Half the reason why I don't make eye contact

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0_equals_true
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25 Apr 2007, 10:57 am

Sedaka wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
TrishC7 wrote:
One of my main reasons for not making eye contact is that it tends to distract me from a conversation. Also I don't feel as if I have a good sense of 'appropriate' amount of eye contact, from an NT point of view. I either make what they see as too much or too little, generally.

What I learnt is it is a myth that you need to 'maintain' eye contact. NT don't always do as they say. If you just stared at someone their might perceive this as a threat. I not sure the exact amount but if you glance at them and look away while they are talking every now and then to you they like that. It’s kind of like how they need you to repeat their name while talking, its kind of pointless but makes them feel good.


i do this... bouncing your gaze around... it's a good thing that at my work when i do talk most times with people... we're usually drawing either on a board or sheet of paper so it gives me something to look at (other than them)... helps a lot.


As long as you don't get in a panic and do it to fast. I remember I was in a train station once and I couldn't look at any person or thing to long and my eye darting about and I was having a panic
attack.



Anubis
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25 Apr 2007, 11:02 am

I find eye contact hard, and it's unnervving. Only with family, when I have to.


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TrishC7
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26 Apr 2007, 4:41 am

That last is classic behavior theory; human or animal. The 'alpha' is the one who can stare down the other(s). I think that's why a lot of people freak, when we happen to be in a 'constant eye contact mode' and haven't noticed we're doing it. On the other hand, to avoid eye contact generally is a sign of submissiveness to higher-ranking individuals, and not making eye contact at all then also tends to freak people out. And that's why the 'standard' is regular but not constant eye contact. I don't know why I didn't think of that before in an Aspie context. Duh, me. I spent 6 years as a dog trainer & read extensively in behavior. I know better. 8O



0_equals_true
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26 Apr 2007, 5:16 am

TrishC7 wrote:
That last is classic behavior theory; human or animal. The 'alpha' is the one who can stare down the other(s). I think that's why a lot of people freak, when we happen to be in a 'constant eye contact mode' and haven't noticed we're doing it. On the other hand, to avoid eye contact generally is a sign of submissiveness to higher-ranking individuals, and not making eye contact at all then also tends to freak people out. And that's why the 'standard' is regular but not constant eye contact. I don't know why I didn't think of that before in an Aspie context. Duh, me. I spent 6 years as a dog trainer & read extensively in behavior. I know better. 8O

Very true I think of it like this

Male Loin (Dominant) - Fixed stare through the subject often will not not move it even if subject move slightly out of sight. In control, comfortable.

Deer in Headlights (Threat/Alert) - Frozen wide eyes, will try to keep in sight.

Young Monkey (Submissive) - will avoid eye contact, will turn away to signal not a threat before approaching

There is stuff to do with naughty stuff but I'm not sure about that :wink:

I was told you need a balance of all three in normal situations not too much off one. Like it is ok to look away from people just don't look too far to the side.



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26 Apr 2007, 10:31 am

I can make only fleeting eye contact with non-family members, non-close friends. As in, maybe a second or less of eye contact before I have to look away, unless I'm forcing myself to make eye contact, in which case my whole sympathetic nervous system revs into gear and makes me feel very stressed out. I think eye contact does trigger a "fight or flight" response in me. Usually I look towards the corners of the room, or off to the side.



phenomenon
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28 Apr 2007, 5:07 pm

This is my trouble EXACTLY. I can make eye contact and always do in conversations, but I can only ever pay around 40% attention to the conversation...the other 60% is timing the length of eye contact, ensuring my body language is correct (I'm not keeping my hands in one place the entire time, etc). Of course, things are much more relaxed when it's me and my mum, and sometimes other family members, but during times of stress it is just incredibly difficult to have a normal conversation.

TrishC7 wrote:
One of my main reasons for not making eye contact is that it tends to distract me from a conversation. Also I don't feel as if I have a good sense of 'appropriate' amount of eye contact, from an NT point of view. I either make what they see as too much or too little, generally.



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28 Apr 2007, 6:47 pm

phenomenon wrote:
This is my trouble EXACTLY. I can make eye contact and always do in conversations, but I can only ever pay around 40% attention to the conversation...the other 60% is timing the length of eye contact, ensuring my body language is correct (I'm not keeping my hands in one place the entire time, etc).


That sounds like what I and some other people in another thread were talking about. I'm not using 60% of my brain, it's a lot lower than that, but I am having to consciously manage eye contact, what I'm doing, how close I am, etc. to try to not have it look weird. As we were mentioning in the other thread, I'd like to know the exact formula for it-like "look at the person 30% of the time, look to the side 20%..." or whatever.



Jimbogf
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28 Apr 2007, 10:51 pm

Inventor wrote:
I have been told I have the look of a predator. It produces a fight or flee response. I can look at the back of someones head and they feel it. They look around, I look somewhere else, but watch from the side, and when they turn away I look at the back of their head again. It works best from directly behind.


Hehe, I used to do that back in school. I'd stare at other people just to see if they notice. Most of the time, they look around with a confused look, then go back to normal, I'd stare back again, same thing.

I was absolutely fascinated by this behaviour of people. I'd think, what causes this? how does it work? I'd make mental notes of which people reacted and which did not. What I found was that the most arrogant and meanest people (the bullies) were the most likely to react, the animal-like people. The smartest and nicest people hardly ever reacted, they would just continue doing their school work.

I figured it was just a natural survival instinct, like a "predator detector"... sixth sense?

Of course I don't do that now, it's socially unacceptable and creepy. No wonder why I was bullied so much in school, oh well.



Kilroy
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28 Apr 2007, 10:52 pm

it scares me to look into someones eyes...I feel strange and threatened...
only to family can I look into they're eyes



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28 Apr 2007, 11:01 pm

I also feel threatened looking people in the eyes. Or I used to. I kinda just don't care anymore these days. I tend to have a wild or nervous look in my eyes... But more often a dazed apathetic gaze.
Used to get crap from people for not looking into their eyes... I suppose my forced myself into getting used to it.


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