overcome. It took broad mappers to see the big idea, such as Babbage and the diferental engine. It could not be built with existing technology, he never finished it.

He is credited with being the force that lead others to study Brass in a deep way, the casting process, and soon they were making better metal and better casts. His demands for precise drove the invention of machine tools. When you go looking for the best minds in any field, you find aspies.

Most science and technology was developed by amaturs. Working alone they took a deep interest in a subject, spent their lives learning it's secrets, and when that knowledge was needed, it existed.

Low functioning defines government, business, religion, all non-creative types. They do get used by smart aspies. The King funded Babbage, Gregor Mendal was a simple monk. The Patent Laws of England are old, and could be called the aspie protection act.

There is a range, some live outside the world and move through it. The stranger with no name who does not make eye contact. They are unknown to most, but known to the thinkers of the world. Passing through they stop at a book store to purchase a rare work, it is for someone who does not leave the house, and it is the one book that would be of great interest to them, and they the best to read it. Others have said they will not speak to strangers, but.. so the book become an introduction to one of the best minds.

The book seller knows depth, who would know of the work, who would want it, and says something like, Ah, they dont make paper like that anymore. My paper maker tries, but he can just not get a good finish and it is hard to print on, it would be a great thing for books if paper was made like old Tom of Deven did long years ago. He is retired now, living at his cottage just north of town.

Then he wraps the book carefully in the binder from his current papermaker, with his location, and says, pardon the babbling of an old man stranger, we might have met, but I forget faces as fast as I meet them. Such is the world, some who move about, doing service, others who stay in one place, others with great skills that should be preserved, and others trying to develop their skills. All add to the wanderer's map.

I am so Dino there was still the old system. Apprentices have a long tradition. Bright kid in a small village, taught himself to read, is bullied by the locals, but seeks the company of travelers, asks questions and learns about the world. He seems to have no future, people openly say it would be best if he drowned.

Two wanders come through, one an old man, the other people cross the road to avoid. Within the hour three leave the village. The boy will be taught, and become the scribe that records the old man's knowledge. Then he will bury the old man, and become prentice to the wanderer, then become the wanderer, then settle as an old man and take a prentice boy.

There were places for all, places of silence, reading and copying, places of knowledge and learning, knowledge to be shared. Old Tom of Devon had a boy, but when the shop burned and Tom retired he lost his place, now he runs a pitch fork in a barn, but a wanderer comes with old Tom, and he follows, to be given to a papermaker just starting and trying hard.

There always was knowledge and technology, and aspies being rare and low valued, were adopted into a tribe of their own. The skills seen here are also in old stories. Knowledge was to be recited, a word for word memory, the ability to remember music, songs, stories, was the path of a Minstrial, who became a Bard, who became a Druid.

Now you are all just sick people who need a simi-professional threpist to experiment on you with drugs and see if they can cure you. If it works they can move into making the big bucks, and make the talkshow circuit. You remind them of a TV show they saw about this guy who had something, or did something, but it was cool, and this other guy got rich, and they liked that part, because it was like football. So all they have to do is make you normal, like them, and everyone will like them and invite them to parties and stuff.