Complaints that you make people "uncomfortable"

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mpe
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29 Aug 2015, 4:53 am

EmeraldGreen wrote:
I hear you Aristophanes. I have been in the same job for more than 5 years and in this amount of time I think many of my more critical co-workers have sniffed out my differences, despite all my attempts to cover, and found me weird or somehow anti-sociable as a 'team-player' although they have let me know in a passive-aggressive sense that they will NOT cooperate with in future in any Team sense.

When this sort of thing has happened to me I've also found that it tends to be considered somehow my fault. Even though it isn't me who's refusing to co-operate.



mpe
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29 Aug 2015, 4:59 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
What I object to is this "you made me feel uncomfortable" thing. To me, the only objective way of expressing such a thing is "when you did that, I felt uncomfortable." Otherwise all the responsibility for the situation is pushed onto one of the two people involved in the problem, which seems oppressive, unless the original behaviour was pretty obviously hostile. If people are going to resolve a problem, I think it's wise for both parties to avoid passing the buck.

If the aim is to resolve the problem then something like "when you did that, I felt uncomfortable" is more useful than "you made me feel uncomfortable" anyway. Especially if the person involved is likely to react negatively to questions like 'What did I do wrong?"



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29 Aug 2015, 10:28 am

jk1 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
mpe wrote:
Maybe it's being less concerned with social structures and hierarchy which can make some people uncomfortable.


Yes it does.
If you're not operating within that system, then they don't have a "comfortable" method to manipulate you.

I agree.

Also I think complaining about you making them uncomfortable can be a way of bullying you. They may not actually feel uncomfortable but they just to want to make you feel like a weirdo. It's a way of excluding/ostracizing you.


^YES. Totally, totally, totally!! A lot of the time, it's just pure spiteful B.S. It's a way of attacking your self-esteem, especially for those of us who got this type of comment before diagnosis or even knew what Aspergers was (like me as a 20-something back in the '90s), we'd just assume that something was wrong with us or couldn't figure out what it was, so it would give us a bit of a crisis situation like ok, wtf do I do now??! 8O

Knowing my diagnosis as of 2001, and making strides to improve it, certainly helped reduce these comments. Although, I'm quite sure that I've still gotten the odd comment behind my back but not to my face. If I get one to my face again, whether firsthand or secondhand (i.e. "so-and-so says you make him/her feel uncomfortable"), I have no hesitations in calling them out on it and telling them "I'm very skeptical that so-and-so is genuinely afraid of me. What this is is passive-aggressive harassment and belittling behaviour, and I'm not playing the victim here, this is how I genuinely perceive it. Theoretically, I could pick anyone here to complain that I'm 'uncomfortable' around them, but I choose not to, because I accept people for who they are." In essence, let them know that you're taking the moral high ground, but without being arrogant or narcissistic about it.



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29 Aug 2015, 10:45 am

Yes, people get uncomfortable being around me sometimes. And yes, some feel the need to tell me that. Then again, being around people I get uncomfortable most of the time.
I used to blame myself for both. Now I tell myself it's just the way it is. Some people actually enjoy my quirks. Guess I am an acquired taste.



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29 Aug 2015, 11:19 am

mpe wrote:
EmeraldGreen wrote:
I hear you Aristophanes. I have been in the same job for more than 5 years and in this amount of time I think many of my more critical co-workers have sniffed out my differences, despite all my attempts to cover, and found me weird or somehow anti-sociable as a 'team-player' although they have let me know in a passive-aggressive sense that they will NOT cooperate with in future in any Team sense.

When this sort of thing has happened to me I've also found that it tends to be considered somehow my fault. Even though it isn't me who's refusing to co-operate.


Well I'm gonna be crass about it: If you're not sniffing their butt like a dog does then they have no need for you. If you sniff their butt for the appropriate amount of time they will sniff your butt a tiny amount in return. It's a ridiculous leftover remnant from when we lived in the wild. No one cares about how hard or well you work, they want to make sure you're emotionally tied to their success. Without that they won't trust you, and that makes them "feel uncomfortable", it's not that you're doing anything inherently wrong or hurtful, it's that you're not "on the same wavelength". People will gravitate towards people like them and push against those that are not, it's pack mentality, and aside from all the dress up of the modern world, I'd estimate 80% of the humans I've met still run on purely animal instinct alone.

My theory on high functioning autism and our "quirks", is that we're losing some of that pack mentality, the logical functions of the autistic brain are stronger than the emotional functions so we see the world in a factual way and that's why a lot of s**t doesn't make sense to us-- most other people have a more neutral brain wiring and still rely on the emotional half to make decisions. They'll make decisions that make them "feel good" not decisions that are logically sound. As for social hierarchy, it's invested in pushing people towards using their emotions since the end result is a feeling, which is easy to manipulate: Do this and get a tiny emotional reward in the form of an endorphin rush or don't and get punished and feel bad emotions from an endorphin drain. Logic doesn't work that way at all, it either makes sense or it does not, there is no brain chemistry manipulation involved.



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29 Aug 2015, 11:26 am

Jayo wrote:
(i.e. "so-and-so says you make him/her feel uncomfortable"), I have no hesitations in calling them out on it and telling them "I'm very skeptical that so-and-so is genuinely afraid of me. What this is is passive-aggressive harassment and belittling behaviour, and I'm not playing the victim here, this is how I genuinely perceive it. Theoretically, I could pick anyone here to complain that I'm 'uncomfortable' around them, but I choose not to, because I accept people for who they are."


It is aggression. Any time you present an obstacle to others manipulating you, fail to recognize someone else's imagined identity or position in hierarchy, or otherwise fail to serve their narcissism, then they will feel uncomfortable and blame you for making them feel that way.

If you're not making them feel good, then you are making them feel bad, and they will label you as "toxic" or "negative", or something else similar.
This is othering and social rejection.
It is very aggressive and nasty.



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29 Aug 2015, 11:38 am

olympiadis wrote:
If you're not making them feel good, then you are making them feel bad

Yes I've noticed how badly it can go down to be neutral in many social situations.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:07 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
If you're not making them feel good, then you are making them feel bad

Yes I've noticed how badly it can go down to be neutral in many social situations.

Again, pack mentality, you're either a part of the pack or part of another pack that's an adversary. Being a lone wolf is not an option.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:15 pm

I have made people feel uncomfortable once or twice in my life.

Once it was because of something I said to someone. I thought I was being funny but I actually really did freak her out.

The other time it was during sex. Basically I got on top and looked him right in the eye and started giggling uncontrollably. hahaha....he told me there and then that I have an evil laugh and that I am really freaking him out.

I'm actually laughing about that one whilst I'm writing.


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29 Aug 2015, 12:20 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
If you're not making them feel good, then you are making them feel bad

Yes I've noticed how badly it can go down to be neutral in many social situations.

Again, pack mentality, you're either a part of the pack or part of another pack that's an adversary. Being a lone wolf is not an option.

Yup. That's why I think it's important to stay away from homogenous groups as far as reasonably practicable. I feel sorry for any free-thinking person who has little choice but to hang out with those types.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:30 pm

olympiadis wrote:
Jayo wrote:
(i.e. "so-and-so says you make him/her feel uncomfortable"), I have no hesitations in calling them out on it and telling them "I'm very skeptical that so-and-so is genuinely afraid of me. What this is is passive-aggressive harassment and belittling behaviour, and I'm not playing the victim here, this is how I genuinely perceive it. Theoretically, I could pick anyone here to complain that I'm 'uncomfortable' around them, but I choose not to, because I accept people for who they are."


It is aggression. Any time you present an obstacle to others manipulating you, fail to recognize someone else's imagined identity or position in hierarchy, or otherwise fail to serve their narcissism, then they will feel uncomfortable and blame you for making them feel that way.

If you're not making them feel good, then you are making them feel bad, and they will label you as "toxic" or "negative", or something else similar.
This is othering and social rejection.
It is very aggressive and nasty.


Yes. Exactly.

I've been told before that people found me intimidating. I think because they saw me as unapproachable and they didn't know how to manipulate me. On the other hand when people do seem to like me and find me approachable, I feel like they try to manipulate me a lot more and sometimes they are successful at it. I would rather have those people feel a bit uncomfortable around me so they keep their distance.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:32 pm

babybird wrote:
I have made people feel uncomfortable once or twice in my life.

Once it was because of something I said to someone. I thought I was being funny but I actually really did freak her out.

The other time it was during sex. Basically I got on top and looked him right in the eye and started giggling uncontrollably. hahaha....he told me there and then that I have an evil laugh and that I am really freaking him out.

I'm actually laughing about that one whilst I'm writing.


:pale:
Well that doesn't sound like an enjoyable time.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:34 pm

babybird wrote:
I have made people feel uncomfortable once or twice in my life.

Once it was because of something I said to someone. I thought I was being funny but I actually really did freak her out.

The other time it was during sex. Basically I got on top and looked him right in the eye and started giggling uncontrollably. hahaha....he told me there and then that I have an evil laugh and that I am really freaking him out.

I'm actually laughing about that one whilst I'm writing.


Lol, Ive been told that its a bad time to get a fit of the giggles ...communicates all sorts of unintended stuff.

The delayed realisation that I've made someone uncomfortable in some way, because they now avoid me, is my usual, or I receive the feedback 'just don't say weird things around people'.



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29 Aug 2015, 12:42 pm

babybird wrote:
The other time it was during sex. Basically I got on top and looked him right in the eye and started giggling uncontrollably. hahaha....he told me there and then that I have an evil laugh and that I am really freaking him out.

Weird boner. :?



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30 Aug 2015, 2:04 am

mpe wrote:
EmeraldGreen wrote:
I hear you Aristophanes. I have been in the same job for more than 5 years and in this amount of time I think many of my more critical co-workers have sniffed out my differences, despite all my attempts to cover, and found me weird or somehow anti-sociable as a 'team-player' although they have let me know in a passive-aggressive sense that they will NOT cooperate with in future in any Team sense.

When this sort of thing has happened to me I've also found that it tends to be considered somehow my fault. Even though it isn't me who's refusing to co-operate.


Exactly! Same thing happened to me at my workplace - it was considered "your problem" and I was blamed for not being a "team player"!



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30 Aug 2015, 2:29 am

Aristophanes wrote:
mpe wrote:
EmeraldGreen wrote:
I hear you Aristophanes. I have been in the same job for more than 5 years and in this amount of time I think many of my more critical co-workers have sniffed out my differences, despite all my attempts to cover, and found me weird or somehow anti-sociable as a 'team-player' although they have let me know in a passive-aggressive sense that they will NOT cooperate with in future in any Team sense.

When this sort of thing has happened to me I've also found that it tends to be considered somehow my fault. Even though it isn't me who's refusing to co-operate.


Well I'm gonna be crass about it: If you're not sniffing their butt like a dog does then they have no need for you. If you sniff their butt for the appropriate amount of time they will sniff your butt a tiny amount in return. It's a ridiculous leftover remnant from when we lived in the wild. No one cares about how hard or well you work, they want to make sure you're emotionally tied to their success. Without that they won't trust you, and that makes them "feel uncomfortable", it's not that you're doing anything inherently wrong or hurtful, it's that you're not "on the same wavelength". People will gravitate towards people like them and push against those that are not, it's pack mentality, and aside from all the dress up of the modern world, I'd estimate 80% of the humans I've met still run on purely animal instinct alone.

My theory on high functioning autism and our "quirks", is that we're losing some of that pack mentality, the logical functions of the autistic brain are stronger than the emotional functions so we see the world in a factual way and that's why a lot of s**t doesn't make sense to us-- most other people have a more neutral brain wiring and still rely on the emotional half to make decisions. They'll make decisions that make them "feel good" not decisions that are logically sound. As for social hierarchy, it's invested in pushing people towards using their emotions since the end result is a feeling, which is easy to manipulate: Do this and get a tiny emotional reward in the form of an endorphin rush or don't and get punished and feel bad emotions from an endorphin drain. Logic doesn't work that way at all, it either makes sense or it does not, there is no brain chemistry manipulation involved.


My god, that is awesome! I never thought of it that way before (but I am new to my diagnosis, so I'm still learning. Yeah - why are we made to feel defective when maybe instead we're the more evolved ones? No wonder this whole world seems so insane to me!! !! ! Religion, ideology, politics, international relations, war... to say nothing of human relationships!

Does this relate to Star Trek somehow? Wasn't Spock or one of those guys rather Aspergery and logical (and more evolved)? I never watched it, but I'm thinking maybe I'll start watching the original series...