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josh338
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18 Jun 2016, 5:58 am

deepersky wrote:
I was recently diagnosed with Asperger's by a clinical social worker. I then saw a psychologist who specializes in AS, and she said that she couldn't really confirm or deny the diagnosis. She acknowledged a variety of AS traits, which included rigidity, OCD behaviors, sensory issues, special interests and a history of social disconnection and isolation. However, two things kept her from confirming the diagnosis. One was a lack of data regarding my childhood development - I'm 55, with no older surviving relatives.

The other had to do with my capacity for emotional connection, and my current skill as a therapist. Now, I do want to make it clear that I respect and appreciate her opinion and the care she gave to her time with me. That said, I noticed several specific things that seemed to raise her doubts about the diagnosis. The first made reference to my experience at age 13, when a doctor told me that what seemed like stomach-aches were actually a symptom of my being unhappy. It was a complete surprise, but I knew immediately that it was true. I resolved to learn all I could about how to be happy. I knew I was terribly isolated, but instead of trying to reach out to people (which sounded exhausting and confusing), I spent the next 10 yrs trying to understand psychology intellectually, to figure it all out on my own. And I did learn a lot, but ouch! Nonetheless, something about this discovery and my resolve at such a young age seemed to raise some doubt for my psychologist.

At age 22, I stumbled across a group that taught average people techniques for accessing and identifying emotion, sharing with others, and focusing on achieving goals. Their work was highly structured and rational and practical, and I worked with them for 15 years. Toward the end, I became extremely proficient in their approach, and had several people tell me that I was 'naturally therapeutic'. This point also seemed to stir my practitioner's doubts. (The work ultimately led to me getting a master's in social work and becoming a counselor.)

Today, I can enter a room with an upset couple, and be present with them, reflect their feelings, and say gentle, relevant things that help them relax and decide to move forward. I can also speak on such things to a group. At those moments, I am clearly 'highly functional'. Of course, sometimes my actions don't help, and I can grow anxious, or overwhelmed and confused, and start to desperately wish I could never see them again. (Part of the reason I'm going to stop seeing couples!) I always hope that my clients either clearly just need to talk, or want some feedback, or have a direction... That it's fairly straightforward. I can be very subtle, but I need to clear path to follow. I can be very good - but at times I just wish I could share what I know without having to manage the emotional weather of others.

Similarly, at times I am relaxed and friendly with friends, or even sometimes with strangers. Other times, I barely look at people, and am fully of anxiety even with those closest to me. Nevertheless, when it comes to emotional intimacy, I am definitely 'high functioning' as I understand it.

So. I guess I'm curious what anyone thinks about the question of folks with AS discovering deeper, more subtle emotions; expressing them well to others; picking up on others' emotions; and responding skillfully to soothe or connect with others. I'm pretty convinced that I have Asperger's, yet I'm getting the message that I may be too 'therapeutic' to really have it. So I'm conflicted, and I'd love your feedback on the subject. And thank you for letting me speak of this here. It means a lot to think others might understand.

I have seen a therapist with Asperger's and while she lacks empathy, she is remarkably adept at assessing the emotional state of others.

I myself can be clueless and insensitive at times but can be good sometimes at helping friends with their personal problems. I just know what to do.

Anyway, re the diagnosis, the more I learn about Asperger's the more I realize it isn't a condition per se, but some traits that people have in varying degrees. One point I see made here again and again is that we're all different. I don't think you could point to anyone and say that's a textbook case because you'll find Aspies who are extroverts, Aspies who don't suffer from sensual overload or can read faces. etc. And we can and do learn with time, which is why diagnosis depends on early childhood.

Also, something like half of the close relatives of Aspies have BAP and so show some autistic traits, and on the other side, many Aspies display comorbidities such as ADHD. Which is to say that I think that formal diagnosis is a bit of a crock. Different authorities use different criteria, the criteria in the DSM are so vague as to be almost in the tea-leaf reading category, and those criteria keep changing.

As someone who has some Aspie characteristics and some neurotypical ones, e.g., face blind but able to interpret facial expressions, this caused me some personal distress -- I've been told that the formal diagnosis doesn't really matter, but yeah, it does, for any number of reasons. And on the flip side it's sort of become a trendy condition and people who don't really have it are being diagnosed with it by people who aren't qualified to make the diagnosis, which does a real disservice to those of us who struggle with it every day of our lives.

But I think the essence of it is that there's a continuum from BAP through ASD-3 and we're all somewhere on it in whole or in part. If you get a high score on the instruments and identify with the problems people write about here you're either BAP or Aspie or perhaps another one of the absurdly ad hoc categories so beloved by the bureaucrats of the soul -- PDD-NOS, SCD, etc.



BirdInFlight
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18 Jun 2016, 6:49 am

Quoted from josh338 --

Quote:
"And on the flip side it's sort of become a trendy condition and people who don't really have it are being diagnosed with it by people who aren't qualified to make the diagnosis, which does a real disservice to those of us who struggle with it every day of our lives."


You know....I see people write those words here on WP all the time, but how do you know this stuff? What actual evidence do you have that "people who don't really have it are being diagnosed by people who aren't qualified to make the diagnosis" ?

Have you actually personally met all these "people" you're talking about AND all their individual respective diagnosticians?

Are YOU qualified to make diagnoses and therefore you know instantly that someone whose posts you read on WP, or someone you know in real life, or someone you meet once, or whatever the situation, "doesn't really have it"?

I see that statement on WP ALL the time, yet the person making the statement is basing it on pure nothing, except their own fears or biases or their own formation of an opinion that "the spectrum has been stretched too wide to include merely quirky people".

Do you realize that THAT line of thinking does a disservice too?

A disservice to possibly and arguably people who DO HAVE IT, but inept clinicians -- inept in the opposite direction from the one you complain about -- are overlooking them and these people are not getting the guidance in life that they need?

Because I see far more evidence of that happening than evidence that people who "don't have it" are being handed out diagnoses like candy.

Have you ANY idea how hard it is to obtain an appointment for an evaluation when adult, and how expensive when insurance doesn't cover the pursuit of the investigation??

People don't seek an assessment lightly, and clinicians -- many of whom are still of the notions prevalent in 1960, are more inclined to NOT hand out a "Yes you're Autistic!!" gold statuette rather than to hand one out.

You are pulling this "overdiagnosed" stuff out of clear blue nothingness.



ASPartOfMe
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18 Jun 2016, 9:49 am

It is the old "causation does not imply correlation" argument ie if Autism diagnoses are going up, it must be because of overdiagnosis because that is the most obvoius reason, Occam's Razor thinking.

Josh's main issues are with the vagueness and inconsitentacy of Aspergers diagnosis and personal biases of clinicions which is consistant with the topic of this thread. Claiming over diagnosis in a thread about underdiagnosis is inelegant but probably no more than that in this case. Josh joined WP two months ago, he is likely not to have been here to see the numorous claims of trendiness and the hard feelings these claims have caused.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Jun 2016, 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

BirdInFlight
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18 Jun 2016, 9:55 am

True. It's just that when I saw *that* old trope show up again (the claim of overdiagnosis) I had to say something, as it's one of the things that some people here bring up in a contentious and cynical way, based on nothing at all, like they've personally met every one of these people they believe "shouldn't" have been diagnosed. It's a thorn in the side.



Rundownshoe14
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18 Jun 2016, 10:11 am

I personally think autism diagnosis are up because of awareness.
For example:
Let's say you have Aspergers in the 1800 (just an example).You would just think your odd.A better example is in the 1950's where you are just the odd one out.
This would lead to less diagnosis since you would only consider your self odd since a diagnosis for aspergers was not well known.
Autism would only be the people on the low end of the spectrum.
Now in 2016,Autism is now considered a spectrum (don't know since when) and more people know about autism because of awareness and are more likely to seek diagnosis than in the 1950's.
Though that's just speculation and I don't have real numbers to back it up,its something to think about. :D


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kraftiekortie
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18 Jun 2016, 10:47 am

It might not come "naturally" to a person with Asperger's.

It certainly didn't come naturally to me.

But people with Asperger's and other entities on the Spectrum, through experience and through their use of their cognition based upon that experience, have acquired the ability to offer therapy to others.

There is no such thing as being "too therapeutic to have Asperger's." It does come harder to us Spectrumites, though.



BirdInFlight
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18 Jun 2016, 10:59 am

Rundownshoe14, yes, this is approximately what has taken place.



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18 Jun 2016, 11:34 am

When I was growing up in the 1960's and 1970's only some of the most severe autistics were diagnosed. It was considered a very rare childhood condition caused by cold and unloving parents who caused thier children to be not fully human because they presented with little emotion and would meltdown when another human tried to interact with them. An autism diagnosis was not something sought after because in part because the "refrigerator mother" faced severe ostracism for doing that terrible thing to thier kid. If you were not severe you were misdiagnosed with a mental illness or not diagnosed at all and muddled through. There was little or no special education or accomodations. Everybody took the same tests and did the same school work. You were expected to figure things out on your own. If you screwed up you paid the consequences and were expected to learn from them, this included bullying which was considered a normal part of the growing up experience. If you could not make it you were considered mentally defective or ret*d and were sent away usually permanently to an institution which was usually a hellhole.

There were advantages to growing up back then. Much less multitasking and sensory overload and less group schoolwork because as said before you were expected to figure things out on your own. No cell phones or cameras everywhere and little helicopter parenting. You played in your room or went out. There were two main requirements expected of you, make sure your homework gets done and be home in time for dinner and curfew. When I was 13 years old I took public transportation by myself, and rode my bicycle 4, 5, 6 miles from home.

Not knowing why I was different was painful so the obvoius explnations were bieng a weak person or a person we would call a special snowflake today. Certainly my learning process was differrent, slower and sometimes incomplete especially with social cues but I had a lot of free time to figure out what I can and can not do. No behavoiral therapies thank goodness.


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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Jun 2016, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tiankay
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18 Jun 2016, 11:54 am

I agree with Rundownshoe14. I was always "weird", but i would have never considered something like autism for me. All i knew about autism was "They are mentally ret*d, often cant speak, are kinda OCD and are geniuses in some narrow field. - The classic savant LFA that the media portrays. I would never have considered myself to be anything like them. Ok i am kinda OCD about symmetrics but whatever. I only found out that i might be on the spectrum because i heard the term aspergers often enough for me to google it in a moment of pure boredom. When i found the list of symptoms after van-den-bosch i thought i would read a description of myself. After that i learned about the spectrum, saw videos made by autistic people, joined forums, did read about peoples expierences. If id lived in the 1950s, nothing of it would have been there. i just would have lived my life as a weird man, without ever knowing why that is. Awareness is a key factor.

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