Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Is there a degree of elitism at play ?

Page 2 of 4 [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,836
Location: Long Island, New York

02 Jan 2017, 1:51 pm

voidnull wrote:
From what I can see, Aspies diagnosed in younger years seem more negative toward the condition than Aspies who were diagnosed in later adulthood. I'm assuming this is due to the difference in how the condition has been introduced into our lives. Diagnosis in childhood seems to lead Aspies to see the condition as more of a disability. Diagnosis in adulthood seems to commonly lead to a more positive perspective. In those cases Asperger's represents a release from the self-loathing and inward frustration that we always assumed was our own fault.

I can't say that I've seen any elitism from either the late or the early diagnosed. I've seen Aspies who haven't found any Aspie super powers yet, who have only experienced the bad sides of the condition with none of the respective "good"s, and they've told me that my positive attitude toward the condition actually annoys them or degrades their experience. I can fully understand that, and have adjusted myself accordingly. Before mixing with other Aspies, I had never even considered that my positive attitude could have a negative effect on them.


Overall from what I have noticed the younger diagnosed are more negative about autism but those that are positive are really positive. Us old farts tend to have a more balanced view. This is not a autism diagnosis thing but a experience and maturity thing.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,836
Location: Long Island, New York

02 Jan 2017, 2:04 pm

ArielsSong wrote:
I think passing through life without a diagnosis makes people more 'normal'. It doesn't get rid of the struggles and stress, but somehow people find their way. They have no choice. As far as everyone is concerned, and as far as they're concerned, they are normal. So, they're on the same playing field as everyone else.

It's not necessarily that people were not diagnosed because they're so 'normal', but that they became that way because they weren't diagnosed. Cause and effect, and working out which is which, is complicated.

People that are diagnosed earlier have accommodations and 'special treatment' from an early age. This avoids that "what is wrong with me?!", but it does raise a different type of autistic person, I think.

Which is best? Who knows, really? I partly wish that I'd known much earlier in life, but at the same time there is a huge part of me feeling grateful for that not being the case.

I believe that if awareness had been better, I would have been treated differently. I would have been raised as a disabled person. And whilst life would have been significantly easier for me emotionally, because of it, would I trade that for the complete independence and 'normality' I have now? I can't say.

These are the situations. For the people living them, they can't be changed. I think there are positives and negatives to both. But, I can understand why a younger person that has spent most of their lives being raised as 'disabled' would struggle to think of a whole generation that weren't. Perhaps, it's an insight into what they could have been - for better or worse - had they not been diagnosed. And it's a confusing thing to think about, even for me as a grown woman!


Yes and no it depended on the person and thier surroundings. If a person was too severe to make it they were institutionalized. If they were mild and were given occasional lectures and encouraged to be normal by thier parents and suffered consequences for specific behavoirs then they are probably more normal today. No matter how mildly autistic they are if they were constantaly abused emotionally and physically at school and at home for thier autistic traits it has not likely went well. But also depends on the person, the often discussed user Fnord was abused badly and eventually thrown into the street but ended up with a very succussful career and marriage.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


iliketrees
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,155
Location: Earth

02 Jan 2017, 2:40 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Ie those fortunate enough to be born at a time when recognition of autism was greater, and access to a diagnosis easier, being somewhat dismissive/critical of those of us from an earlier era who have struggled for professional recognition of our problems.

Just because there was greater recognition doesn't mean we benefited from it, you know? It was still poor compared to now, the diagnostic rate has increased massively - in the US it's about 10x higher now than when I was a toddler I believe. I wasn't diagnosed until 2015, by which time I'd finished school, so I had no support, no accommodation, no special treatment growing up. There's definitely an assumption that because we're young we got diagnosed early but that's not necessarily the case.



voidnull
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2016
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 181
Location: UK

02 Jan 2017, 3:45 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Us old farts tend to have a more balanced view. This is not a autism diagnosis thing but a experience and maturity thing.


Yeah good point.


_________________
[DIAG2015]-[AQ45/50]-[EQ32/80-SQ78/80]-[ASD167/200-NT75/200]-[ALO124-RGD132-PRG132]-[NIS68]
[Play Vawe here]-[Play Severance here]


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

02 Jan 2017, 4:39 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Ie those fortunate enough to be born at a time when recognition of autism was greater, and access to a diagnosis easier, being somewhat dismissive/critical of those of us from an earlier era who have struggled for professional recognition of our problems.


I think it also has to do with the degree of autism. A lot of younger people diagnosed as children still attend mainstream school and are able to perform adequately or so it might seem. And then you have those both older and younger who describe their autism as just being different neurotype rather than autism being a disorder or a disability. And some people even go on to describe themselves as having superior abilities and any negative aspects of their autism is only a result of how society regards them. The whole misunderstood advanced being special snowflake indigo child thing.

There's a certain point in all of this where I start becoming skeptical.



EclecticWarrior
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,001
Location: Cool places

02 Jan 2017, 6:43 pm

I've noticed a lot more anti-NT sentiment from the younger generation, like "neurodiversity shouldn't include NTs" which to me is a bit hypocritical considering it contains the word "diverse".


_________________
~Zinc Alloy aka. Russell~

WP's most sparkling member.

DX classic autism 1995, AS 2003, depression 2008

~INFP~


Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,885
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

02 Jan 2017, 7:24 pm

I don't compare my life to anyone. I couldn't anymore.
I don't look up or down to those who were helped or those who truly needed it, nor had doubts who couldn't or didn't.

My life... Can't be compared -- I'll be 'too fortunate' and 'too undeserving'. Maybe 'too lucky' in both worlds, that I'd choose a harder and harsher life sometimes, that I'd give it to someone more deserving.
I don't like this feeling, the feeling like I owe the world of everything and I had no clue how or what to give.


All I do is watch others. I'm "free" but all I do is watch, and take things slowly. :lol:


_________________
Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).

Lose more time here - Updates at least once a week.


CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 117,579
Location: In my little Olympic World of peace and love

02 Jan 2017, 7:42 pm

I'm okay with being on the spectrum and I celebrate my differences. If there is any elitism, I don't take any part in it.


_________________
The Family Enigma


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

02 Jan 2017, 11:09 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Ie those fortunate enough to be born at a time when recognition of autism was greater, and access to a diagnosis easier, being somewhat dismissive/critical of those of us from an earlier era who have struggled for professional recognition of our problems.


"Elitism" is not the word I would use to describe what I observe. There are types of "elitism" on WP-like some officially dxd folks are snooty toward the self diagnosed (usually folks within the same younger generation).



But SOME...some...of the younger (and early in life diagnosed) members do express envy for the older late in life diagnosed folks. So there is "late diagnosis envy" among some. Why anyone would have that kind of envy is beyond me, because it doesnt make any sense. The early diagnosed had all of the advantages, and have no downside. But that kind of envy does exist nontheless.



blackicmenace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,465
Location: Sagittarius A

02 Jan 2017, 11:22 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Ie those fortunate enough to be born at a time when recognition of autism was greater, and access to a diagnosis easier, being somewhat dismissive/critical of those of us from an earlier era who have struggled for professional recognition of our problems.


"Elitism" is not the word I would use to describe what I observe. There are types of "elitism" on WP-like some officially dxd folks are snooty toward the self diagnosed (usually folks within the same younger generation).



But SOME...some...of the younger (and early in life diagnosed) members do express envy for the older late in life diagnosed folks. So there is "late diagnosis envy" among some. Why anyone would have that kind of envy is beyond me, because it doesnt make any sense. The early diagnosed had all of the advantages, and have no downside. But that kind of envy does exist nontheless.


I would choose understanding over ignorance every single time.


_________________
“Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

03 Jan 2017, 5:59 am

naturalplastic wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Ie those fortunate enough to be born at a time when recognition of autism was greater, and access to a diagnosis easier, being somewhat dismissive/critical of those of us from an earlier era who have struggled for professional recognition of our problems.


"Elitism" is not the word I would use to describe what I observe. There are types of "elitism" on WP-like some officially dxd folks are snooty toward the self diagnosed (usually folks within the same younger generation).



But SOME...some...of the younger (and early in life diagnosed) members do express envy for the older late in life diagnosed folks. So there is "late diagnosis envy" among some. Why anyone would have that kind of envy is beyond me, because it doesnt make any sense. The early diagnosed had all of the advantages, and have no downside. But that kind of envy does exist nontheless.


Perhaps it's envy of a person's accomplishments and position in life, they feel they will never be able to achieve themselves.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,694
Location: Calne,England

03 Jan 2017, 8:36 am

EzraS wrote:

Perhaps it's envy of a person's accomplishments and position in life, they feel they will never be able to achieve themselves.


I struggle to see how anyone could be envious of my accomplishments(Next to zero) and position in life(Never worked,on disability benefits since leaving school).
Many here have accomplished far more than I have.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

03 Jan 2017, 8:53 am

firemonkey wrote:
EzraS wrote:

Perhaps it's envy of a person's accomplishments and position in life, they feel they will never be able to achieve themselves.


I struggle to see how anyone could be envious of my accomplishments(Next to zero) and position in life(Never worked,on disability benefits since leaving school).
Many here have accomplished far more than I have.


I'm talking about late diagnosed adults who describe what appears, on the surface at least, to be an idyllic lifestyle. Spouse, kids, career, nice house, nice car, friends etc. Now I understand people can have all that and life can still be a living hell for them. But sometimes it's difficult to see past the glamour so to speak.



Amity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,714
Location: Meandering

03 Jan 2017, 9:10 am

The typical checklist accomplishments I have had in life are largely due to a type of motivation that would only be deemed abusive today, the outcome is not something to envy, and many of the accomplishments were transient.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

03 Jan 2017, 9:39 am

EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
...But SOME...some...of the younger (and early in life diagnosed) members do express envy for the older late in life diagnosed folks. So there is "late diagnosis envy" among some. Why anyone would have that kind of envy is beyond me, because it doesnt make any sense. The early diagnosed had all of the advantages, and have no downside. But that kind of envy does exist nontheless.


Perhaps it's envy of a person's accomplishments and position in life, they feel they will never be able to achieve themselves.


EzraS wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I struggle to see how anyone could be envious of my accomplishments(Next to zero) and position in life(Never worked,on disability benefits since leaving school).
Many here have accomplished far more than I have.


I'm talking about late diagnosed adults who describe what appears, on the surface at least, to be an idyllic lifestyle. Spouse, kids, career, nice house, nice car, friends etc. Now I understand people can have all that and life can still be a living hell for them. But sometimes it's difficult to see past the glamour so to speak.


Who is this mystical person who is doing so well and is so unhappy? I think you are concerning yourself too much with this idealization. Life isn't cookies and rainbows for anyone, no matter what it looks like.

Don't compare yourself to a fantasy, you will always come up lacking.



This_Amoeba
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 575
Location: Plum Island, NY

03 Jan 2017, 10:43 am

There are some younger people who went undiagnosed until adulthood too due to their parents ignorance and shame.

Some peoples parents didn't believe in "sticking labels" on their child, even after teachers or physicians expressed concern. They believed the child would grow out of it, and that they just need a "boot in the a**." They have the "not my child" attitude and the "those doctors and/or teachers don't know anything" attitude.

Instead the kid gets constantly criticized and accused of not trying hard enough, not socializing, ect. They are put in self contained classes for a vague learning disability, and once mainstreamed get bullied relentlessly. It's even worse if they have a bad home life and an abusive parent who constantly insulted their childs intelligence and treated them like a crazy person who's the failure of the family.

It doesn't help that a lot of people are still ignorant of what exactly aspergers or autism is.

Some of the things I've heard people say about autism/aspergers is stuff like "they are just brats who need a good beating," and "aspergers is the a-hole disorder." These are things my parents have said too.