Please help I need advice
Oh, that does sound horrible. I understand you wanting to live peacefully. If it helps to understand what may be Aspie traits and what things are just your husband's own choices, I don't personally think this is all attributable to Aspie traits. The things that strike me as more likely to be related to an ASD are that he may have problems understanding social situations, feel isolated, may not believe that monogamy is logical, may not be able to empathise with your suffering and may find it difficult to alter what he has found to be workable social practices. Your original question about lying is an interesting one: I've heard people say that having autism means you can't lie. I want blunt truth, but I lie all the time: I think it's the only way not to upset people and therefore to function in public. The line between lying and being polite is invisible to me. If your husband thinks like I do, he may be a very good liar.
None of this should, however, mean he can't acknowledge that you and your children are being made to suffer because of his behaviour. It is also not impossible to alter one's own behaviours (although it is quite hard, as it's unsystematic). Perhaps he doesn't understand that losing you and your children is a reality, and that his behaviour may cause you to leave him. I don't know if it would, either, obviously! He may just want to flirt with women, no matter how it makes you feel. I think that's mean, and I don't know if I could enjoy life with someone who was mean to me.
I wish I knew how to be more helpful. I hope you find a way to be happy.
None of this should, however, mean he can't acknowledge that you and your children are being made to suffer because of his behaviour. It is also not impossible to alter one's own behaviours (although it is quite hard, as it's unsystematic). Perhaps he doesn't understand that losing you and your children is a reality, and that his behaviour may cause you to leave him. I don't know if it would, either, obviously! He may just want to flirt with women, no matter how it makes you feel. I think that's mean, and I don't know if I could enjoy life with someone who was mean to me.
I wish I knew how to be more helpful. I hope you find a way to be happy.
I think you have been very helpful, thank you for being honest with me. My husband is a very good liar and does this also to function in public and not to upset people. I am trying to get to the bottom why he behaves this way with women, however I do believe he can't understand the social cues, but what I don't understand, if he knows it upsets me and the children why hasn't he stopped. Some of my friends say it is about taking back control of our relationship.
Yes, the fact you say he lies alot does sound worrying! That isnt a common thing for many aspies, yes we can tell white lies that are not manipulative in nature nor have negative intent. It can actually be quit painful for many of us to lie. We have enough going on upstairs to have to deal with remembering what lies we have said also...
Have you tried some form of counseling with someone that has experience with the spectrum? Sometimes it might hit home a little more coming from a neutral third party.
Yes we had AS counselling, he never spoke much at the sessions and he lied to the counsellor about the women. She said he has got used to me speaking for him. However she did mention he should take responsibility for his actions otherwise he would get 'jumped by a woman' . Couldn't continue with the counselling although we attended he never really took part. As for the lies yes he can't remember what he has lied about that's how I know he tells lies. Too many different versions.
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
Well, there's a whole lotta factors, at play, here----here's a couple of things, I thought-of.....
It seems like he is "feeding" off of these women's attention, to him----either, it's just merely his ego, that's being fed, or something else. For instance, one of the FIRST things, that caught my eye, was that you said when you all had financial problems, then the thing with women, started again----so, I'm thinking that, maybe, when you all had the financial problems, it made him feel, about himself, that he was a loser, and he does this with women because it "gives" him, self-esteem (as opposed to an ADULT who creates / builds their OWN self-esteem).
Another thing that caught my eye, was your saying that he was very close to his mother and grandmother----and, that the girls in his school thought he was weird, and wouldn't give him the time-of-day----and, I'm thinking that, maybe, he has always been searching for what he got, from his mother and grandmother; and, also, that you try to mother him, but you've got the kids (and are persistently ill, now), and I'm thinking he's not liking taking a backseat, to those things.
Unfortunately, it's sounding alot like you've got, maybe, a spoiled-rotten brat, on your hands. It's seeming like his mother and grandmother spoiled him, and then you continued to enable his bad behavior, by continuing to spoil him----NOT knowing that you were (and that you were just taking care of your man, like, maybe, you were raised to do [as *I* was, so can totally understand it, if that's what happened])----and, now that you have the children and your illness, you're wanting him to grow-up; and, unfortunately, the situation may be too far gone, and he's unwilling to do that, now (that's why I'm thinking it's like you said, that he never learns----it's because he doesn't WANT to learn----and, that he's probably thinking "Why SHOULD I learn, when what I'm doing, brings me great rewards?").
As for whether Aspies can lie and have affairs: although, it doesn't seem to be, like, in an Aspie's "DNA" to be a liar, Aspies CAN, IMO, concurrently, be a narcissist----and then, they are very SKILLED liars, as that is in a narcissist's "DNA", so-to-speak (it's their whole MO, basically).
A couple of other things I thought-of, is: At first I thought that, knowing an Aspie, he'd probably, practically, give birth to kittens (be scared-to-death), if any of these women actually took him up, on his flirtations----but, then you said, they actually DO; and, I'm concerned that he will one day, FIND the nerve to actually BE with one of them (if you believe him, that he hasn't, already).
The other thing that really concerned me, was that you said that HE said that he would leave you, if you did the same things, HE does. This is concerning because I wondered if he is being manipulative (as in, he's flirting with these women because he knows it bothers you, and he's, in effect, saying: "See, if you don't act right, any one of THEM, will have me").
Anyway, I SOOOO feel for you----especially if he is, in fact, playin' ya (manipulating you, like what I said, in the last paragraph)----and, I'm so terribly sorry for your chronic illness, and that it doesn't look like you're ever gonna have, with him, someone who will take an equal share of life's burdens.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
No not true at all!! ! and has been a common misconception amongst factually incorrect websites/blogs. The experiences are entirely different. It is the perception from a visual point of view that some may ''perceive'' that, but internally speaking they are very much the opposite...
Even this is somewhat a poor representation as it is now scientifically proven those on the spectrum actual experience empathy at a much higher level to NT's...
If you wish to know more about narcissism, check the youtube link below. He is the worlds leading narcissist..
ASPD explained
Aspies are actually targeted by the ASPD spectrum because of our naivety to trusting people too much, not understanding negative intent and so on... This has impacted my life greatly as i have been the target of these individuals and when the penny does drop and you call them out they will go on a destructive gaslighting spree turning a hell into something one cannot even describe... Please never get the two mixed up, we are actually polar opposites by general nature! Often loyal, over caring, humanitarian... We often have a hard time in the world because of the lies, manipulation etc. It is an area that isn't generally natural to us at all.
When i was typing my first response to you, there were a few flags that didnt add up for me and my gut was in part thinking if he was a narc that had been misdiagnosed as an aspie, then two others mentioned it... I dont wish to challenge his diagnosis for a number of reasons. But for the sake of any misunderstandings, please dont think that those on the spectrum are connected in any way to the opposite spectrum of which you have mentioned. However autism is a ''spectrum''.. We are no better no worse than anyone else, just different and just like NT's there could be some on the ASPD spectrum also, but often this may not be genetic but brought on by environmental factors when growing up.
I do not mean to offend anyone, I am so really really confused. I do agree that AS and narcissistic behaviour are very different, I guess for me trying to work out what is going on with my husband is very much too confusing. At the end of the day, I am not worried if he is either, I just want to be treated with respect. I can put up with a lot of things but having other women in our relationship is a deal breaker. If he has AS and it is all to do with communication misunderstandings, I can but only sympathise with him. Thank you all for your help and support.
No offense Just rather common misconception. Hard to put in ones shoes if you dont experience it... Just as another perspective... How you feel with that confusion about not understanding those on the spectrum is the same for us in reverse. Just we have to experience it every single day as well as everything else we often deal with being on the spectrum...
But as mentioned you need to set boundaries as he has with what he said to you and point that out as well...
and tell him literally how it makes you feel and how it effects the children. I know you have mentioned it but not too sure in what context...
But boundaries need to be put in place..
I dont know.. Maybe ask him to come here and ask for everyone's opinion so that it sinks in?
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
Yes, I understand the confusion----and, that there APPEARS to be overlaps; but, IMO, there are NOT. IMO, narcissistic behavior is learned, whereas autistic behavior is neurological; and, an autistic person wants NOT to display autistic behavior, whereas a narcissist has chosen their behavior (and, quite frankly, I'm thinking the chances of getting a narc to UN-learn the behavior, is next-to-nil; whereas an ASDer will almost always do backflips to NOT have whatever behavior they feel, is unsavory).
Okay, so one of the things that some "experts" point to as an overlap, is lack-of-empathy----the difference, IMO, is that an autistic person DOES have empathy, but is so overwhelmed by their feeling so badly about what another person is experiencing, that they don't know what to do, so they do nothing (which gives the APPEARANCE that they don't care / lack empathy). A narc will often come right out and SAY: "I don't care", or "So...?", or something similar. Oftentimes an Autistic will get super quiet, withdraw----maybe even have a meltdown / shutdown----maybe even appear to have a tantrum, because they don't WANT to go to a funeral, for instance; but, they won't be able to say "why". A narc may ALSO have a tantrum when they don't want to go to a funeral, but their verbalized reason will be that they don't want to be around a bunch of people "slobberin'" all over each other / themselves (crying / complaining). See the difference? The autistic person hurts for the OTHER person; the narc "hurts", for THEMSELVES.
Another way in which some "experts" (people in the mental health field - I put it in quotes cuz I feel some of these people, too often, don't know what they're talking about, cuz my philosophy is "Life ain't IN a book") compare narcs to ASDers, is that they are both self-centered----but, again, I feel it has been misinterpreted. I feel that an ASDer APPEARS to be self-centered, cuz they, sort-of, don't know how to get OUT of themselves, if you know what I mean (they don't have the social skills to interact with others). The narc, OTOH, does everything he knows to do to get out of himself / ESCAPE himself (cuz he doesn't like himself)----to the point, that he relies on everybody ELSE to "give" him, himself (self-esteem, confidence, etc.). The ASDer, often, doesn't like himself, as well----but, that's usually NOT "overall" (ie, almost every ASDer on here, can say at least ONE thing they like about themselves). A narc, OTOH, dismisses his entire self, altogether.
One can often hear an ASDer say, something like: "I try----I really do"; but, one will almost NEVER hear a narc admit a shortcoming.
There can APPEAR to be a fine line between ASDers and narcs----but, IMO, there IS a line; one just has to scrutinize, sometimes, to find it (sometimes, one DOESN'T have to scrutinize, because the narc's behavior, for instance, can be extremely BLATANT). The problem, often, is that one can miss the behavior of a narc, because they can't see the forest, for the trees----meaning that, in this case, we're already so involved with the person / situation, that we can't think / see outside the situation; but, when we step back (doesn't have to be a physical step, back), and think of them / the situation, with a new "definition", so-to-speak, we see them in a NEW way.
Also, don't forget..... I feel it is quite possible for an autistic person, to ALSO be a narc, because narcissism is learned behaviors----it would be no different, IMO, than ANYONE (ASDer or NT) who ALSO picks their nose, buttons their shirt from the bottom, and puts mayonnaise on their hot dog, cuz that's what they had been taught or decided, to do; an ASDer doesn't choose / decide their behavior(s).
Here's a couple of links, for ya (might have gotten these from someone who posted them, a while, back):
http://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd
That link (above) also has a really good forum----but, I would suggest going-through their glossary, FIRST, or else their "shorthand" will give you a headache, trying to figure-out what they're saying (it did ME, anyway):
http://outofthefog.website/glossary/
I really like the link, below, because it's someone who has LIVED with a narc----and, as I have often said, on here, I feel that experience can often teach us MORE (even if we're learning from someone else's experience), than what we can learn from someone who has merely / ONLY read a BOOK, like the aforementioned mental health "experts":
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Abusive%20tactics%20of%20narcissists
Note: Narcissism has been a special interest of mine, for a couple of years, now (because I found-out that I had grown-up with THREE of them)----BUT, I'm not, in any capacity, affiliated with the mental health profession.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Campin_Cat
Veteran
Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
You're quite WELCOME!! I continue to keep you, in my thoughts and prayers.
Please DO stop back by, and let us know how you're doing......
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
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