Aspergers is not an excuse.

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Often when people say do not use Aspergers or anything as an excuse it means or is implied you can do anything and if you do not you are lazy. People who have been constantly berated for bieng lazy and using excuses will feel defensive at the "not an excuse" wording feeling thier charactor is bieng attacked once again.

IMHO the OP did not intend a negative meaning "it *is* possible to reach you goals" does not mean "you can do anything you want if you just try harder". It was a very good message. Welcome back.

I doubt that. There are many very accomplished and successful people on WP, their success is something they keep separate from their life on the spectrum.
The narrative offsite is continually about 'superspergers', who despite all odds succeed. The OP has bought into this narrative. Each person who buys into the narrative becomes an advocate for the status quo, even unwillingly. It is not about perseverance, hope, or 'if I can do it, so can you'. It's about changing the narrative even if it's only online.
The OP came here to tell the WP community exactly what? He succeeded despite being a adolescent misanthrope. He succeeded because he managed to graduate, get a girlfriend, had a mom, and managed to get the his first job on his first job interview. None of this is helpful, neither to me nor to anyone who is looking for 'safe haven' from the narrative they're facing offsite.

Wether someone agrees or disagrees, however, is utterly irrelevant. The MAIN point I wanted to make, despite that it was the second thing I said and not the first (I really must order my thoughts better).... was simply not to act like that. There's a difference between disagreeing with the OP or not liking their post, and coming in with what is very, very easily perceived as a direct insult. At other forums I go to that post of yours would have drawn a certain type of response, and this topic likely would have gone up in flames. We fortunately dont have a particularly fiery group here though. Usually. There have been fights in this place but not all that often, thankfully. Not so many flamewars.

One way or another, also, dont forget where you are. There's no way to know what someone's motives are here, considering how absurdly different we all are. What you said before seems to mean that you've magically assumed that you know what the reason is behind the OP's post, regardless of the subject matter, which cant actually be known for sure outside of a direct discussion with them about it. And assumptions are pointless. Some people DO post stuff like that simply because they genuinely are trying to help... again, wether or not you agree with the method is irrelevant. They should be quite allowed to do that without being pestered for it. Isnt that what we all came here to AVOID?

Whatever the OP's motives for making the post might be, they're not insulting anyone directly or breaking any rules. Nor are they jumping into someone ELSE'S topic and saying all of this stuff (which would be a very different issue; that's when the real problems tend to start). And perhaps someone out there might actually read it and find it helpful. If even one person gets a bit of help from it, or a bit of inspiration... doesnt that make it worth it?




Aye, the wording can definitely be like that sometimes. Though, one thing I've found from watching this forum is that the people that really do try to give out the "well such-and-such isnt working because you're lazy" message are also the sorts to dive into other topics in an aggressive manner to say those things, since making a super-blatant topic of that sort wont exactly attract people to read the message. In this specific case, I dont think that was the intention (of course, could be wrong), but the wording of some parts, particularly the subject line, could be better. Overall it seemed to be more of an attempt at an inspirational storytelling from the OP's experiences though, not an aggressive "Bah, do better!" thing. That's how it reads to me, anyway. Alot of us here tend to try to get messages out by talking through our own experiences, so that sort of thing is common here. Which is an interesting topic in and of itself, when I think about it, I've noticed that sort of thing tends to bug alot of NT people... hmmm. Worth more pondering, that.

Either way, the topic title and the other couple of bits sounds like the exact sort of misphrasing I often do. Meaning thus gets distorted, when I do that. And then derp results after that happens.

But, again, no way to know for sure.

At the end of the day everyone is different. Some people have different strengths than others, some have different weaknesses than others. Some people have certain goals in life while others have entirely different goals. Some people don't have any goals at all and, if that is their choice, what gives anyone else the right to tell them that they're wrong? Thankfully we are all individuals and we all live or own separate lives, which is probably the best for all concerned.

No. It doesn't. If 99 people are offended and 1 person is "helped' then it doesn't make it OK to have offended 99 people.

In any case, the only type of person likely to be "helped" by the OP's instruction to "never use AS as an excuse" would be a person who has very little life experience of living with confirmed diagnosis of Asperger's, and has only just found out about their condition and naively assumes that if they emulate everything the OP has done, all their problems will be solved.

The OP himself does not yet have enough life experience to be aware that his own life is by no means magically "sorted" just because he currently has a girlfriend and currently has a job. I'd like to see him come back here in 10 or 20 years' time and tell us whether he isn't slightly more jaded and world-weary, and whether some of his youthful naivité and optimism hasn't been drained out of him due to life not exactly going as he planned.



No it wasn't. It was a very bad message. You have only quoted the part of his message that you want to focus on. What about the part where the OP said:



As Klakker has pointed out, some of us are subjected to being told things like that on a daily basis by NTs. The last thing we want is to come here and be slagged off and have people who claim to be fellow Aspergians say it to us as well.

AS is a disability. A disability is a valid excuse for not being able to do certain things that others can do. Being told not to use your disability as an "excuse" is offensive because it implies that you're being lazy and not even trying. That is offensive.

At the OP's age, I had also got a job, was in a relationship, and had moved to a new country.

So what?

None of those things will solve ANY of the problems posed by Asperger's.

They will not reduce social anxiety. If anything, they will increase it.

They will not reduce insomnia. If anything, they will increase it.

They will not stop people bullying you or calling you "weird". In many ways, being in the workplace can be like being back at school. I was bullied all my school life, and then I was bullied all my working life as well. How nice. /sarcasm.

Getting a job is not a "magic fix" and if the OP thinks it is, he has a lot to learn.

Oh Ashbashbeard. I'm really sorry this thread has devolved like this.

I read your story and I really liked it. I especially like how you are honest about how you've struggled but that you've rallied and headed back into creating a life for yourself. I like hearing stories of other young people casting about, trying to find something that works for them. I was very similar. And (knock-wood) I seem to have found something that works for me. I've held the same job for almost 6 years now! 6 years! That's longer than I've ever had a job before. It is exciting and I do feel like I've earned the right to brag. It worked hard on creating that.

It's really exciting that you've found a woman who supports you in a way that feels good. And that you're finding your way into a career that fits.

I'm sure you'll have more stretches of time where everything feels impossible, but that's life. We all have times when we just can't see how things could possibly work out. And then then do, and we cycle through good times again.

I think the word "excuse" in the title was a little inflammatory, but reading your whole post instead of just judging on the title alone, I can see your point. There were lots of time that I wanted to simply give in and declare that I'm disabled. Not just because of autism, but I also suffer from a chronic daily migraine condition with vertigo. It really sucks. There are lots of time when I have to tell myself not to use my disabilities as an excuse. Lots of times I need to grit my teeth an make myself go forward. I know that its not possible for everyone. For example, my friend with quadriplegia wouldn't be able to grit her teeth and walk. But for me and my specific level of disability, and the job I created for myself, it is possible and beneficial for me to do so.

I hope the right people read your story and are inspired to keep going, even when times get ruff. And I hope you take what you've written here and put it somewhere safe so that you can read it the next time life isn't going your way.

The thread title is actually misleading-----he should change it, actually. The OP doesn't mean to imply that at all.

if 100 people read the entire message, I doubt that 10 people will be offended by it.

I think some people on these boards are so raw and upset that hearing about anyone succeeding would making them lash out.

Human nature - its hard to hear someone else be happy when you are miserable.

But not everyone who has autism is miserable. Not even close. In fact, I'd say statistically, we're about the same as NTs on the old misery index.

Many people go through all kinds of crap. Many people overcome it.

Just don't get a criminal record, and don't have many judgements on your record, and the path to success will be easier.

I've gone through a moderate amount of crap; others have gone through much worse.

Some people I know who have gone through "much worse" have succeeded much more than I succeeded.

I've succeeded in a moderate way, not a great way. I've made mistakes and I'm paying for them.

Exactly.

I wanted to elaborate but I'm too tired right now. This and the previous post made by somanyspoons sum it up rather well for me too.

Good luck to you Ashbashbeard, I'm glad you're doing well and I know what it's like to feel defeated and hopeless and have a very different life years, even decades later.

Firstly I have not been diagnosed.

Secondly I can see both sides here.

The OP is in a very positive place and just wanted to share his experience in the hope of inspiring other Aspies to do the same , I doubt his reason for posting was to gloat or offend.

On the flip side I can see how the post might offend Aspies who feel they or others are not capable of achieving what the OP has.

I think most disorders or illnesses of the brain are on a spectrum and they affect everyone differently thus treatment that works for some does not work for others.

So my take on this thread is that the OP has done nothing wrong and may of posted information that some may find useful. It could be also said that some will find this thread useless possibly even damaging but hey thats life , it's not supposed to be fair , is it?

Seems like I fit the profile. I was diagnosed pretty recently and the post made me think "if I just emulate what he said I will succeed". Actually I have been thinking about just moving to a big city and starting anew, looking for a job there without much help from anybody but either anxiety, lack of confidence or logical thinking(can't differentiate right now) tells me it would be pretty stupid because I don't even know how to find a place to live and I get huge anxiety while reading job offers so I probably wouldn't be able to find a job and would have to return where I am after wasting all money(and probably being attacked, raped or conned). I am not sure if I would be able to survive that huge hit in my self confidence. I might end up killing myself.

The post actually makes me feel bad about myself. Apparently if I only were brave enough I would succeed but I am a coward. I should be brave and just do it. Jump in blind and do whatever. But it would be stupidity...

^^ You're not a coward. You just have anxiety. You're afraid that you'll be left high and dry should you fail

I wish your family would provide more of a safety net for you.

How would you feel about working with autistic people? Do they have much resources like that in Poland?

By the time I turned 30 I thought it was a smashing success that I wasn't dead or in jail like the rest of my siblings and like I've been told I'll end up my whole life.

I don't have a problem with hearing about somebody succeeding. I do have a problem with somebody telling others that, on the basis of their own success, other people need to stop making "excuses"



Personally that's not why it offends me. I am more than capable of achieving what the OP has done. I have already achieved much more than the OP has. As stated, at the OP's age I also moved to a new country, found myself a job, had relationships, etc. So what?

What offends me is that the OP feels that he can take it upon himself to patronise the entire forum by arrogantly dishing out unsolicited advice and telling us not to use our AS as an "excuse".

I get enough of that from my estranged family. I don't want to come on here and read stuff like that here. It's very offensive.

The OP apparently feels that it's OK for him to lecture a bunch of perfect strangers and tell them not to make "excuses"

That is a trigger for me because I am sick of my nasty family telling me the very same hurtful thing that the OP has said, rather than recognising that I have a genuine disability and AS is often a valid justification for failing in the NT world, not an "excuse".

The OP says he has been in his first job for a mere seven months. He hasn't stuck it out for very long. How is he going to feel after he's stuck it out for seven YEARS? or SEVENTEEN YEARS? By then he might be having a nervous breakdown or been sacked from multiple jobs.

When he is in the middle of his first nervous breakdown he will doubtless not appreciate it if some naive youngster comes along and breathlessly tells him not to use his AS as an "excuse"

Would it be OK to go onto a forum for blind people and tell them "never use your blindness as an excuse for not being able to read"?? :

Or would it be OK go onto a forum for deaf people and tell them "never use your deafness as an excuse for not being able to hear"??

Clearly not. Why, then, are people standing up for the OP who came onto a forum for autistic people and told us never to use our AS as an excuse for not being able to achieve our life goals for employment, relationships, and independent living?