Schizoid vs Asperger's

Post Reply New Topic

Since people are now mentioning other disorders, I now regret deleting my post.

I was diagnosed with AS, OCD, and anxiety. I read in my second medical report by my psychiatrist "I know I said I think she has autistic spectrum disorder, mild but I think she will also meet the criteria for OCD and anxiety disorder."
It was as if he couldn't decide what I had so all three labels I was given and they do all look the same from my experience. I am also diagnosed with ADD. I was very difficult to diagnose BTW. Maybe because I am female and because of my medical history so it made it tough. I was only given other labels like auditory processing disorder, dyspraxia, language processing disorder.

Yeah that John Nash movie was totally fictional because I looked up the real John Nash and his biography didn't match the movie. So disappointed with Hollywood. He and his wife actually divorced and remarried and their son became a paranoid schizophrenic and I don't remember what else. But I could never look at the movie the same way again and never wanted to watch it again because it felt like a lie. So it makes me skeptical about other movies that are about real life and real people including the Temple Grandin one. I wasn't sure if it was the truth or did Hollywood mess with it too.

According to how he was represented in the movie, John Nash had systematized delusions, indicated a psychosis, though not schizophrenia. He also has some "classic" signs of Aspergers Syndrome. I regard this person as a character in a movie.

I don't know much about the actual John Nash. He won a Noble Prize in Economics. I never met the guy.

I read he recovered from paranoid schizophrenia but the movie still showed his delusions and he would ignored his "room mate and his niece" and they never aged and he learned by then to ignore his delusions and what was real and what wasn't. The beginning of the movie did a good job because we think everything we see is actually happening but it was actually in his head and he was the one who pushed a desk out his window in his dorm, not the room mate. Also who he was working for didn't actually exist. Are you actually saying he didn't have these delusions?

When a person is "paranoid schizophrenic," their delusions frequently are not "systematized" like John Nash's were in the movie. There's a "thought disorder" present. Nash didn't exhibit a "thought disorder"; his thoughts were not disorganized. They were organized, but delusional.

Nowadays, they most frequently diagnose somebody with systematized delusions with "delusional disorder."

So he would no longer fit schizophrenia you are saying but he is still on the schizophrenia spectrum?

I wonder why we have the schizophrenic spectrum with all these labels and you can be on it and not be a schizophrenic but with the autism spectrum, it not like that, I wonder why that is? Why is everyone autistic but one can't be on it and still not be autistic? Just think of all the different labels with components of autism and people can have either of those and still be on the spectrum like it is with the schizophrenia spectrum.

It's really the difference, in my opinion, between somebody having a "thought disorder," and hence disorganized thoughts---as manifested in somebody speaking in "word salads"---with phrases seeming to be unconnected to each other.

And somebody who has organized thoughts, is able to express his/herself well, is organized in other facets (e.g., clothing)---yet has delusions which most people would find to be absurd, and without basis in reality.

Schizoid:
A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
(1) neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
- I wonder
(2) almost always chooses solitary activities
- Nope
(3) has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
- Nope
(4) takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
- Nope
(5) lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
- I wonder
(6) appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
- Nope
(7) shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity
- I don't think so
B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, another Psychotic Disorder, or a Pervasive Developmental Disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.
- I wonder

Asperger(ICD-10):
A. A lack of any clinically significant general delay in spoken or receptive language or cognitive development. Diagnosis requires that single words should have developed by two years of age or earlier and that communicative phrases be used by three years of age or earlier. Self-help skills, adaptive behaviour and curiosity about the environment during the first three years should be at a level consistent with intellectual development. However, motor milestones may be somewhat delayed and motor clumsiness is usual (although not a necessary diagnostic feature). Isolated special skills, often related to abnormal preoccupations, are common, but are not required for diagnosis.
- Yup
B.Qualitative abnormalities in reciprocal social interaction (criteria as for autism).
- Yup
C.An unusually intense circumscribed interest or restrictive, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests and activities (criteria as for autism; however, it would be less usual for these to include either motor mannerisms or preoccupations with part-objects or non-functional elements of play materials).
- Yup
D.The disorder is not attributable to other varieties of pervasive developmental disorder; schizotypal disorder (F21); simple schizophrenia (F20.6); reactive and disinhibited attachment disorder of childhood (F94.1 and .2); obsessional personality disorder (F60.5); obsessive-compulsive disorder (F42).
- I wonder

ASD(DSM5):
A.Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
(1)Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
- Yup
(2) Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
- Yup
(3) Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understand relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.
- Yup
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
(1)Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypes, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
- Yup
(2)Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat same food every day).
- Not severe
(3)Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).
- Yup
(4)Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g. apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).
- Yup
C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).
- Yup
D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.
- Yup
E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.
- Yup

Based on diagnostic criteria I am an Aspie/Autie but I am not schizoid. However I am "active but odd" subtype so it might be more difficult to distinguish when someone is "aloof" or "passive".

It's always hard to determine how/what Hollywood wants to display on the big screen with regards to mental disorders. Sometimes they're accurate but much of the time Hollywood uses far too much "artistic license" when making movies.

In John Nash's case, he maintained throughout his life right up until the day he died that he never actually "saw" the 3 individuals displayed in the movie. This would seem to suggest a strike against the schizoid diagnosis. But, the part in the movie where he pushed a desk out of his window, whether it happened or not, other people saw it happen so maybe this is a strike FOR schizoidism. BUT perhaps Nash was simply angry at a past experience and took his anger out on the desk. Who knows really.

This is where Hollywood muddys the water with how the audience perceives the movie and whats actually going on inside Nash's head.

We can read all the tech manuals on Asperger's and Schizoids we want but in the end there is one undeniable truth:

Back in the 30s-50s when Nash's problems were the most active, Schizophrenia was OFTEN used as a "wastebasket" in psychology circles to explain inexplicable behaviours and mannerisms. Based on that, I believe that MOST of his behaviours were more indicative of Asperger's than Schizoidism.

Systematic delusionals are more indicative of Schizoid than Aspie BUT an active and vivid imagination is more indicative of Aspie than Schizoid. So, will we ever know what Nash saw and what he simply imagined according to a silly Hollywood movie?

Probably never.

_________________
*** High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome ***

ADHD, OCD, and PTSD.

Keep calm and stim away.

I was diagnosed in 2005 with HFA and went along with that until I encountered the public mental health system again in 2013 when I was hospitalised again with what I thought was depression. They named it Borderline Personality Disorder and discharged me. Then they called me back as an outpatient and tested me using the SCID (a type of psych test). My local mental health unit eventually got back to me and in a meeting told me I didn't have BPD, I had Schizoid Personality Disorder instead. I asked what was to be done and they said nothing because Schizoids are really hard to treat and it takes too long.

Since then I only see my psychiatrist once every six months. No psychologist for me.

i have shizoafektive depressive type, but i am also sure i have asd

I think this is an interesting question and this draws attention to how subjective all of this is. One could easily be diagnosed with 5 different things by 5 different psychologists. Apart from not getting pleasure from any activities, I definitely fit the schizoid traits. Earlier in the thread someone suggested that the age that the traits appeared was an important distinction between the two since earlier appearance suggests a genetic component, but then how does childhood abuse play into that? How do you know whether the traits are from that or if they really are genetic? And then does it really matter which it is if, at the end of the day, you're dealing with the same thing?

I don't know. I liked the suggestion that sensory issues might be the distinction, but then why can you be diagnosed with ASD without having them? The more that I read, the more I think that these may be two sides of the same coin. ASD certainly seems to have more diagnostic criteria, but I can see how schizoid could have its place on the spectrum as well. I would be curious to learn how often those diagnosed with schizoid PD also had traits of ASD. It just all seems so subjective.

@EverythingandNothing if you were referring to my comment, please understand that everything I write should be read with a grain of salt because I frequently adjust my views based on new information. However, I should clarify, when I said toxic environment, I was not referring to childhood abuse alone but rather anything that could be toxic to the development of ones personality. For example, someone who has abandonment issues as a teen may have been frequently left alone, or may have lived in many foster homes and felt that no one wanted them and so forth, then later in life as a result of developing this way, they may end up with borderline personality disorder. PLEASE NOTE that this is an example and in no way do I mean that everyone raised that way will end up with bpd or that everyone with bpd was that way. I am just saying that components from childhood lead up to personality disorders.

I think I will add a disclaimer to my signature