23 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm
BirdInFlight
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Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
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23 Jun 2016, 5:36 pm
24 Jun 2016, 2:54 am
TSD wrote:
Thank you everyone that has responded to my post.
Ganondox - I really appreciate you breaking some of this down for me.
Ganondox - I really appreciate you breaking some of this down for me.
Well, you know him better than I do.
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In the empathy department, I should have included that there have been times when he's been empathetic. An example of one of the times he wasn't empathetic (in which I would think is clear indication of pain), is a time when I cut my hand open via box cutter. After I'd done so I was holding my arm over the sink and grabbing my sliced hand with the other to try to keep pressure on it, and he stayed sitting down and not saying anything. I asked him if he could help me get the emergency kit and he seemed to get even a little angry over my urgency. I'll just say that I was losing a lot of blood and was getting dizzy. He finally got the box and left it next to me and then went into the other room without saying anything. At the time I just thought it was bizarre. Thinking back I also wonder if it had to do with cotton gauzes and those types of medical instruments because of his repulsion to cotton. This is a huge sensory no-no for him.
The fact he didn't handle the cotton gauzes may be due to his sensory issues, but I think know why generally he acted like he. It sounds like he didn't eve notice you sliced his hand until you asked him to get the medical box and acted with frustration for being interrupted, and still didn't process what was happening until a bit before he got the box, then it sounds like he went to the other room because either it bothered him to see you hurt or he was ashamed for not being more responsible. Alternatively, he might have noticed what happened and didn't know what do and was frustrated over that, then existing frustration combined with mirroring your urgency he flared up when you talked to him. Let me give you an example from my own life: A little over a week ago, I was in a family cabin in Montana. My uncle and grandfather were working on technical stuff like electrical wiring and forestry, while I mainly helped with babysitting my second cousins and helping their mother with cooking and cleaning. We were all together in the same car going back home in Utah, the children were in the back of the van, and at this point I was in the passenger seat while my uncle drove. So I was sitting there, I think I was doing something on my phone but I don't remember well, and then I heard screaming and people were screaming at me and my initial reaction was just to freeze up until I realized that people were asking for napkins and I explained there were no napkins up here and to stop screaming at me. I looked back behind me, but couldn't see what was going on because it was behind my seat. After the mother explained she was disappointed that I didn't just spring into action and then me and my uncle explained I'm basically incapable of doing that, I do NOT think clearly under pressure. After that I finally asked what happened as I STILL didn't know what was going on: the elder girl throwup. Afterwards I proved to be much more up to the task of entertaining the children while things were cleaned up.
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When he has said "just being honest" after saying something hurtful such as "you're an as*hole and you're not worthy" when he is in a stage of seeing red... Yes, I would prefer he keep those thoughts to himself. I'm not asking for him to lie. In those emotional and irrational states, he's told me that he really doesn't mean what he says when he's angry and that he has intended a lot of the nasty words to be hurtful at the time. To me it's destructive and creates further problems that aren't necessary.
Thanks for further explanation. This is not an issue with autistic honesty, this is an issue with anger management, and he needs to work on it. It sounds like he doesn't like doing it, so he should be done for doing something to improve that.
As far as the eye contact, I have accepted it. I am a big eye contact person and that is why it is one of the first things I noticed. When we discuss something serious, I often suggest we lie down next to each other in a dark bedroom so he can better focus and we can be physically close. This seems to be very helpful.
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I used the example of my fiance finding an "out" to the social etiquette considered "normal" in situations such as dinner shared around a table. While I've read that some people on ASD do have a tremendous sensitivity to sound, social settings are the only time that I've heard him state that he's heard something and become overly focused on. From what I've gathered, what is true for some people with ASD isn't true for others. So while a lot of those with ASD do have a sensitivity to sound, I don't have the impression that he is one of them. He also finds other distractions beyond "hearing something" in these times... such as seeing a cat walking by, and will get up from the table mid conversation to become absorbed with the cat (he doesn't like cats, and I've never seen him take any sort of notice to them other than in a similar scenario), or whatever else the object of focus is. He always has to be facing a window when we are in a restaurant or eating with someone else, but that circumstance or similar circumstances are the only times he makes this a priority. Another example... He once got up from a table when a family member of mine was trying to engage with him, to zoom in on the type of paint on a wall next door. Again, not something he would ever be interested in. And before these types of "distractions" I always notice him struggling with eye contact and social mannerisms.
I still think he legitimately heard the sound, it's just a matter of finding dinner conversation stressful and looking for an excuse to get out of it. Quote:
Regarding the dynamics of conversation... I would love to find a system that works for us. We have tried using an object that each of us holds when we are talking, and I try to be as clear and literal as possible with him. If anyone has further suggestions I would love to hear them. More than anything I want us to be able to comprehend and understand what the other is saying so we don't get snagged up and lose focus over specific wording.
Well, autistic people tend to be very literal, so for him specific wording may be the difference between understanding what you said and completely misinterpreting it, so just try to be precise and slow things down. Quote:
Thank you for explaining the misinterpretations. When he gets the wrong idea of my attitude I try my best to explain my intentions. It isn't natural for me to be monotone, and I don't have this issue with other people I converse with. So it's difficult for me to identify sometimes what he's seeing that others don't. I've asked him to tell me what has made him think I've acted a certain undesirable way (so I can learn to change it when interacting with him), but he is very vague and doesn't give me specifics. I can't begin to remedy what I have no knowledge of.
For clarification, are you specifically trying to be monotone in response to what he says? That might make things even worse, as you aren't usually monotone so then it might stand out. I personally find monotonous voices to be extremely grating, and I have a very wide range of intonation unless I'm just too nervous. There is also more to inflection than just intonation, so maybe other things are still bleeding through, and yes, it's real hard to describe. But yeah, I know that feel, can't fix a problem when you don't know the problem. Quote:
Generalizing that I tell him I'm busy every time he tries to interact isn't accurate. It does happen on occasion, and one of the things we share in common is that we are both distracted easily. For this reason I thought he might better be able to understand and relate to my wanting to revisit the conversation at a later time when I can give my full attention (which I do tell him when I'm trying to hone in on whatever I'm doing, so he doesn't take it personally). A lot of the time I actually drop whatever I was currently doing to invite the conversation, but he doesn't seem to appreciate or realize it after I've literally put whatever was in front of me to the side. I cannot always do this. I have just started a new career that involves a LOT of my attention at home, and I'm doing my best to remind him that I always want to hear what he has to say. He seems to shut down when I tell him I'd like to revisit a topic at a later time as I suggest as to give him my undivided attention. When I try to set up a time that we can talk, he commonly brushes it off and says that he doesn't know whether or not he'll be up for it at any other time, ever. Sometimes when I try to revisit it he will engage with me, but more often he no longer seems interested.
Doesn't matter if it's literally everytime, people tend to remember the negative experiences better. Anyway, if it's about a particularly emotionally weighty issue than chances are he can only in fact talk about it when he's in the write mood. Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. On the plus side, it's good practice for dealing with children.
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I get concerned that he learns behaviors through tv and media. He watches a lot of negative shows (like Cops, TMZ and forensic files) that paint people's social skills and vindictiveness to be disgusting. I feel that he applies this to reality which pushes him to be further paranoid that people as a whole are "bad". He is very surprised and intrigued when he sees people, including me, act in a way that can only be interpreted as genuinely well-intended and kind.
I'm pretty much the exact opposite, I'm very idealistic, maybe too trusting. Considering his has PTSD, it's entirely possible this is not due to tv-shows, but due to negative experiences in the past (being suspicious of social skills in particular might be suggesting of abuse). In turn that might draw him towards shows with a more cynical outlook. I personally like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Have you talked with him at all about this? If you discover he is modeling after the tv-shows, you can go in the old tv being fiction part and that it's exaggerated for the sake of drama. "vindictiveness to be disgusting" Generally speaking, vindictiveness IS disgusting. Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. It being noble is the exception rather than the rule.
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I understand the issue with spontaneity, and it's not an expectation by any means. It is difficult to plan things because a lot of the time he will say he does not know how he will be "feeling" or what kind of mood he will be in at a specific time in the future. When I push him to do things with me, there hasn't been a time that he's regretted it, and he later tells me that he had a good time and thanks me for insisting on activities. I am very careful not to put him in situations that might make him further lose his sense of safety in the world. While I've been on the fence about pushing him to get out there, when I do, it seems to be help him overcome some fears and irrational views. When he does open up and tell me his concerns, I try to assist him in thinking rationally about matters by using facts and letting him know I am there when he gets uncomfortable.
Well if he's only had good experiences with it so far, I suggest keep doing it.
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I do not know why he needs a specific area on the counter completely clear at all times. I have asked him why and he doesn't go into detail.
Well, I guess you should just keep it clean then.
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When he doesn't acknowledge some of the things I say with a response, I do consider his thought process. I have explained what is considered "normal" as far as the give and take of communication and the nature of it. I struggle to find ways to teach him sometimes what is and isn't typical because I don't want to come across as treating him like a child.
Sometimes, you have to teach people like they are children because frankly it's the best way to teach, and it's the only way they are going to learn. Yeah, they'll get offended, but sometimes that's necessary in the long run, it's just a matter of softening the blow enough that they actually listen. Anyway, regarding what this was a response to regarding knowing when he should know when to respond, be creative. Maybe the solution ISN'T to try to explain him the way conversations work as maybe no matter what you do he's never gonna just naturally pick up on it (I don't think you quite understand his thought process, no one can truly comprehend how someone else thinks), but instead find some other way of signalling that you expect a response.
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He is most avoidant in talking about himself when I ask questions about his childhood. I think this is important, because I feel it has an influence on who he is and how he views the world and the people in it, and I can better understand where he is coming from and why. I have an idea that he's had some issues growing up. He has told me that his father shut down his emotions (this isn't good for any person, and I imagine it's particularly detrimental with a person who struggles with emotion more than normal). I feel this is a factor in him being able to identify his feelings. Logically, I believe that if I knew some of the things he's gone through, I would better know what to avoid and what to encourage. I have had a lot of obstacles throughout my life, and have been very open with him and shared the things I've gone through. I am an alcoholic and he has a history of drug and alcohol abuse. While I used it to cope with realities that I found easier to avoid in the past, he used alcohol to help feel "normal" socially. We both became sober early June of last year (we have both come so far and I am so proud of each of us). It's a huge accomplishment. I don't have a problem talking about my struggles, and I know by doing so it helps give an opportunity for him to elaborate on his. I allow myself to be vulnerable to him and affirm that he can be so with me too, because there are a lot of things I can relate to. And if I can't personally, I sure as hell will listen enough to be able to paint a picture of what he's gone through, this includes the ways in which our thinking processes differentiate. When I open up and don't get much of a response, I try to ask him questions like, "have you ever felt that way?" or "have you ever been in a similar situation?" Sometimes he will give me a vague yes or no, and others he will say something along the lines of "not really", and have nothing more to say about it. When he voluntarily mentions anything related to his childhood, I let him know I'd love to hear more and ask him carefully thought out and worded questions (I don't want him to feel additional pressure to talk about something that's difficult for him). I am not judgmental, and when he does share things with me I thank him and tell him how much it means to me. The subjects in which he is often avoidant are not limited to childhood, but also in present day scenarios. The past just happened to be what came to mind first and foremost. If anyone has other ideas that might help us get to know each other in this sense, and be able to communicate about it, please let me know.
Considering the fact he is diagnosed with PTSD, the fact he is reluctant to talk about his childhood might be indicative of some sort of abuse. The fact he is concerned about what your father thinks of him makes me wonder on what the relationship with his own father is like. Anyway, while it's important to know about these things, DON'T PUSH. He has to tell you on his own terms, or else you're going to make things worse. You can also try to get information out of his family or other people who knew him as a child. So your approach seems to be good, keep it up.
Thank you for reminding me to reiterate the reasons behind what is appropriate and what isn't.
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Yes, I agree that it seems a very narcissistic trait. I've been careful not to label him as narcissistic though. I've read many articles that explain a confusion between narcissism and ASD. If you google "Narcissism or ASD", you might see my dilemma in trying to work out which it is. And of course there's the chance that it's a little bit of both.
[/quote]Nothing you've said about him sounds particularly narcissistic other than this, though this is focuses on autistic traits, not narcissistic ones. But even from your description he sounds more empathetic than a narcissist would be. Again, he's probably interested in more than just things which involve him, you just don't know about them. Still might be a narcissist though, I only know what you tell me.
