What do you think it means if your therapist says he's not

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I get you, Skibum, I believe.

I honestly hope you feel that I do.

I wish there was a way, even during your child phase, where you could save yourself from harm, yet remain in the child phase. And not have to use the adult strategies.

I think some people do creative things when they are in the child phase. Some people do great things which could not be accomplished should they be restrained by the dictates of society, by having to employ adult strategies.

But, for the people around the person in the child phase, it's difficult. They don't know what to make of it. Is there a way for you, while you're in the child phase, to explain this to those around you? I believe people will probably be more accepting of people in different states should they be provided with some sort of explanation for it. The fear is that these people have difficulty comprehending it.

And then there's the fear that you won't ever come out of it.

It's probable that I would understand you better should I actually meet you in person.

Thank you so much Waterfalls.
You are so kind and so wise.

I understand what you mean about seeing his perspective and I totally appreciate that. I guess I am a little frustrated because I am always the one who has to rise up and see and understand everyone else's perspective. I seem to do that all day every day and I don't mind it. I think it takes maturity to do it and my intellectual side is always glad to do it and always ready to learn and see and be compassionate to others. I think what is very difficult though is that I have spent a lifetime hiding the child side. And as much as I am consonantly having to see everyone else's perspective and as much as I am willing to always do that because I very much believe in that and I think it is very important, no one is ever willing to allow my child side to come into view. My brother does the best but even he can't see it and accept it in full. My husband tries but it's really hard for him. No one else on the planet is even willing to see it. They think it's a beautiful thing when they hear about it but if they see it all of a sudden it's bad and everything must be done to get rid of it. I think that is a huge and very dangerous double standard which could end up causing me so much despair I could end up doing something drastic. I don't know that I every would but with the constant despair of non acceptance, non tolerance and abandonment, it gets difficult especially when I have to overcome all that and constantly rise up and see and understand and accept everyone else's perspective all the time and constantly accept and understand how they can tolerate me and be kind and compassionate and understanding and sensitive to them about their intolerance of me.

And I understand what you are saying about the sensory issues. Yeah, it does help when I am not as stressed. But the difference is not that great for me. I am only speaking for myself. Maybe others have had much greater success ar curing their sensory sensitivities. If any of you have, please give us your suggestions. I have tried for almost 50 years, many different methods from ear devices to meditation to physical therapies, deep breathing, remember, I also have Misophonia, so I have tried a lot of things. Some things do help it's kind of like when you are trying to swim from England to New York. Swim technique will get you much farther much more efficiently but will you really ever get there and will adding another ten miles to your cross Atlantic swim really make a difference or will you just drown or die of hypothermia in a different spot but just as far away from your destination. So yeah, relaxing makes a difference but I have found that difference to just bearing the beatings better for a little longer. They are still beatings and still have the same affect.

But really, if anyone has found a way to overcome sensory overload, please share. That would be tremendous. But Waterfalls, I do get what you are saying. And you are right, there are things that make it a little better. And as much of those things as I can employ, I will. But what I have found really works best is to to remove myself from the situation or to get it to stop.

And

I comprehend things better when I actually see things.

If I just see things written, I don't usually comprehend as well.

I'm sorry I wasn't of help.

Possible. And I you. I think that would be true for all of us. But any questions you have, I am happy to answer to the best of my ability.

In this particular situation with this therapist, I think the problem is that he does not think he is capable of helping. He is very capable and has been extremely helpful. He has to change his understanding of himself and expand his understanding and horizons to see that help comes in many different forms. And the help he gives without realizing it is far more powerful and effective than the help he thinks he is supposed to give based on his academic knowledge of how to help people. What he does not realize is that he can achieve the same goals and much more if he helps in an unconventional way. I think he has the ability to learn this so I don't want to leave him. He has shown much ability to learn. I don't want someone who's only agenda is to put me in a box that I could never fit into and in order to do that will destroy one of the most beautiful and endearing and precious gifts of my personality and character.

And yes, I will write to him.

I totally understand that Kraftie. It makes total sense. And you are helpful. You are my friend. That is a great help.

My therapist knows a good amount of information on autism (At least for a neurotypical).. She helps me a-lot in understanding neurotypicals.. Though I still never understanding lying not to hurt someone's feelings.

I am really glad your therapist is helping you. That is great.

Lying not to hurt someone's feelings is a tough one to understand. I understand it and I have actually done it. What happens is that people think that if they say the truth about some things to the person it, meaning the truth of the matter, will make the person feel really hurt. So because they don't want the person to feel hurt, they say a lie that they don't think will make the person feel hurt. The problem is that often times the lie hurts worse because it's a lie. So if the person finds out you lied than it can sometimes hurt more.

The trick is learning how to say the truth in a way that is full of love and compassion so that the person feels the love and compassion even if the truth part hurts. The love and compassion they feel will make up for that if it's real. But love and compassion have to be real. Lots of people can feel when they are not. You can fool some people but not everyone and then if you fool them that's just another lie. So it's best if it's real. If the person feels supported and really loved, you can tell them truthful things even if they hurt and are hard to hear. If the don't feel loved, they might just get hurt and then get upset. So that is why lots of people will say a little lie instead. Having real love and compassion and tact can be hard and it takes work sometimes to be able to get there. It's much easier just to lie. That is why they do it.

I think one of the issues is that age old issue of people thinking they always know what is best for us. Like Waterfalls said, we think differently. We process differently. And I think that sometimes therapists say things without thinking how it will affect their patients. Of course they are only human so we have to forgive them, but I would never be forgiven if I told a swimming or skiing student the equivalent. And I know that when I am truly not qualified to help a student, I say, "I understand what you are trying to accomplish. I don't know how to get you to that level. I don't feel right taking your money if I don't know how to get you there. If you want me to continue to work with you I promise, I will figure it out and make sure that you are successful and I will not give up on you. But since you are paying me, I need to give you that choice. I can have someone else come in and help or pass you off to someone else completely but you have the choice." I would never tell someone who is apparently in the middle of a crisis, I am not equipped to help you, I am passing you off, especially when no definite or concrete goals were ever established to begin with. And I understand it was probably a mistake for him to say what he said. I am sure we will work it all out. I really like him very much and have him extremely helpful and good and I don't want to be passed off to anyone else. He was most likely feeling helpless and overwhelmed at me.

But back to the topic of this post. I think a bit problem is that people have a set idea of what they want to accomplish with us. I had one therapist tell me that phrase that a lot of us hate, "I want you to think of yourself as a person with Autism rather than an Autistic person." The same therapist also told me that rather than stating my honest opinion about something like rather than saying, I don't like your hat, I should make a comment as if I liked it. My thought was, that makes no sense at all. If I don't want the person to think I am rude, why do I have to say anything at all? But the therapist insisted that rather than say nothing I should make a ridiculous comment which actually implies the opposite of what I am really thinking. The same therapist also told me that I should learn to tune out sensory issues like everyone else does and that I am really high functioning so I am not really on the Spectrum. I just have a couple of Autistic traits like being a little socially awkward that we can fix.

Therapists like that have an agenda based on what they think you should be. It has nothing to do with who you really are and what your real life is like and what your real struggles are and what your real capabilities are. So they have a box they have to put you in so that they can add you to their belt notches of successes. What I appreciate about the therapist I have now is that more than any other I have ever met, he is willing to learn. He knows he is not the end all expert on Autism and he wants to learn and he loves that I teach him about my experience. But I think that in school they are trained to be the in the role of expert. They are taught that they have boxes that people have to fit into and so I think that even though he is a very good person and very willing to understand, that box mentality has been ingrained into him so now that I don't fit in any boxes at all he does not know what to do and he thinks he can't help.

The thing is that I don't know that there is a therapist who is capable of helping me more. I think once he gains his confidence and understands that he can step out of the box, he will realize that he is extremely capable and what he will learn from the experience will be priceless and revolutionary to the treatment of other Aspies who are affected as deeply by this issue as I am.

I don't know if the way that I am affected by this issue is the same way as many of you. I know that many of you talk a lot about your child like minds in terms of playing with toys, which I think is awesome. I would be very interested to know more about those of you who have this and how it affects how you think and feel and process things and understand things.

I have also extensively looked for writings and documentaries about this phenomenon on the internet and I have found nothing at all of any significance. The most I have found that are of any informational value are posts that we have written ourselves here. I am not saying that there is nothing of value on this subject out there, I am only saying that I have looked for years and have not found anything. So maybe I looked in the wrong places.

But as far as therapists being familiar with this issue, it's probably not common and they just don't know what to do with it. I think they think it needs to be cure. I disagree. I don't want it gone. I don't want it cured. I just want people to accept me for who I am and allow me to be who I am and to be able to contribute in the beautiful and unique ways that I am able to.

I think it's important for therapists to stop assuming that what they have been taught is the end all. They have to be willing to learn from us about who we are and how we function. I don't think therapy has to be about fixing people to make them what you think they should be. Therapy should be about getting to know people and working with them so that they can be who they are and be secure and functioning and successful as who they are.

If any therapist told me that, that person would be fired immediately.

As far as passing or acting neurotypical the therapist and his client needs to understand this is to be used purely as strategy. The therapist and client must understand the huge cost in exhaustion, depression, and dissociation that can result from constantly passing constantly over an extended period. Most the baby boomer autistics here seem to understand this, but many younger people don't and think the cause of their depression etc is that they are flawed.

It is sad but realistic to say that despite the fact we are starting 2016 that in many locations the only help autistics, especiialy older ones and especially female ones can get is forums like this. The good news is that in the last couple of years a lot of research is starting to go into researching female autism but that research is going to take time and it is going to even more time for that knowledge to trickle down to clinicians. There still is precious little research going on with adults.

skibum, I think what you are describing, about your feelings of abandonment, is relating to what is called "psychodynamic" therapy. You have developed transference, a symbolic emotional reaction to your therapist that mirrors some other relationships that were important in your childhood.

If your therapist does not have training in that modality, then I can see why he says he is not equipped to work with you. You are saying he should be able to, but he simply may not have been trained that way. Maybe with consultation he can help you with those feelings, but maybe not.

I also wonder what you did in your childlike regression that so alarmed him as to think he couldn't deal with you? Are we talking tears, baby talk, hitting yourself, or what?

Please tell your therapist what you have told us about this recurring abandonment theme in your life. It's important. Even if he feels unequipped to deal with it, the two of you should talk about it, and perhaps it actually would benefit you to work with someone who has the right experience once the issue is on the table.

I sat in a really comfortable corner of the floor and cried. I was also not able to speak until almost an hour in and when I did manage to speak it was very infantile. Before that I looked at and touched a lot of textured things in the office.

He was trying to talk to me but from his chair he was really far away and I could not make out what he was saying and he could not hear me either so I asked that he sit on the floor if he wanted to talk to me. He knelt on the floor and then I was able to hear him and he was able to hear me.

If he does not have the training in that sort of thing that's fine. He does not have to pass me off to another therapist. We never have to revisit that side of me again if he does not know what to do with it. I am sure that side of me will never show up at his office again anyway because the level of trust has changed.

I'm sorry. You are right, and it is unfair, and it is exhausting to always have to be working to accommodate others, and not get what you need in return.

I will write something I think some people will argue with then. I think that it's possible that maybe you can't really do good therapy for an adult on the spectrum who has had to learn to live in a world of normal people without caring deeply, allowing yourself to care deeply, I think some of us on the spectrum could not tolerate a therapist who goes through the motions becaus it does not seem genuine and honest, and I think possibly that if we need such a high level of genuine and almost raw honesty, sometimes it will come out wrong despite good effort and that is possibly an inevitable price that must be paid for needing a high degree of commitment and genuineness and honesty. I also think it may not be the child side of you (and please don't stop being you!) that might have been confusing or overwhelming, therapists aren't trained or used to shutting down and being unable to communicate as a normal response to extreme emotion, it is likely foreign and frightening as a way of existing to him. And I think sometimes what is different is not seen at all and that can be worse than being seen and judged. I hope things work out with your therapist. You seem to like him. But one thing I know....if he has not seen someone similar to you before and he works with you, you may be able to teach him how to help....if he hasn't done this though....he will make mistakes along the way. I hope he will correct them too.....but he will make mistakes that is inevitable.

You could mention how you posted because you needed support with not feeling understood (is that correct) and that it helped (I hope) to know people could.....Thst while you might seem weird or alarming at times to him or anyone, that doesn't mean you don't make sense. I hope you feel most of us are understanding you some? You could let him know this and that it's important to you. Let him know you make sense here with us.....

I didn't mean it's easy about the sensory issues. I know you are struggling. I just meant like that I am really bothered by glaring bright light all the time, but might enjoy music I choose at my chosen volume and feel agitated by the noise leaking from someone's earbuds, and more so if I'm anxious, but also in bright light I'm much more bothered by noise. This might not relate to you but as an example I felt upset at the dentist and did not have sunglasses, but they had some and as soon as I put them on, the noise that had been driving into me became irritating instead of overwhelming. For me anyway it helps to minimize what I can.

Also.....exercise? I am not sure why but I think I remember my daughter's occupational therapist saying that helps. I know she recommended finding ways to swing and even a rocking chair might do something. Also sometimes people use a brush and there is a whole protocol. I don't know if it helps sound related sensory problems but I remember she said that the whole sensory system needs to be regulated or you can feel alone in what you are experiencing as a hostile world full of things that you feel are hurting your sensory system. I think it would be hard to find an OT who would work with you on sensory problems but if you live in a large city it might be possible.

I don't know if this helps. I hope you feel better Skibum!

Oh skibum, big hugs. I know so well what you mean. I have been through this too. I've had people walk away saying they couldn't do or be what they thought I needed them to be. And I felt like they didn't get it because I just wanted them to be THERE for me. I really just wanted them to keep being there and being themselves and keep doing what they were already doing.

And I think people don't understand, when a person feels like they can reveal a part of themselves they don't show to other people, it's good, it means you can trust them enough to do that, even if it freaks them out. But people can get freaked out and take it like a sign that things are getting worse or falling apart somehow. And maybe if they lack confidence in themselves, they can start thinking they are not good for you or that they are causing things to go wrong. And I know what you mean about that level of trust being broken. I'm so sorry this is happening for you right now.

It's not quite the same thing, but similar, one time I had a psychic bail out on me. She was one of the best and most accurate I had ever spoken to. We talked regularly for awhile and she helped me a lot and really acted kind of like a counselor for me. But then she decided she wasn't able to help me anymore. Well I felt like her idea of helping me was that she wanted to see me change into a different kind of person, being more what she saw as positive or upbeat or something like that. But instead I was getting into some really deep and intense stuff, with lots of raw emotion and I think that was not the result she wanted to see.

At the time I was really gutted and felt like I had lost something irreplaceable. The timing was horrible too, it was right around the time I had just had a bad car accident. But I kept getting the feeling that it really was for the best. And it took awhile, but since then I have found another psychic who helps me and is also much more accepting of me as a person. I think the key difference is she actually supports expressing emotion fully rather than suppressing it.

I know it can really hurt to lose trust for someone, even if they don't walk away, things just aren't the same. Especially when you feel like there is some part of yourself you have to hold back from them.

One thing life has shown me, no matter how much it hurts to lose something, sometimes it means that it wasn't quite right for me and something better is coming my way. It can take time to process the loss and rebuild but it always works out for good in the long run. Whether you work things out with this therapist, or find a new one, I feel like this will be a good change for you.



I agree completely and I hope this therapist will be able to understand this and support you in just the way that you need.

Waterfalls, thank you so much for your response. What you say is really good. I just had another interesting experience and just got back from the emergency room of the local hospital. I am fine, it was just a crazy way to spend New Year's Eve. The people 5 houses down from mine across the street were having a party and I had to leave my bed and my home and find a safe place to stay until the music at their house stopped. It's now 2:43 in the morning and it is now quiet enough that with my own music playing through earbuds coupled with construction site earmuffs and my noise machine turned up and set to rain, I can tolerate outside noises and try to get some rest. But more on that story later.

First of all, I wanted to comment on what you said about sensory issues. I think it is very interesting how yours work off of each other. You said that your sensitivity to light increases or decreases if you play soothing music. I think mine might be connected as well but not nearly as connected as yours. When I am extremely overloaded, they really affect each other but normal daily overload is usually not as connected. I will be sensitive to them independently and like dimmer lights won't affect my sensitivity to sound. But it will help me relax a little. I find it very fascinating that yours are connected at "normal overload" levels. Did I just coin a new term?

Exercise as you mentioned is also really important to me. It does not help me with sensory issues though. In fact I have had to be emergency tobogganed off the top of the mountain by ski patrol while skiing because someone came into the parking lot at the base boom booming so loudly that I pretty much lost the ability to function. Exercise is very important to me because it really helps keep me stable and connected to the earth and to my body but someone can drive by with a loud stereo and undo all the good it has done. It's the same with me and nature environments. They are hugely helpful to me as a whole but I am so affected by sensory attacks that all the good from a two hour hike in the park can be undone in a moment. Unlike with exercise, natural environments like the park can, however, give me a little more stamina so that I can tolerate sound overload for a few minutes as opposed to a few seconds. But exercise can help in so many ways that I am not surprised at all that it helps you daughter with her sensory issues. That is really great.

I think that for me sound sensitivity is so huge that we have not found anything that helps at all. And I think having Misophonia on top of that does not help either. One thing that was found about me though, when I had my hearing tested a couple of years ago, is that in my case, the bones at the base of the skull through which certain sounds like bass on a stereo come are heard rather than the sounds coming in through the ear drums, are unusually large. When the guy who was testing me saw this he was amazed and wondered how I could tolerate the sounds I was hearing due to the bones being larger than normal. He was amazed I was sane. And so far, as far as we know, there is absolutely nothing at all that can keep those sounds out since they come in through the base of the skull and not through the ears. I have spent hundreds of dollars on sound reducing devices and I have researched extensively. I have even had custom made musicians ear plugs. There is nothing that can stop these sounds. So this is not something I can ever get relief from. The only thing I can do is to remove myself from the sound or have it stopped. And it's not just bass from stereos. There is a generator inside of a building a block away from my house that drives me mad 24/7. So for me, the sounds are a big issue. I can understand how the lights would be for you as well.

And I totally understand about the dentist. I was really happy the day my dentist got the sunglasses for patients. I also don't let them floss my teeth, I have to do it myself, and my dentist knows not to put cotton in my mouth.

I agree with what you say about the therapist needing to deeply connect with the patient in cases like mine. I also understand why they don't and why they can't. When I taught I made those deep emotional connections with each of my students and that is what enabled me to be such an incredible teacher. I, however, don't have the sexual tendencies that most people have so I can understand how I was able to make those deep connections and why it would be a very risky thing if others who are more sexually oriented did that. So I totally get and respect the whole can't cross the professional line thing. But having said that, I think it's true that in a case like mine, I won't respond as well if you are not deeply connected with me because it will never get past the intellectual understanding. I can still learn and some progress can still be made but it won't be nearly as powerful as it would be if I were emotionally connected. But without the ability to do that it's possible that a therapist will never be able to fully reach me. I understand and accept that and I am fine with it.

In a situation like what happened, the best thing the therapist could have done was to just relax and let it pass. Even if he can't respond in a way that you would like to do naturally, it's ok to just let the person know that you are there and that if they need to release, that is fine. I think, like you said, he has never seen this issue where there are very different age groups functioning in one person. I don't need help with the young parts of me, I have always had them, they are as natural and normal to me as any other part of me. But every now and then the youngest parts have to come forward and express and release and if the environment feels safe enough, than they do and when the release or expression is done then it's done and life goes on as usual. But because no one is able to accept or understand that a person can have these age discrepancies people just assume it has to be because of a mental illness like Schizophrenia. It's not, it's very different. But they then automatically see it as something wrong which has to be treated or removed rather than as a normal part of this person's being and existence.

Or they assume it's because of some past trauma. It's not, it's just the way my brain is physiologically structured. If it had been because of some past emotional trauma, the therapies to correct it would have worked. It's just how I am. And I am fine with it and honestly I would not trade it or get rid of it for anything. But I can certainly understand how frightening it has to be for someone to witness something like that if they have never understood that it's possible. And for someone who has been trained in his job that it's his job to correct what he thinks is wrong with you, that has to be really scary. But I love this guy so much because I have seen him so open to learning new concepts about Autism in particular. I say about Autism because that is where I am coming from. He takes notes on what I say not just for my sake because he wants to learn about how I function in order to help his other patients who are Autistic and can't express themselves as well as I can or to help the parents of his young Autistic patients. He asks to be taught and is super humble about learning. So I totally think that when we talk about what happened he will really take the opportunity to learn about this.

I don't know that he will have the opportunity to see the child side of me like that again because I don't really control when she comes. But I do know that for her to come full force like that, the trust in the situation has to be incredible. So because the trust was kind of lost by his reaction, she will probably not come back, at least not until the trust is rebuilt. That's ok though. I don't mind if she stays away from that setting. There are plenty of other things that we can talk about and plenty of things we can learn from each other.

And Bea, as far as the abandonment issue what you said makes logical sense to me. I can see how that works. Abandonment is a constant theme in my life, I think moreso now than when I was a child. I don't really remember feeling that as a child. Detachment, but not abandonment. In my adult years it's been much more common. The problem is that I make an incredible first impression so it tends to be all downhill from there for most people who don't understand Aspie issues. So after awhile they just run. And even though it hurts I'm pretty used to it. But I think in this particular case, I did not want him to just pass me off to the next guy the minute he saw something about me that challenged him. I did not think that was fair. And for me to have gained the kind of trust in him that allowed that little kid part to come full force after only knowing him a year, that's a big trust. So I did not want to be tossed away so quickly just because he felt inadequate. I have more confidence in his ability to grown and learn than that.

But posting here really does help. Like they say, it takes one to know one. I believe that we can understand each other as Spectrumites in ways that no one else can. So we can support each other in ways that no one else possibly ever could. I am not saying that no one else can support us, I am just saying that in some ways, only we know what it's really like.

So thank you all for your input. I think this is getting to be a great thread with lots of important topics that are really worth talking about at length.

Dianthus, Thank you so much. We are like sisters, you and I. Your story with the psychic is very similar. You really do understand how this feels. I am glad you found someone who can really click with you.

I have a very difficult time writing people off and losing faith in them because I understand how human we all are. And I really believe that God put me and this therapist together because I need to teach him. He knows this and we have always talked about this since day one. But he does help me as well and it's usually just by providing an ear and a safe environment to hash things out and work through things. I tend to work out my own strategies and solutions once I get super analytical. It's just an Aspie survival method trait and it works well. He just kind of helps guide a bit by bringing things up and assuring me that I am on the right track. He has not once taught me any strategy or given me any solution that I did not figure out myself. But I really appreciate that because that is kind of what I need. All I really need in a therapy situation is a place to safely go at it and work it out and someone who can kind of keep me on track and throw in a little guidance every now and then and a little reassurance that everything will be ok when the world falls apart. I definitely don't need someone with an agenda who can't even bother getting to know me or be a friend but just needs to fit me into a box to be able to say, "look how I turned the Aspie into an good little NT." That's just nutters.

If you've managed to live a half century with no help whatsoever because nobody knew what your problem was and you managed to create your own strategies to cope with life, some therapist is not going to get your respect by trying to fit you into a little therapy box. And if that therapist is like the one I mentioned earlier, he was a real piece of work, and you are old enough to be his mother, he can just forget it.