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Autism is fundamentally NOT a social disoder

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Ganondox
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05 Jun 2016, 1:42 pm

skibum wrote:
Sensory processing is not the root cause. And what you did not mention is brain processing speed. which is one of the main issues that causes the problems in all of the other issues that you mentioned. And I do not think that your order of what influences what is accurate.


The point is not that sensory processing is the root cause, obviously it's more complicated than that, but that social problems AREN'T, and thus shouldn't be viewed as the primary characteristics.

Yes, processing speed is an important factor, but it requires more than just slow processing speed as by itself slow processing speed just ends up resulting in generally lower intelligence. It's also a specific trait, rather than an area of disorder, which is why it's not listed, it's usually grouped under executive function. Again, it's a very generalized list, main point being social problems don't cause problems in all the other areas.


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05 Jun 2016, 2:00 pm

Ettina wrote:
Executive dysfunction, social difficulties and sensory issues are separate issues. They don't cause each other. There are people with congenital frontal lobe anomalies who have significant executive dysfunction but decent social skills (apart from impulsivity) and no sensory processing issues. There are also people with sensory processing issues who have decent social skills and executive function. And although autism affects all three, the severity of any one of those is not correlated with the severity of the other two.

I firmly believe that there is no 'core deficit' for autism. Autism involves the combination of several distinct areas of cognition that happen to be correlated for biological (controlled by nearby brain regions) rather than functional reasons.

Specifically, autism is highly prevalent among children with congenital cerebellar anomalies. The cerebellum is central to sensory processing and communicates heavily with areas of the brain involved in executive function and social interaction. So all three skills are often affected together simply because they are influenced by the same brain region.


There are some many different neurological abnormalities associated with autism I don't think it's really worth tackling. In additon to the the cerebrum the temporal lobe, the amygdala, the corpus callosum, and yes, the frontal lobe, are often abnormal, as well as general differences in neural networks that aren't specific to any region in the brain. Than there is differences in neurotransmitter levels as well. So I'm sure correlation is some factor, but I'd like to deal with cognitive explanations first as it's more directly related to the diagnosis.

The point isn't the problems with executive functioning and sensory issues WILL effect the other two areas, it's that they CAN. I don't believe there is a core deficit either, rather it's a synergy of traits.


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Last edited by Ganondox on 05 Jun 2016, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skibum
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05 Jun 2016, 2:04 pm

Ganondox wrote:
skibum wrote:
Sensory processing is not the root cause. And what you did not mention is brain processing speed. which is one of the main issues that causes the problems in all of the other issues that you mentioned. And I do not think that your order of what influences what is accurate.


The point is not that sensory processing is the root cause, obviously it's more complicated than that, but that social problems AREN'T, and thus shouldn't be viewed as the primary characteristics.

Yes, processing speed is an important factor, but it requires more than just slow processing speed as by itself slow processing speed just ends up resulting in generally lower intelligence. It's also a specific trait, rather than an area of disorder, which is why it's not listed, it's usually grouped under executive function. Again, it's a very generalized list, main point being social problems don't cause problems in all the other areas.

I am sorry, I completely misunderstood you when I read your original post. The way I understood the words in the post did not make me understand at all what you just said here or in your response to Ettina. Please forgive my misunderstanding.


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05 Jun 2016, 2:20 pm

And I could be wrong but I think there is more to intelligence than just processing speed. I may be misunderstanding you again though so I apologize if I am.


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05 Jun 2016, 3:55 pm

Well, I worded things pretty poorly, I did say of those areas it makes the most sense for sensory issues to be the root cause, so I should be the one apologizing. Anyway, I think it's that in neurotypicals processing speed is the neurological trait that most closely correlated with IQ. I think the theory is that in addition to solving problems faster, it allows more information to be stored to memory in the same amount of time. But autistic people think differently on some level, so that no longer applies.


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05 Jun 2016, 7:10 pm

Hey, no worries. Sometimes it's hard to get just the right words. I am glad that we can understand each other even if it takes a little time. It's all good. :D


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05 Jun 2016, 9:08 pm

Ganondox wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
Well yes; autism affects the entire brain, not just a single part of just in a single way. It does have specific characteristics and presents itself differently than other disorders but you're right- it's not a social disorder.


Well, autism is diagnosed by behavior, not neurology, and I've always disliked the tendency for people to go to the neurological explanation before the cognitive explanation has been exhausted, and it hasn't.


Actually, they have found the neurological reason for autism. In part it involves an excess number of neuron cells forming in the front part of the brain while the baby is in its mother's womb.

Now, what results from all those extra cells being there, and the abnormal and excessive synaptic pathways that form between them?

The symptoms of autism.

That suggests to me that autism is a neurological difference.

The symptoms of that difference, how it affects the individual...

Social and communication problems.


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05 Jun 2016, 9:10 pm

Yes, the behavior is a result of the neurological factors. Some of the neurological differences have only been seen in Autopsies, side by side Autistic and NT brains being examined together. So you cannot use those findings as a diagnostic tool or you would have to kill the patients to diagnose them.


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05 Jun 2016, 11:39 pm

Sethno wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
Well yes; autism affects the entire brain, not just a single part of just in a single way. It does have specific characteristics and presents itself differently than other disorders but you're right- it's not a social disorder.


Well, autism is diagnosed by behavior, not neurology, and I've always disliked the tendency for people to go to the neurological explanation before the cognitive explanation has been exhausted, and it hasn't.


Actually, they have found the neurological reason for autism. In part it involves an excess number of neuron cells forming in the front part of the brain while the baby is in its mother's womb.

Now, what results from all those extra cells being there, and the abnormal and excessive synaptic pathways that form between them?

The symptoms of autism.

That suggests to me that autism is a neurological difference.

The symptoms of that difference, how it affects the individual...

Social and communication problems.


A million different neurological reasons for autism have been found, that does not change the fact the diagnosis is based on behavior. Also, social and communication problems is no autism, that's only half the traits, that's just SCD under DSM-V.


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