Wishing you had no conscience

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Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 71
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,018
Location: Denmark

26 Jul 2016, 4:00 pm

Yeah. I wish, I didn´t put the interests of others before my own.
It´s my life, but if anyone says - "Oh, couldn´t you help me with....." - or "shouldn´t we watch TV together tonight" - I can´t seem to say, that I´ve got other plans - because of their wish!
I mean, I should be glad, because a lot of people are left alone - and I´ve got friends - but "their wish is my command" - and I have difficulty changing that.

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ToughDiamond
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26 Jul 2016, 7:06 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

This is me too.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I have "issues" I want to forget. As far as I'm concerned, I've "done my time" as far as being punished for any wrongdoing. The inability to "forget" it and put it behind me pretty much ruins my life.

I equate guilt with self-loathing, and my own experiences with it strongly suggest that my behaviour is more noble without it.

Aristophanes
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26 Jul 2016, 7:44 pm

Fnord wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Fnord wrote:

.....nor do I have any need for a sense of "Shared Guilt".

I'm with you on that one. I once read in a school history book that "we" have much to be ashamed of over "our" actions during the days of the British Empire. Pardon me for not stopping that.

Yeah, and pardon me for not having prevented the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 12 years before I was born.

:roll:

I'm going to disagree with you on that: part of being an American is owning up to our own history, both good and bad. You can't just wave the flag and say rah rah I'm an American and it's great without also accepting bad parts of our history that affect us to this day. Were you and I personally responsible for the A-bomb? No, but our country does benefit from it today and thus so do we as citizens-- and that does entail some responsibility. Namely, not that we feel "guilt" per say, but that we own up to our history and accept it, so as not to repeat it.

On a side note: I'm not actually against the dropping of the bomb since it most likely saved more lives than it killed, but the philosophy is the same: if you're part of a society you accept it's history as your own because you benefit from it.

Tiankay
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26 Jul 2016, 8:07 pm

Fnord wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Fnord wrote:

.....nor do I have any need for a sense of "Shared Guilt".

I'm with you on that one. I once read in a school history book that "we" have much to be ashamed of over "our" actions during the days of the British Empire. Pardon me for not stopping that.

Yeah, and pardon me for not having prevented the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 12 years before I was born.

:roll:

I can top that one. Excuse me for the horrible things my grand-grandfather has done in WW2 over 50 years before i was even born. And its not even funny, alot of people around the globe still believe all germans are nazis and this whole "collective guilt" BS is an integral part of our culture down here... :?:

Peace
TK

ToughDiamond
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26 Jul 2016, 8:44 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

You can't just wave the flag and say rah rah I'm an American and it's great without also accepting bad parts of our history that affect us to this day.

I agree, if a person morally identifies with a country, then I guess they share the responsibility for what it does. But I'm anything but a nationalist. I don't even recognise "Britishness" as a meaningful term. I'm just one of England's downtrodden masses, and I refuse to take credit or blame for the behaviour of the UK's ruling elite, who don't act in my name. That's why you won't find a Union Jack in my yard.

Aristophanes
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26 Jul 2016, 9:09 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

You can't just wave the flag and say rah rah I'm an American and it's great without also accepting bad parts of our history that affect us to this day.

It's not even about nationalism, or the powers that be. If you're in the country, you benefit from it's history-- the country is where it is because of it's past. I'm not saying feel guilty about it-- same with modern Germans and WWII as the previous poster mentioned-- I'm saying the responsibility is accepting it. If you accept it, you're less likely to allow current powers to repeat the same mistakes, which is not only an honorable deed, but also a necessary one for countries to evolve. That doesn't mean you need to forget all the good things your country has accomplished either, merely that you know the bad as well, lest the citizenry keep making the same mistakes repeatedly.

Tiankay
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26 Jul 2016, 9:43 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

I'm saying the responsibility is accepting it.

Could you please explain to me what you mean? I dont understand how you can be responsible for something you had nothing to do with? It happened. Thats a fact, it cant be denied. So i accept it happened, and that my life today would be different if it didnt. But i personally had nothing to do with it, and i dont identifiy with it. There are 2 generations of people between me and that Wehrmacht soldier. When i was born, the berlin wall was down and even the cold war was already done for 3 years. I agree that we should acknowledge the past, and learn from the mistakes our ancestors made. But there is no logical reason to feel guilt about them...

Peace
TK

Aristophanes
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26 Jul 2016, 10:23 pm

Tiankay wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

I'm saying the responsibility is accepting it.

You didn't read it closely, I never said you should feel guilty, I said you should accept it happened because it still influences your life regardless of whether you were involved or not. You're part of a nation, that nation has history, you are a part of that history-- that's where conscience comes in. If you deny that it happened, deny that it influences you, etc, you're setting yourself and your nation up to repeat the same mistakes of the past. That's my point. I don't feel guilty for the plight of the Native Americans in my country, but I do accept what happened, and do accept that I have gotten benefits from their downfall. I also accept it was atrocious what happened to the Native Americans-- enough so you'll see my social conscience take over when current groups try to repeat those bad behaviors. That's all part of the responsibility of being a citizen-- accepting your history and learning from it, so your nation doesn't keep repeating mistakes over and over.

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27 Jul 2016, 12:35 am

I suffer from terrible flashbacks from times where I've acted socially inappropriately, I notice that most other people don't have this problem they say socially inappropriate things hurtful things and don't care about the consequences. I can't say that I'm not just a bit envious.

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28 Jul 2016, 4:12 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

You can't just wave the flag and say rah rah I'm an American and it's great without also accepting bad parts of our history that affect us to this day.

It's not even about nationalism, or the powers that be.

Flag waving and saying "rah rah I'm an American and it's great" isn't about nationalism?

ToughDiamond
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28 Jul 2016, 4:22 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

If you're in the country, you benefit from it's history-- the country is where it is because of it's past. I'm not saying feel guilty about it-- same with modern Germans and WWII as the previous poster mentioned-- I'm saying the responsibility is accepting it. If you accept it, you're less likely to allow current powers to repeat the same mistakes, which is not only an honorable deed, but also a necessary one for countries to evolve. That doesn't mean you need to forget all the good things your country has accomplished either, merely that you know the bad as well, lest the citizenry keep making the same mistakes repeatedly.

It seems fairly clear that my original point was simply that I refuse to be personally ashamed about the actions of others over whom I had no control. Others were saying much the same thing. You then said you were going to disagree on that. But now you say that you aren't saying feel guilty about it. You're entitled to give your opinion of course, but I don't see why you presented it as a challenge to my view.

aja675
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16 Aug 2016, 9:26 am

I only wish this because I used to be the kind of person who didn't cry over every other tragedy in this world and I somehow got the idea that I was cold-hearted for it.

aja675
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16 Aug 2016, 9:30 am

I don't want to be the kind of person who's conscience-free enough to do mean things, I just want to be the kind of person whose family you could kill in front of me and I wouldn't shed a single tear. I wish that the human race could be empathetic enough not to be mean, but conscience-free enough to be incapable of guilt or grief.

AutieUberAlles
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16 Aug 2016, 11:52 am

I dont feel bad about many things. Just I wouldnt qualify as a sociopath either since I lack the will to manipulate for personal gain, unless I want to learn about people for research.

Eclipse247
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16 Aug 2016, 12:20 pm

LanguageMeterScholar wrote:

I have watched many times a total lack of empathy from 'normal' people towards the suffering they cause to others that would not go out of place with a sociopath imo. My conscience is to active for that. Thats why I am wondering if I have AS like my son.

aja675
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17 Aug 2016, 8:20 am

AutieUberAlles wrote:

I dont feel bad about many things. Just I wouldnt qualify as a sociopath either since I lack the will to manipulate for personal gain, unless I want to learn about people for research.

This is the kind of person I used to be.

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