OCD and Autism

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Okay, if your special interest doesn't cause you a significant impairment, it's not considered an autism symptom. I think that is what everyone calls a strong interest and some NTs have strong interests too but I am sure they still stop and do other things like take a bathroom break or getting something to eat and going to bed and putting it last when they get other stuff done first. It's true that some people on the spectrum have learned to manage their interests so they are not out of control and they can still do other things and they find the time to pursue them like one of my aspie friends does.

Sorry, I just read too many stories about aspies not doing their school work because their interests were more important or aspies not wanting to work because they would rather be with their interests, and aspies only wanting to talk about their interests and that is it and they have to talk about it or else and they never want to hear anything else. My mom even had a student who would always draw airplanes and he was flunking because he wouldn't do his school work or his homework. They had to use his "obsession" to teach him like when giving him math problems, they had to turn each problem into a story problem using his "obsession." That was my mom's word when she told me this story and this was back in 2001 when I first heard the story. Now the term would be she had to use his special interest to get him to do is school work. But if they do it in their free time, I don't really see how it's even an impairment unless it impacts their life. But I guess it would be fair to call these extreme examples obsessions? :/ After all they are not doing it in their free time.

Yeah, those extreme examples would be obsessions for sure. To call them "special interests" even if they interfere that much in life, I don't know, it makes them sound too cool. I hope the kid in the math problem example learned to moderate his interests.

its still a little grey in this area i think to be totally honest, there seams to be conflicts about what a ""Special Interest"" pertains as far as excessive or above normal interest.. Its still relatively young as far as research goes, i read that those on the spectrum have narrowed interests, then i go to another aspie forum and see many have a wide variety of interests, and some that arent particularly life long, but come and go in waves... We are still in a very subjective time of research at the moment, but momentum is taking place, and more deeper research is being made in these areas... Also sounds like your friend has Executable function disorder also.. But dont quote me, im not an expert. You have one psychologist/psychiatrist say one thing as fact but another will contradict that, that i do know and have witnessed! but if interests arent getting in the way of daily hygiene, chors, homework etc then i think its very healthy for those on the spectrum, as its a stress relief and helps a great deal.. I think its when it does become excessive then maybe note has to be taken.. But seems at the moment the views seem to differ in many different areas of the spectrum/s.

I also have to add , when i was in school, unless the subject interested me, i seemed to switch off.. There were some subjects that i knew i would never use in my lifetime and felt it was wasted energy... As many on the spectrum dont have a middle ground, its either they love it or they dont.. So trying to focus on something that bores the living hell out of you is akin to a sportsman/woman sitting watching paint dry!... Its not that they wish that, its the chemistry and biology that control that.. So yes using games techniques that mix an interest in with learning is a great way to go, its trying different techniques to get the right response.. There were subjects i wished to learn but were too confusing because many of the questions in my mind could mean several different things and it would baffle the hell out of me and cause inner frustration, while everyone else seemed to grasp it naturally. I only ever had one staff member work that out with me, and instead of repeating the same methodology over and over again expecting a different result ( yes Einsteins version of insanity and a little true i might add!) He worded things differently each time until it was like a light switch going on and i would get it.. I still remember him till this day!

When I was a kid, I didn't learn anything on the topic or I zones out in class and in high school I would just get tired and rest my head. I know some kids on the spectrum love to learn so they have a whole wide range of interests than having narrow ones so hence the straight A's. I remember some topics I had learned in school because they were interested. I even came home from school one day trying to dig to the magma that is underneath the crust but then gave up because the ground got too hard. I think what doctors might not realize is maybe an autistic person who loves to learn things is maybe their intense interest. I have seen several say on here that a doctor told them they didn't have autism because they didn't have narrow interests. I was like "What? That isn't one of the requirements, it's only one of the things in the criteria." But I think they have changed it now in the new DSM because we know more.

My mom who has looked at the new criteria said it was all confusing. I am not sure why. Maybe because she had noticed how much it had changed over the last 20 years since I was a kid. Heck I just found out that an autistic child can still point and still be autistic so me pointing as a toddler and making a sound with my mouth doesn't necessarily mean I was doing joint attention. It's how you do it. If the kid isn't looking at the person to make sure they are looking at what they are pointing at, that is a sign.

Now I am finding out you can have an interest and still not have them impair you and still have it be a symptom? But then again if an NT person had a strong interest and spent hours with it (some are introverts) it wouldn't be a symptom for them and they would have to have a wider range of symptoms to be on the spectrum. Also sometimes it's a sign of a gifted child. But when I was a kid, I would just get obsessed my mom called it but I wouldn't go collecting facts on topics. I would just have weird obsessions like getting obsessed with a movie or getting obsessed with a bad word and I would get goofy and talk about it but my mom always forbid the same topics over and over. I was also language impaired so I didn't understand lot of things so that could be why I was never a little professor and I had receptive language delay so I didn't understand lot of verbal things. I wouldn't say they were OCD obsessions because I didn't feel distress from them. Only time I did was when I wanted to stop obsessing but couldn't because they were getting me into trouble and no one liked me talking about it and my mom would get mad at me too and then I would feel bad. People will call anything an obsession when you are stuck on something or when you have a fixation on something like if an autistic child likes elevators so they must have to ride them each time they see one so the parent might say their kid has an obsession with elevators than special interest in elevators. And I think ASD people can have an intense interest in something and not even realize it because it's a normal interest they have. I remember being in third grade and I always had to play on these monkey bars during recess and even kids on it making fun of me didn't stop me so that might have been my intense interest and I also had rashes on my skin from the monkey bars and I still kept at it. But I didn't go collect facts on monkey bars and start talking about them. But it did make me abandon playing with other kids on the playground and abandon two of my classroom friends. Those monkey bars were just too important. There are so many different degrees of the symptoms, especially the intense interests and intensity focus they won't manifest the same in each individual on the spectrum.

I was just reading another website about what is autism and what isn't and it said a kid being obsessed with a TV show or with their toys cars is not a sign of autism but here I was thinking "What about degree of the interest?" Some autistic children like Thomas the Tank Engine but than again lot of boys do so would that sign go unnoticed? Sometimes it's hard to tell if a kid has it or not if things they are doing is normal at their age and then it gets more obvious as they get older. I think that is the case with milder cases on the spectrum.

What do you mean by my friend has executive function disorder? Why do you say that?

Well, firstly i just saved you from a whole world of hurt!! ! lol i have been none stop writing as a reply here that ended up turning into part to a biography, so ended up saving it to my folder for maybe a website im developing! you were lucky!! ! lol... Il start with your last question if i may.
Executable functioning disorder seems to go hand in hand with many on the spectrum. Its the inability to stay focused on the primamry objective, in your friends case that may be the learning math etc. Your friend was focused on the plane drawing and any other primary was not of importance to them... Thats just a tipbit, theirs alot out there about theat one you can look on without me hogging the thread page

As for the rest, i think im understanding you and agree. According to the last lady i saw, she said under DSM IV i would definitely be diagnosed as on the spectrum. But according to her she thought under DSM V i was under Social communication Disorder.. Its really a long story, but she really wasnt interested in my interests and would move on rather quickly, which started to shut me down somewhat! my first interest from memory ( i have memories as vivid as they jsut happened from the age of one and a half) was water, as soon as i mentioned water and was about to elaborate, she said alot of children like water and moved on, it left me in a state of mini shock and confusion, she also had never heard of the RDOS or RAADS, admitted she didnt have much experience in this area and had only dealt with one other on the spectrum that she was presently seeing, she didnt like it when i flipfloped her arguments, going back to the same response as "" well, thats what is says in the DSM V"". I emphasized that i thought she was being very tunnel visioned and that she should broaden her mind rather than solely rely on the DSM Bible ! I mentioned DSM is US based Psychiatry, what about the international ICD under WHO.. She just said she goes by the DSM... I knew i was in for a rough ride from then on, after explaining i did lighting as a way to try to overcome my social fear and that it just made it worse, she then suggested going into town to do a social experiment where she could observe me, Social flooding.... Dint she just listen to a word i had just said! lol, and thats probably the worst advice you could give to someone on the spectrum! Seems she has an NT, one way fixes all approach! just everything she was saying was just wrong on all levels.. She talked about our social interactions that i wasnt allowing a natural flow of conversation from one person back to the other... Well, i wasnt there for a natter and a cup of tea! I have only so long to explain 40 years of all sorts of experiences not knowing what was normal and what was seen as someone that could be connected to the spectrum! so apologized if i seemed like this was a different conversation from the norm, because it was! ... She then talked about sarcasm, i mentioned i grew up in the SW of England, and sarcasm is part of its history there, so in part i understood some but not all really, because it involves no facial reactions, so was in some ways a bit of a godsend growing up, because i just went along with it, And from those words she put in her final report.. ""Sarcasm, possibly aggressive"". in my medical report for all eternity, and this was the same woman who in the end of the 6 weeks suddenly said she didnt like to give labels, well she sure labelled me for life there, that could have very bad repercussions if interpreted wrongly if those records ever needed to be used... I was never sarcastic with her, however if she presented an argument that went against what i had read online ( and some extensive reading by this point!) she didnt seem to like that. i was just trying to defend myself, i think she is used to people nodding their heads and agreeing with everything she says.. I just couldnt do that because her information was factually incorrect! I mentioned Tony Attwood, and she shrugged and said, well, he has an aspergers son.. I said yes, and her response was that basically his life work was likely influenced by his personal relationship with his son!, im sorry, but that was just ridiculous.. I wont even go into the empathy conversations... And just to give myself a little credence at this point, i have spent my entire life helping others, from working for the sick in Lourdes in Southern France, to dedicating 13 years of my life to the local coastguard here, running the jetski unit, i have had my door open to anyone that wishes if they need a chat, if i see someone crying i will talk to them, i dont like to see people in pain, i know what it feels like.. Just to keep it short.. so to be labelled as she has done on my medical report after pertaining that she doesnt like to give labels, i found that the most hypocritical thing a so called professional could say, before this point i gave all my trust to the system, only now to feel somewhat worse than when i went in, the damage these people can do is amazing! and she is questioning my empathy! seem theres more Mind blindness from many NT'S... Some of my relationships have ended... wait for it... because im too kind! yup totally sounds like someone thats going to cause alot of destructive aggression towards others! even my doctor was somewhat amazed and said i should write a report on my outlined views, i havent done yet, why? because i dont want her to get in trouble or cause a situation, the irony just goes on! lol... I was originally never looking for anything, only why do and have felt so alien to everyone in this world, that conversation went from one to another until my first Councillor asked if i had heard of Aspergers, i mentioned i had heard of it but wasnt an area i had researched, she mentioned to go and do a little reading of it because she thought i was on the spectrum... At this point again i wasnt looking for anything, just for me to find a way to stop how i feel and be able to go out in public without closing down, but when i started reading it, it was lightbulb after lightbulb going of, it wasnt just the odd one here or there, almost everyline i was reading was like someone had followed me my entire life without me knowing and publishing my life online! it was something i couldnt ignore.. So She sent me off for evaluation and cut a long story short i have gone full circle through people that potentially help destroy someones life, not make it better! At this point i realized how much injustice there is towards those on the spectrum mainly out of ignorance, but also the misunderstandings, and the myths that are still etched as fact in many professionals desk.. It made me want to help fight for it! so now im just going through the entire system and taking in all the things that are broken, and messed up so i can advocate for it... It truly is amazing to me, how little they do know of the spectrum, and here i was initially giving my full trust towards it. I have called AutismNZ and explained my story, and the lady at the other end sighed and mentioned that these professionals dont really know what to look for.. by gum, shes right ok, but i have another 6-12 months before i can get an evaluation in.. and to my it is important for a number of reasons. Up till now its been almost 2 years from start to where i am now... Im lucky im a pretty strong cookie, i wouldnt want to see anyone do anything drastic because of a broken system, where egos get in the way of logic! i really want to do something about it... this is not just isolated here but all over the world, ! i knew i was different, but im now realizing how different i am, what seems obvious as day light to me, has other people scratching their heads! and visa versa.. Bottom line is we can all learn from each other, we have heard NT's and listened all our lives, now the scales need to balance out a little more, and it seems the momentum is starting!

and this was the short version of what i wrote! I apologize to your goodself and anyone else that was unfortunate to read my post! but thats how it came out and was a true reflection of how i feel... So yes even with things like special interests, obsessions, there seems to be different interpretations from different professionals and what classes as such and even to the point on what your said interest is! Im not saying all areas have got it wrong, but its clear there are many people that are in positions that could change peoples lives for the worse unintentionally that clearly need better education on the matter.....

I would love to read the rest you wrote and yes each doctor does seem to have their own opinion on autism which is so confusing because who do you listen to? And also what if a bunch of doctors say you don't have autism and only couple of them said you did? If all your medical reports were from 20-30 years ago, then that might be different because autism was narrower then. If you had an imagination and made up stories, you were not autistic. If you were social and wanted to please people, you were not autistic. But there are still some doctors out there who are stuck on old terms about autism. Funny enough one doctor wrote I was too socially developed when I was eight for him to even agree with the early diagnoses of autism but yet I was bossy, had a hard time relating to other kids when I would be at their house and kids never had me at their house, they only came to mine to play, I had a hard time with change, I cried a lot and I was more immature for my age, I had some behavior, according to my report cards I didn't follow the rules. Maybe in the office I did good and I listened to him. It was just a bunch of games and activities he gave me like puzzles, and mazes and I loved those activities. I also talked too about the activities.

Uncle, I think this is terrible that a professional wasn't listening to you, and that when you wanted to tell your full story, they took it as a sign that you weren't being socially compliant.

I just looked up social communication disorder; I only just learned about it today, from this thread. It's an interesting diagnosis, as it's sort of like a description of someone's problems without the explanation behind them. It seems to imply that learning the rules is sufficient treatment, but what about thinking patterns, values, ETC? I wonder if such a diagnosis would help me, or if it doesn't matter because adult treatment is lacking. As a kid, I would have absolutely rebelled against such a diagnosis because I believed that other people should share more openly and not lie. I also didn't realize I missed so much in the body language/facial expressions department due to being blind. I thought people were just being prejudiced when they tried to tell me.

Thanks I may post it all as it outlines a more personal and and indepth view of how i have viewed and felt over my life.. Also seeing a psychologist she is professionally bound not to give a diagnosis as she has done in my medical report, only psychiatrist can do this by law, so thats another strike! I have read about Social communication disorder and it doesnt match up to that of the aspergian traits, its close as it was from the autism spectrum that social communication disorder arose from.. I have mentioned in another post about the financial factors and reasons behind why i think communication disorder was created and i do have some proof to back my comments up, in short, as there is more understanding being made available, there have become more people diagnosed as been on the spectrum, social communication disorder is in effect almost identical to ASD but doesnt in effect show the signs of interests associated with ASD.. but to add to that, in the US that diagnosis voids you of any help or funding.. There are many parents crying a stink online because there childs diagnosis has been changed to the latter. They clearly need the support, but been thrown in this category now throws them between the cracks and the insurance companies etc dont cover this new diagnosis.. As far as my interests go, i have very deep interests. IT has been my main area, and since my initial wake up call of being on the spectrum, this now has become a focus point, More than an NT's? well, i only have my mind to compare to so its hard to say, but from lifes observations of other peoples interests i would say most definitely yes, its hard for me to pull away from some of my interests, and some stay and some just stop as abruptly as they started, i can be fully focused on a topic for months even years, then literally one day stop.. Its funny as ive seen mentioned many on the spectrum, will collect things in areas of such topics and still keep hold of them after topic stops only to one day just get rid of it all without much thought, thats me to a ""T"". This forum for instance, i find it hard when online to not spend a vast majority here, now, i find it helpful, insightful and absolutely fascinating.. As imagination goes, i think again i fall short here to some point, for instance if i was to tell and make up a story to tell a child, i wouldnt have a clue where to start or what to say, however with my graphics design i can create things that do rely on imagination and i see that with a lot of people here, even some that live in their imaginative world.. So again another topic i think is somewhat subjective.. Also as mentioned it hard because there is no way i can get into someones head to get a different point of view, only from observation, which is where i have mimicked other people and actions throughout life.. Its funny, i never really thought too much about body language blindness untill i read on it. and again i fit that mold perfectly, I understand ( i think) the more obvious body language but many others i fall far short on, i mean i wouldn't have a clue if someone was interested in me unless they were hanging off me and i would still question that! lol ( hence why i seem to attract a not so great spectrum!) I also sort of make a joke if i misinterpret peoples body language, its just been my natural progression to deal with such matters so i dont stand there like a stunned mullet and feel awkward or close down. Many times i have stood there with a couple of people only be told if i could go away as they were having a private conversation, i happily oblige then to be told by someone else did i really not get their body language that i was/shouldn't have been part of that conversation, my answer is no, i didnt realize at all... There are soo many points its beyond funny, hence what was my original post i decided not to, its VERY long! lol But will post if you so wish, however despite it being long is still a cut down version and only encompasses on some of the key factors not all

I found this distinction really helpful. Many thanks.

I see elements of both those behaviours in myself. But for the OCD-like element, I tend to see it as merely a product of my autism and a general anxiety problem - after all, who wouldn't want to work hard to remove a source of painful and debilating anxiety from their life? I think I'm probably a defensive pessimist, i.e. I try to manage my anxieties by being acutely aware of possible negative outcomes and doing my homework to make sure those things don't happen. Defensive pessimism isn't a disorder, it's a coping mechanism, and they say it's usually best not to try to remove it.

Unfortunately everything is turned into a disorder that holds you back and causes distress or significant impairments in academics or occupational functioning. But there are gray areas of course because I found out you can still get diagnosed even if it doesn't hold you back like you just said for example. And OCD used to be consided an anxiety disorder so it was listed as one of the anxiety disorders but in the new DSM, it was taken off the anxiety spectrum and put in its own category. I think someone can fall into both autism and OCD for their obsessions because I know I have and I have read that OCD can be manifested from autism and it's sometimes neurological.

I should confess that defensive pessimism has a downside - in focussing on mitigating the possible dangers, the person tends to overlook the positive, and so they can miss out on opportunities. But if one has anxiety, it has to be managed, and I don't know of any management strategy that doesn't have a price tag. So yes, everything's grey, and yes the great and good too often assume it's all about disorder. I like to think we're all both mad and sane, impaired and gifted, and that categories are both ludicrous and extremely useful.

i've not been diagnosed with ocd, but i do some obsessive compulsive things sans the disorder part.
the washing hands thing is similar to something i did as a child. my fear was that if my hands weren't already under the running water of the sink by the time the toilet finished flushing, i had to wash them again. or else...? idk. or else bad stuff. i knew it was illogical, but it didn't really impair me.
also for awhile i had anorexia nervosa and i've had other forms of eating disorder as well, which i think are basically obsessive compulsions to control consumption. its hard for some people to understand that eating disorders are not just social products of culture and pressure to be thin and all of that.

I also did the hand washing thing in 4th grade. But it was more about wanting to have good hygiene and I kept thinking my hands were dirty and they would make my skin look nice and soft but instead my skin got dry and would show white stuff and then it was peeling and bleeding so my mom got me lotion and told me washing my hands too much is what makes my skin that way. I never washed my hands compulsively again.

VERY well articulated!