panic attack over other people tossing personal things

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I do put a lot of sentimental value on things. I still have a jacket that belonged to my grandpa that I got after he died. I wore that for a few years before it started getting so thin with holes... I put it in the cedar chest. Another time I wore a bracelet for at least a year because someone I cared about gave it to me, never took it off until it broke. My extreme attachment to things kinda weirds people out and sometimes I really wish I didn't have it so much.

I think it kinda comes from growing up hearing people say, "Man I really wish I still had that!" and "I really shouldn't have thrown that out..." I'm sure I was predisposed to it already, but hearing that didn't help. I'm just really glad my husband has been helping me overcome it.

I think this effect is closely tied to how we store and retrieve memories.

Kamiyu910, do you have an unusually good memory in certain areas?

Yes, maybe the objects represent the people. As well as my own museum, I still have a loft full of my son's toys and clothes. He's 32 years old now and he moved out long ago. We're still great friends and I'm glad he's grown up and established himself as an independent adult, but part of me still wishes he was my little boy again. Somehow, hanging onto those relics comforts me, and destroying them would feel like I was destroying my memories. I'd get him to take them all back, but he doesn't have much space where he is, and I wouldn't want him to have to throw his old stuff away, just in case he feels the same way I do about it. He's very kind-hearted and it would be hard to get him to say how he really felt. I'm sure it's all very silly of me, but there it is.

Anyway, it does no harm to leave them where they are, for now. My partner and I dream of living together one day, so maybe the time will come when I have to clear some space in the loft.

I think the general hoarding thing is quite common. I know one (probably autistic) guy whose house is crammed with stuff even worse than mine, every surface is occupied, dusting the place would be impossible, nothing is even in containers. I don't think it's sentimental attachment in his case. Executive disfunction more likely. He says people advise him to have a clear-out, but he remembers times when he's thrown things away and then had a logical need for them, and he doesn't seem able to prioritise his stuff. Occasionally I sleep on his floor, and it takes me half an hour to carefully move all the little possessions to one side so I have enough room to lie down, but I don't mind. It's the way he is. I've always admired him, he doesn't weird me out.

kamiyu910, the things you list as the kind of belongings you have sound really normal! It sounds no different from all the various kinds of things most people have. It doesn't sound like a hoarder's stuff at this current time, although you mentioned you had once had a problem with hoarding.

My understanding of hoarding is when people keep piles and piles of stuff, like old newspapers magazines even when there is no special reason or article or purpose, empty food cartons because "they might be useful one day," and other stuff that is just stacked and out of control.

All of the things you now currently own all sound like the range of things perfectly non-hoarding people own. There's nothing wrong with having both things that are used and also things that are merely of memento value, such as some childhood toys, or an item of clothing that was a departed loved one's. I have one outfit that belonged to my grandmother. I will never myself wear it, it's truly of strictly sentimental value, but I'm not getting rid of it because it's one of very few things I have of hers. There is nothing I see wrong or hoard-ish in the things you now own.

It also sounds like you have the storage of everything under control, as you say your closets etc are well organized. Jeez that's doing a lot better than most folks -- and I clean family homes for a living, so I've seen a LOT of situations! Trust me, I've seen dozens of homes and the way people deal with their stuff, and you're doing great by the sound of it.

I will be blunt and I do realize I don't have all the facts and I don't know your husband, but from what you say, I don't know why he has a problem with your stuff. I have seen every shade and degree of attachment or non attachment to belongings in the dozens and dozens of homes I've had to help keep clean and tidy, and you are way down low on the scale of "out of control" or needing to get rid of anything, at least by what's being described here.

I'm sorely tempted to tell him to leave your stuff alone in strong terms.

I do, especially involving emotions.



For reference, this is what my room used to look like:





To emphasize on how bad it was, I was also the crazy cat girl and the cats would throw up in my room and I wouldn't find it until there were ants everywhere... I would make my dad stand in my doorway with a switch to try to get me to clean my room and I still couldn't. And even in all that mess, I still knew where everything was. I never want to get to that point again, I'm too afraid. I cannot let myself fall to that. My husband has really helped me and while at first he didn't understand my attachment to some things, he did at least understand that it would take time for me to release my attachment to things. We have had fights about it (he was having issues sharing his house with someone else) but in the past couple years, we've gotten into a groove and found a balance. (it didn't help that he's OCD about being organized and clean)

Oh ok. I probably missread then. My bad. I also probably assumed that you two might be getting into the same dynamic that me and my husband have gotten into before. Something would be very important to me (not things, but situations or events or doing or not doing something) to the point where I would actually have a serious panic attack and insist on going to the ER because I literally felt like I was having a heart attack or couldn't breathe, etc and that would continue over and over with the issue. The problem was that what I needed to have happen was putting a huge strain on him and while that strain was less than the strain I felt by almost not having it go the way I needed it to, it was still a strain. Because of my intense stress and feelings I ignored the fact that he was having any actual feelings about it at all, I only saw his actions and words. Our relationship suffered and while it was both of our faults, it was because of my issue. It didn't help matters any that he came from a family that did not talk about emotions, ever, so he had no clue about how to talk to me about it or get what he wanted via discussion of feelings. Later on in other situations similar to that I finally recognized that I was focusing on my intense feelings while ignoring his because they were not as intense and urgent. Thats when I realized that I had to draw him out and find out his feelings and tell and show him that they were just as important as mine and even give in willingly and put his feelings ahead of mine this time, even though mine were more intense and painful. Once I realized that I should do that too, because he had been putting mine first for years and never talking about his or really showing them much more than telling me he loved me and being a little affectionate, it helped our relationship and it helped us to solve problems a lot easier. I sort of went to my own experiences when giving you advice because from what I had read it sounded similar. My bad.

However, that is a lesson I wish I had learned earlier in my marriage. Much earlier. I wasn't being selfish at all, I had just focused on what felt so intense and because of the intensity of it it seemed to be the path we should follow.

kamiyu, ah okay, seeing those pictures of how things used to be is quite the eye opener, yes!

In that case, I guess I can see how there might be a little bit of overcompensation on your husband's part. I can see now that it's perhaps because he knew what you were like before with the hoarding and disorganisation, that he might possibly be overly alert now to any sign of your regressing back into that state.

He has helped you to overcome it and your current state with "things" is pretty much normalized, but now he may be forever vigilant about thinking he sees "warning signs" whenever there is one item you don't want to let go of, even though your feelings about that might now be of a "normal" level that even people with no hoarding problems or history can also have about some of their belongings.

Maybe if you can reassure him verbally that even though you still have attachment to some belongings, everything's still relatively "under control" and this doesn't mean you're slipping, just that there are things that matter to you that you believe are not problematic.

There are lots of people who have never felt an over-much attachment to belongings for sentimental or memento or heirloom reasons.

Then there are lots of people who do have these sentimental feelings, but who have never particularly been out of control with it, and have never become hoarders, just people with a neat box of keepsakes or who love their photo albums or framed displays, or a prized collection of something.

Then there are people who have become hoarders and the stuff in their life truly has become out of control. You've been there and back but the important thing is the "and back" part. I think it's okay for you to still feel like there are some things that have meaning for you and that this attachment only constitutes as much of a bond as the second group of "normal non-hoarder but just sentimental about some items."

I hope that makes any sense? Your husband is probably just a bit more on the alert than he might have been without your history with this. I really hope you can get that doll back; be sure to contact them right away as they probably haven't even processed the items yet.

The doll is gone... the store was very apologetic, but these things do happen. It was a nice doll, well taken care of and realistic. I'm sure whoever has it now is happy, and perhaps it went to someone who does Reborn dolls as a form of therapy... It had the perfect face for it.

Analyzing my feelings on it... it's like I put feelings on some inanimate objects, and it feels like I'm abandoning them if I get rid of them, like a sense of betrayal. I know to most people it sounds silly and childish, but that's the best I can describe it. When Toy Story came out, I think it only further reinforced those feelings, lol. For other things, it's that whole "we might need this." attitude, or the "so n so got this for us, we can't toss it because it's a betrayal of their feelings."

OliveOilMom, it certainly took us a bit to get to where we are now. I've known my husband for 12 years, but we've only been married for 6, and it's only been in the past year or two (or so...) that we've been able to "settle" in as a family. He's not as OCD about the house and I'm not as hoarding.
But yes, BirdInFlight, he is paranoid about the house ending up a disaster zone. Less than he used to be, but still... I don't blame him. It's just hard for me after living so long in that mess...

Emotions are conceptual, - not real things. These inanimate objects are REAL things, and being so they occupy an extremely critical position in the chain of associative information that our brains use to perceive the conceptual world.

I've said before that we (many of us) perceive the real world and the conceptual world very differently due to inhibiting filters that our brains use to condition information coming from our subconscious before it can be used in conscious thought. Of course some people disagree on this.

I think that NTs are much more comfortable living and thinking entirely within a conceptual construct of reality, and generally do not develop the same types of attachments to material objects.

I think for us, we can get extremely uncomfortable when our perception lacks that real material component within our associative memory. Again, I know people have disagreed with me on this.

Very insightful olympiadis...this makes a lot of sense!

I've always felt the need to have objects to represent emotional experiences...I used to have a habit, when I was processing something very emotional, of going out for a walk along a river or creek, and I would find a smooth rock that I could hold and turn over in my hands while I was thinking about it. So it would literally become a touchstone that I could keep and hold in my hands whenever I wanted to think about it again.

I was initially skeptical that emotions could usefully be called "not real," but your post made a lot of sense to me when I changed the word "real" to "concrete." Do you think that's a valid substitution?

Kamuyu, I'm so sorry to hear that. I had really hoped things wouldn't move that fast.

Now that we know there's nothing to be done, I hope you can find a way through processing your emotions about that. I know that to a lot people reading this its "Just a doll," but for you I can see how there can be a kind of grief process that might happen here, as any loss -- be it a person who died, or an object that you loved -- is going to be something to have to feel some pain over.

As you say, someone might be really loving this doll and needing it now; it may help to stay with that thought, as it's a happy one and might help you heal. I'm so sorry this happened, though.

Going forward, I still say is there any way you could have a talk with husband? Assure him strongly that you are not sliding back into old ways, but that even for people with no hoarding tendencies at all, it's not unusual to have certain belongings that are dear to them. Even NTs can have that. For the people who feel sentimental about some of their things, it's not even an aspie/NT thing it's just a human thing. Not everyone feels it but there are plenty of people who do, even if it's just about one item.

Try to let your husband know that you love how much better you are now about hoarding, and how you love that together the two of you have solved a lot of of this problem. But that even "regular" people consult each on throwing out personal belongings, as it's only respectful, so in future could he please have a word with you before something like this happens again?

I know he already apologized so maybe this is too much on top of that, or maybe you've already had this word with him in that conversation. I just want him to know that it's not like an alcoholic with "just one drink" -- it's okay to have once been a hoarder but now just want to keep a few sentimental items that genuinely mean something to you. That's not hoarding, that's something many, many people do who don't have an issue.

Yes, I use "real" to mean material / matter.

I'm very sorry to hear about this. If I were in your shoes I'd be absolutely livid!

My parents have got rid of things that were very special to me in the past, sometimes in the face of explicit instructions. At some point they realised that this was not acceptable and was causing me a great deal of distress.

Unfortunately they've recently seemed to go the other way. Instead of sentimental things, it's practical things that I need. Twice this year, my mother has thrown away my nice shoes on the grounds that I haven't worn them in a while. Well, yes, but I need them at short notice so I need to have a worn-in pair of shoes around, and I'd rather not spend £30 on a new pair to wear once. It was so frustrating the second time because I'd explicitly explained this to her only for her to deliberately disobey me.

I grew up in almost a squalerous house with a mother and grandparents who were three boxes of crap away from a hoarders tv special so I went the opposite way when I got out of there. My mother was also so overly sentimental that she even kept her dogs kidney stones in a box. She kept old junk mail to her parents because it was to them. She kept everything and would cry at the drop of a hat. I was disgusted by it as a child, the way she felt objects had feelings and needed to be kept and valued, so I became someone who has very, very few sentimental objects. I do value sentiment but only in proportion. I think the way my mother was and the way she tried to raise me to be goes a long way toward explaining why I turned out the way I did.

She was also overly sensitive about everything in the world, and even though she was a very well respected career woman and broke several glass ceilings for women in the 70's and I'm very proud of that, she was one of the weakest people I've ever met yet she was also so manipulative and batshit crazy that I actually detest a lot of things about her. I've purposefully became someone very different from her because of that.

It took me a bit to actually understand what you were saying and I think that does make a lot of sense. I have very strong emotions (though sometimes I can completely detach myself, and I can still think logically even in the darkest depression and understand that I'm not thinking clearly) and it does help to have physical objects (or makes it worse).
Which reminds me of a meltdown I had at my work... I was told to cut out some stickers and I can't remember exactly why but a coworker said never mind and that we needed to throw the stickers away and I couldn't. I got so upset that she wanted to throw my stickers away that I worked so hard on... I don't know why but I ended up taking them home and keeping them even though they were completely useless to me... Took me at least a year to get rid of them.

I feel a bit better about it, knowing it was an accident, and thinking that the doll is helping someone else now. I'm still pissed that he decided to get rid of a bunch of stuff while I was out though. He's been stressed from doing his Master's thesis, hasn't gotten much sleep, he hasn't been thinking as clearly as he should be, but even with my brother warning him he still went ahead with getting rid of everything. Aaaand yeah, I'm still pissed he got rid of the large plastic tubs I had just got. He apologized for that too, but doggone, I spent that much money to give something to a thrift store when we're not doing so well on money in the first place?

That's probably another issue between him and me. He grew up without wanting while I grew up poor and penny pinching. He still has this mindset of "we can just get another one" with a lot of things even though we're not even making the bills at the moment. He does not do poor well. -_-