The Verdict Filters In: Cho Was Autistic

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blueroses
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21 Apr 2007, 8:16 pm

SteveK wrote:
Frankly, I think you are both trolls, but....


What on earth? No!

I thought that if major newspapers and television networks are putting out reports that he had autism, it might be worth sharing. I'm concerned that if this is the first introduction people who are unfamiliar with autism spectrum disorders get, it will be bad for all of us on the spectrum. I think that even if he was autistic, he was also seriously disturbed. I'm sorry if I didn't articulate that clearly enough in my other post.



MsTriste
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21 Apr 2007, 8:33 pm

Talk about a sensationalist title. There is nothing in the original post to suggest anything that the title of the thread states. That's irresponsible.



Graelwyn
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21 Apr 2007, 8:42 pm

I don't think anyone should be labelling others trolls simply due to their low post count. The topic was not posted in the manner a troll would post. I believe calling others trolls is irresponsible and irrational.

I believe that it is possible that Cho did have autism. Of course, it is also possible he had a great many other issues, this isn't black and white... people are taking it way too personally rather than discussing it from a logical and rational point of view like PatrickG and ZanneMarie.



ilikebeer
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21 Apr 2007, 8:44 pm

American girls and American guys
We'll always stand up and salute
We'll always recognize
When we see Old Glory Flying
There's a lot of men dead
So we can sleep in peace at night
When we lay down our head

My daddy served in the army
Where he lost his right eye
But he flew a flag out in our yard
Until the day that he died
He wanted my mother, my brother, my sister and me
To grow up and live happy
In the land of the free.

Now this nation that I love
Has fallen under attack
A mighty sucker punch came flyin' in
From somewhere in the back
Soon as we could see clearly
Through our big black eye
Man, we lit up your world
Like the 4th of July

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin' her fist
And the eagle will fly
Man, it's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin' her bell
And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue

Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you'll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin' her fist
And the eagle will fly
Man, it's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin' her bell
And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue



Roxas_XIII
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21 Apr 2007, 9:01 pm

ilikebeer wrote:
American girls and American guys
We'll always stand up and salute
We'll always recognize
When we see Old Glory Flying
There's a lot of men dead
So we can sleep in peace at night
When we lay down our head

My daddy served in the army
Where he lost his right eye
But he flew a flag out in our yard
Until the day that he died
He wanted my mother, my brother, my sister and me
To grow up and live happy
In the land of the free.

Now this nation that I love
Has fallen under attack
A mighty sucker punch came flyin' in
From somewhere in the back
Soon as we could see clearly
Through our big black eye
Man, we lit up your world
Like the 4th of July

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin' her fist
And the eagle will fly
Man, it's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin' her bell
And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue

Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you'll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shakin' her fist
And the eagle will fly
Man, it's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringin' her bell
And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue


The hell? I know that song!


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echokynthei
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21 Apr 2007, 9:07 pm

Yes, I want and need more data, but it is suggestive. this is very subjective, but i saw his face, the shot from his student id, i think, and it looked so much like the look i have on my face in public it made me shiver. i know the look because i see it on my myspce site-let my webcam take a few timed shots, then picked one. eyes alive, but do people really look? face more or less neutral, in a waiting posture. but to people who don't read those kind of cues...how can i read those and not theirs? who the hell knows? not just his face, i'm not that silly. it's the fact that he was described by his sister as gentle and loving and trying so hard to fit in. the fact that he never, from the very beginning of his life, fit in. the fact that he literally did not have one conversation with some of his suitemates.

So sure. it makes me wonder. because he had a conscience. he was just delusional...just? who knows what else went wrong? i myself have bipolar as well as being aspie. carry diagnosis of ocd as well, but i sort of consider it redundant. Mr. Cho, if he had ASD, started out with difficulty making social connections within a culture that had little tolerance for failure of any kind-and ours is the kind of difficulty in which applying pressure nearly assures further "failure". But it goes further. South Koreans tend to overidentify. They are actually afraid we will change our treaty status with them because of this, South Koreans all over the country are contemplating 32 day fasts (one day for each victim) and gathering together in groups to keep each other safe in case we attack. Seung-Hiu Cho, to them, is South Korea-and they think he must be to us-to the US.
So it is in South Korean families. The child is the family, and their family before them, and what will come after them. They represent so much that there is no room to fail or even be...a strain for anyone. Imagine what it would be like for an aspie. Imagine if it were perhaps not just pressure, but active scorn...

And there my little fantasy spins into "need more data" land, because i was a child with autism, and my parents were american but they were hideously unfit to be parents. i am slightly more likely to respond to violence with violence, and might even get in someone's face if they wouldn't leave me alone when i needed to be alone-i'm through crawling under things or the equivalent. but to go to that extreme-to PLAN to go to that extreme? it's the calculation...
yes. the calculation. yet this young man was no sociopath. and no, he was not schizophrenic, not definitively. we can't rule out asd. you know one thing that sticks out? he always wore sunglasses. i do that. or i do it a lot, and i always have them. to cut down the stimulation level, if i need to.

mass shooters, oddly enough, can be diagnosed as mentally ill but not suffering from a chronic mental illness. sometimes they are suffering from something known as brief reactive psychosis. brief can be hours, days or months-it's not years. it does usually occur in vulnerable individuals, when they are exposed to a powerful stressor. so Cho could be ASD, have been suffering a brief reactive psychosis...and lots of people died. and it was no more the result of the asd than it would have been the result of him having sustained a series of losses, coming from an abusive background, having been the victim of a crime, or any other number of things which made his cortisol levels higher than average. an aspie with better coping skills would not be as vulnerable, perhaps...don't know what the research is, but intuitively that feels right. so many factors, though...

I don't hear anyone asking the right questions. how was his sense of direction? i understand his parents used to drive him every day-was that because they didn't have another car, or could he not figure out how to drive? was his hearing overly acute? but they don't know the right questions, probably.

to whoever had the problem with the teachers wanting someone in the forum to be tested, and the reaction of their teacher mother: test the IQ. And it was high, so mum was smug. well, i had the exact, exact situation. no lie. teacher mother and everything. they wanted to test me for "emotional disturbances" was how they put it, so i could get special resources, but needed her permission-which is odd, i think. she said, test her IQ. well, i came out gifted. weird, but gifted. somehow, this vindicated her. this also kept her abused child from seeing a psychologist. people who care for children are not the enemy. my teacher was trying to help, and the benighted laws of the state i live in kept me from getting not only services-but it blocked off any avenues of accountability for my parents or escape for me or my brother. But they couldn't test me without her permission, at least not back then. Can you say liability, anyone?



Graelwyn
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echokynthei
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22 Apr 2007, 1:33 pm

Just a quick note. CNN reported the story we've run across, that the young man was diagnosed at age 8 upon arriving in US, this story passed on by his grand-aunt. However, CNN has retracted this story, and there is usually a reason for a retraction-they have some doubt as regards the provenance. At present, all we have is hearsay. If I heard it from the parents, or even the sister, I'd come nearer being sure.
Or perhaps the parents told them to retract it. I don't know. Just thought the fact of the retraction should be thrown into the mix. Also, there are other conditions that can cause autistic-like traits, notably the schizoid-personality disorders. And they can begin in early childhood. Schizotypal, for example...I carried that diagnosis until I told someone it was redundant. If it's still in my file I don't know, but I just absorbed it into the general aspieness. I suppose you could say I aspirated it.
Regardless, and despite the fact that i'm not suppose to be able to see in shades of gray and such, this is not a black and white issue. There was no doubt some underlying vulnerability, and interactions with the world were somewhat negative or frustrating as a result. I suspect some sort of full blown mental illness manifested as he went through puberty and approached adulthood, possibly bipolar, I don't really know-just going by the fact that I'm bipolar and bipolar and autism are frequently comorbid-if he was autistic. But really, the best explanation is one I read while reading Time magazine, and it would have been a result of the early insults and bullying and inability to fit in. He was a narcissist, with a horribly low self-esteem, propping itself up with grandiosity. In his case, it was so low it took a lethal amount of amperage to give it sufficient lift. In his tape, to his victims: "Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ."
Did he have the sensory overload and out of rhythm beginnings that we did? If so, it was a risk factor that might have led to the development of narcissistic personality disorder. But anything can be a risk factor...again, not enough facts.
Hope this gives someone an angle.