Psychiatrist writes about his views on Autism/Neurodiversity

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League_Girl
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21 Oct 2015, 2:19 pm

GodzillaWoman wrote:

I wonder, too, if the parents and autistic advocates have differing definitions of "cure." Some parents may simply mean "not hurting themselves or others," "not destroying the house," or "able to communicate." This could possibly be accomplished through much drastic means. As far as they are concerned, people like us are already "cured" or not in need of a cure.


There is. A cure means to some parents that their kids learn to talk and take care of themselves and have conversations and be independent. That is what all parents want for their kids, even parents of NT kids. Even parents of severely autistic kids want them to do that too.

I have even heard of some people think Temple Grandin is cured.


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21 Oct 2015, 2:26 pm

iliketrees wrote:
Does seem to be implied, though, even if not outright stated.


Asperger's is included in the studies about autistic outcomes:
Quote:
Six studies have assessed what percent of adult autistics have a job – they find 22%, 21%, 31%, 4%, 4%, and 4%. The two that found rates in the twenties limited themselves to high-IQ autistics and so are unrepresentative.

Four studies assessed institutionalization rates among adult autistics, although these “institutions” form a very heterogenous category from homey group houses to super-intense locked hospitals. These studies find 35%, 43%, 48%, and 53% of adult autistics to be instutitionalized.

A few studies looked at other outcomes. Two investigated what percent of adult autistics still lived with their parents. Both estimated about 50%. This is in addition to the 40% or so who are institutionalized, so only about 10% of adult autistics live independently.

One study investigated how many autistics have at least one friend and found it was just under 50%.

I cannot find any studies on adults with autism per se, but adults with Aspergers (recently collapsed into the autism diagnosis) are ten times more likely to be suicidal than other adults.

I realize this seems extreme [2], but I think it really puts into perspective the difference between the conventional “shy person who likes trains” view of autism, and what psychiatrists and scientists really mean when they talk about an autism diagnosis.

HFA/Asperger's are autism-diagnoses.


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21 Oct 2015, 2:32 pm

League_Girl wrote:
GodzillaWoman wrote:

I wonder, too, if the parents and autistic advocates have differing definitions of "cure." Some parents may simply mean "not hurting themselves or others," "not destroying the house," or "able to communicate." This could possibly be accomplished through much drastic means. As far as they are concerned, people like us are already "cured" or not in need of a cure.


There is. A cure means to some parents that their kids learn to talk and take care of themselves and have conversations and be independent. That is what all parents want for their kids, even parents of NT kids. Even parents of severely autistic kids want them to do that too.


This. All I want is for my son to talk and communicate, so that he can advocate for himself, and / or alert helpful individuals if he needs or wants anything, or if someone is being mean towards him. I don't care if he never went to Harvard or West Point (which is where I was hoping he'd end up before his diagnosis), but I DO want him to live independently, have a job, make a living, and care and protect himself under any and all circumstances. He is so helpless and vulnerable that it keeps me up at night worrying about how I cannot protect him forever. As he goes to school now, and I have NO idea what goes on there, aside from what is written in his home reports, I can't even protect him NOW if something were happening at school that was not brought to my notice.

I am not looking for a cure that will magically turn him into an NT. ALL I am looking for is a special pill that will allow him to talk, communicate, protect and care for himself. I would sell my soul to Satan and spend the rest of Eternity in Hell if that would make these things happen for him.

This is my idea of a "cure" for the limitations imposed on him by his moderate / severe autism.


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Eloa
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21 Oct 2015, 2:38 pm

League_Girl wrote:
GodzillaWoman wrote:

I wonder, too, if the parents and autistic advocates have differing definitions of "cure." Some parents may simply mean "not hurting themselves or others," "not destroying the house," or "able to communicate." This could possibly be accomplished through much drastic means. As far as they are concerned, people like us are already "cured" or not in need of a cure.


There is. A cure means to some parents that their kids learn to talk and take care of themselves and have conversations and be independent. That is what all parents want for their kids, even parents of NT kids. Even parents of severely autistic kids want them to do that too.

I have even heard of some people think Temple Grandin is cured.


When LFA means autism with intellectual disability and the intellectual disability affects the severity of autistic symptoms, would "cure" than mean to cure the intellectual disability first?
This is what I wonder.
Also non-autistic people with intellectual disability (depending on degree) do self-harm, cannot talk, are unable to take care of themselves.


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ASPickle
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21 Oct 2015, 2:50 pm

What a piece of garbage. I couldn't finish.

It'd be nice if he used actual statistics instead of only the "doom and gloom" ones... or if he even acknowledged that his work with the worst case scenarios has tainted his vision so badly that he ignores non-institutionalized Autistics as badly as he claims we ignore those Autistics he works with.

Again, being anti-cure or pro-neurodiversity doesn't mean we assume everything is rosey. Or that the disability will disappear when the social part of social disability is eliminated. It means acknowledging the very real impacts that being Autistic has and trying to manage those concerns to provide the best life possible for Autistics. If that's the "cure" he's looking for, then so be it.

After reading the parts about his own sensitivities and the mentions about the "HFA" Autistic friends in his life, all I can think is that he's an Uncle Tom type.

Also, did it bother anyone else that there was no section IV?


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21 Oct 2015, 3:26 pm

League_Girl wrote:
GodzillaWoman wrote:

I wonder, too, if the parents and autistic advocates have differing definitions of "cure." Some parents may simply mean "not hurting themselves or others," "not destroying the house," or "able to communicate." This could possibly be accomplished through much drastic means. As far as they are concerned, people like us are already "cured" or not in need of a cure.


There is. A cure means to some parents that their kids learn to talk and take care of themselves and have conversations and be independent. That is what all parents want for their kids, even parents of NT kids. Even parents of severely autistic kids want them to do that too.

I have even heard of some people think Temple Grandin is cured.


Yes but by definition a cure is when you remove a disorder/condition, disease/illness from someone.


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21 Oct 2015, 3:36 pm

HisMom wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
GodzillaWoman wrote:

I wonder, too, if the parents and autistic advocates have differing definitions of "cure." Some parents may simply mean "not hurting themselves or others," "not destroying the house," or "able to communicate." This could possibly be accomplished through much drastic means. As far as they are concerned, people like us are already "cured" or not in need of a cure.


There is. A cure means to some parents that their kids learn to talk and take care of themselves and have conversations and be independent. That is what all parents want for their kids, even parents of NT kids. Even parents of severely autistic kids want them to do that too.


This. All I want is for my son to talk and communicate, so that he can advocate for himself, and / or alert helpful individuals if he needs or wants anything, or if someone is being mean towards him. I don't care if he never went to Harvard or West Point (which is where I was hoping he'd end up before his diagnosis), but I DO want him to live independently, have a job, make a living, and care and protect himself under any and all circumstances. He is so helpless and vulnerable that it keeps me up at night worrying about how I cannot protect him forever. As he goes to school now, and I have NO idea what goes on there, aside from what is written in his home reports, I can't even protect him NOW if something were happening at school that was not brought to my notice.

I am not looking for a cure that will magically turn him into an NT. ALL I am looking for is a special pill that will allow him to talk, communicate, protect and care for himself. I would sell my soul to Satan and spend the rest of Eternity in Hell if that would make these things happen for him.

This is my idea of a "cure" for the limitations imposed on him by his moderate / severe autism.


And what if he doesn't end up being able to communicate by talking? would you be horrified at the prospect of him using a different medium of communication?

Most humans cannot care and protect themselves under any and all circumstances, so at least keep your expectations of him within the humanely possible range.


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