"Friends" abusing autistics reported to be huge problem

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Varelse
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24 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

BenReilly wrote:
I feel utterly taken advantage of and ripped off. I am the lowest paid person in my building and he chooses to come to me. He saw I was a sap and a nice person and I don't think he will pay me tomorrow. Tomorrow morning if he says he cannot pay me that day I am going to tell him I am going to my manager, not least at first he was trying to get it out of petty cash - which could have lost me my job.

What are your thoughts? I feel such a damn fool like I'm a target, a bloody moron.


You're not a moron. You're a helpful, openminded and trusting person who has just learned a painful lesson.This is unlikely to be the only time this guy has imposed on someone. It looks as if he's got the system down pretty well. Your plan for handling this situation is solid - please try not to call yourself ugly names because someone else has behaved like a jerk. Shame (that of the victim) is one thing exploiters count on, to keep doing this kind of thing and get away without penalty.



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24 Nov 2015, 2:38 pm

Purrbaby wrote:
I'm sorry this happened to you BenReilly. I would be fuming inside. You should definitely raise this issue with management, the guy seems to be a pathological liar (or have some other issue). Not really an ideal employee... Who knows what else he's going to try to take advantage of while he's there. If I were a manager I'd want to know that kind of thing so I can 'keep an eye on him'

--
Also wanted to say sometimes these kind of terrible things in the article occur because the autistic person is not aware they are being taken advantage of (social naïveté). But then I do wonder if HFA's are aware of some of the bad behaviour of their 'friends' and put up with it because we're so desperate to actually have a friend and have people like and accept us. I'm talking about lesser examples of bad friendship behaviour here - not the stuff that's in the article. Then again sometimes I AM the bad friend (not returning texts etc), because I'm unaware of certain conventions /unable to cope with so much interaction. Ok I'm rambling now... But friendship is complex



I was so desperate for friends I did let them treat me bad and let them pressure me into giving them some of my things and I also used to give other kids my things as a way to get them to play with me because I got that idea from my speech therapist who always handed out speech bucks for good behavior and you trade them in for prizes. I was all of a sudden very nice because I used my Happy Meal toys to buy play mates. But it didn't always work if they didn't want a "boy toy" I called it so therefore I couldn't buy someone to play with. I also got egged into doing things and I always would get upset if I was labeled as mean. I didn't know then this was all manipulation and did the teachers care? No. Instead it was always my fault. Hey I knew it was wrong but I was so desperate to be liked and accepted the adults didn't care but my mom understood but I was seen as being passive. But punishing me for being desperate to be liked and accepted sure didn't work. Instead I always saw myself as the victim. I did eventually learn that these are not your true friends and f**k them if they treat you this way, get rid of them. Maybe that was the adults attempt to teach me this but I had to learn from online by reading and when I was older instead of when I was only 12 or 11. Now I am immune to being called mean when I refuse to do something wrong or participate in some bullying or drama. I view it as them throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their way. :lol:


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Last edited by League_Girl on 24 Nov 2015, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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24 Nov 2015, 2:42 pm

Varelse wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I do think some of the problems we have these days are the result of failing to recognize anymore that certain people are just evil overall (Dispite the good sides most of them have) that we do not recognize certain actions are just hideous, there is no grey area or mixed good and bad thing about the action, it just bad and the person or action just needs to dealt with. You should start with that basic understanding then look at the mitigating circumstances and meet out the consequences based on that.

We just can't get anything right, we have gone from just looking at the action, deciding the punishment based on deciding bad action means bad person to an endless fascination with why. The "I don't approve of the action" often seems like an obligatory afterthought, definitely not the main focus of discussion. The other extreme caused a lot of problems. The current way of thinking is a problem and causing problems.


I don't see anything wrong with your thinking. You have made several valid points. You are correct to assert that many people simply either do not care about, or actually enjoy the fact that they are causing pain and humiliation to someone who is not well equipped to protect themselves. This is a serious problem that ultimately degrades the community that doesn't confront it and deal with it appropriately. Nor, in my opinion, are you in any way wrong in observing that we aren't getting this right. It's going to take continual work to do so, and we need to muster the will.

Where I differ from you, is in the assumption that we can know just from a pattern of unacceptable, antisocial acts, that a person is evil. I think we are better off learning the various causes of this behaviour, because prevention or attenuation can only be effected if the root cause is addressed. Thus, ignorant or desperate people can be enlightened, and sadists and psychopaths can be confronted and convinced to stop.


Viva la difference.
I just feel that the all the person is just evil thinking and the there must be some reason for that person to be like that and therefore fixable thinking for every situation is wrong. Usually it is somewhere in between and every case is different. Evil is not science, it is a judgement call. Nice politically correct wording, safe spaces etc have it's place but sometimes black and white thinking, our natural way is needed to.


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24 Nov 2015, 2:47 pm

BenReilly wrote:
I have to say that I have fallen victim to this this week. This guy who has been temping at my work chose to come and see me on reception, seemed like he was friendly but he started to ask to borrow money. First he borrowed some from Petty Cash to get to a surgery he was seeing patients at, and this was signed off by the boss. Then he gave the money back and and then he did it again twice. On those other occasions the boss wasn't informed and the money was paid back a few days later. On one occasion I padded it out because it was 30 quid and I couldn't justify the company lending him that kind of transport costs. We got that back too.

On Monday night he said that his wife was coming to pick him up from work in the car and that she had had the red light come on saying she needed fuel. He had a long way to drive with her back home and said he hadn't got a bank card with him and she had left without her purse assuming he had money to refill. He wanted to borrow company funds. I said no way, he'd have to ask my boss because this was not a company expense. He pleaded with me and I insisted that if I lent him the money I'd need it back today. Well this morning I asked for it straight away he said he wouldn't have it till 2:30 that afternoon that the money would be put in his account by his wife then. Then he went off to work in the community at 2:30 at a surgery and he had KNOWN all day he would be doing that.

I feel utterly taken advantage of and ripped off. I am the lowest paid person in my building and he chooses to come to me. He saw I was a sap and a nice person and I don't think he will pay me tomorrow. Tomorrow morning if he says he cannot pay me that day I am going to tell him I am going to my manager, not least at first he was trying to get it out of petty cash - which could have lost me my job.

What are your thoughts? I feel such a damn fool like I'm a target, a bloody moron.


So he has borrowed money and given it back and this time he hasn't given it back?

I would say you are not a fool because how were you supposed to know he wouldn't pay it back this time. I live by the rule that if I loan you money and it was difficult to give it back or you don't pay it back or it took you years or months to get it, I don't loan to you again so you would have to go get it from someone else. Not worth the hassle unless I want to give the money than loaning but I am not obligated to give it.


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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


ASPartOfMe
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24 Nov 2015, 2:51 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Purrbaby wrote:
I'm sorry this happened to you BenReilly. I would be fuming inside. You should definitely raise this issue with management, the guy seems to be a pathological liar (or have some other issue). Not really an ideal employee... Who knows what else he's going to try to take advantage of while he's there. If I were a manager I'd want to know that kind of thing so I can 'keep an eye on him'

--
Also wanted to say sometimes these kind of terrible things in the article occur because the autistic person is not aware they are being taken advantage of (social naïveté). But then I do wonder if HFA's are aware of some of the bad behaviour of their 'friends' and put up with it because we're so desperate to actually have a friend and have people like and accept us. I'm talking about lesser examples of bad friendship behaviour here - not the stuff that's in the article. Then again sometimes I AM the bad friend (not returning texts etc), because I'm unaware of certain conventions /unable to cope with so much interaction. Ok I'm rambling now... But friendship is complex




I was so desperate for friends I did let them treat me bad and let them pressure me into giving them some of my things and I also used to give other kids my things as a way to get them to play with me because I got that idea from my speech therapist who always handed out speech bucks for good behavior and you trade them in for prizes. I was all of a sudden very nice because I used my Happy Meal toys to buy play mates. But it didn't always work if they didn't want a "boy toy" I called it so therefore I couldn't buy someone to play with. I also got egged into doing things and I always would get upset if I was labeled as mean. I didn't know then this was all manipulation and did the teachers care? No. Instead if was always my fault. Hey I knew it was wrong but I was so desperate to be liked and accepted the adults didn't care but my mom understood but I was seen as being passive. But punishing me for being desperate to be liked and accepted sure didn't work. Instead I always saw myself as the victim. I did eventually learn that these are not your true friends and f**k them if they treat you this way, get rid of them. Maybe that was the adults attempt to teach me this but I had to learn from online by reading and when I was older instead of when I was only 12 or 11. Now I am immune to being called mean when I refuse to do something wrong or participate in some bullying or drama. I view t as them throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their way. :lol:


As autistics we always need to be mindful that we are vulnerable to manipulation. But overdoing it makes us cynical, paranoid and just nasty. I have been minuplatated for bieng to trusting and overly paranoid more often and both situations have ended up badly more times then I care to remember. I still have not figured this out yet. But knowing about autism has made it defiantly less bad and easier to get over it when I do screw up.


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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


BenReilly
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24 Nov 2015, 2:59 pm

I think people see I care and exploit that. I appreciate the responses and advice Ive had on here. I feel like dumping other people entirely. I need to put up walls at least in the real world. I sometimes tink the two or three who bully me at work do it because they can smell the other on me. They can sense Im not like them and then I get the tricks and outright insults from others. The horrible thing is that I know while it is happening. I think they think they are cleverer than they are. I notice it all I just cant express whar Im feeling because I fear an outburst will lose me my job. And two seconds after I gave him the cash I asked for it back. Logical questions that saw through his lies came too late.



Varelse
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25 Nov 2015, 10:27 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Varelse wrote:
I just feel that the all the person is just evil thinking and the there must be some reason for that person to be like that and therefore fixable thinking for every situation is wrong. Usually it is somewhere in between and every case is different. Evil is not science, it is a judgement call. Nice politically correct wording, safe spaces etc have it's place but sometimes black and white thinking, our natural way is needed to.


Yes, I totally agree, and even if I don't always practice this kind of thinking myself, I so see the point of it.



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25 Nov 2015, 12:19 pm

ASPartOfMe- Thanks for posting this! This was an excellent report! It's very readable and worth looking at directly: http://www.wirral.autistic.org/

I will probably cite this in my thesis project. I WISH I could tell you guys what I found in my survey, but I can't yet. Some things I found directly apply to this. Five more days and I can start analyzing the data!