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Asperger's and "extreme male brain"

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Wolfram87
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18 Feb 2018, 2:27 pm

If I remember correctly, even Baron-Cohen himself has abandoned this line of inquiry, but I think it lay the groundwork for his "Solitary Forager Hypothesis", which seems a good bit more interesting.


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18 Feb 2018, 2:59 pm

It is about systemizing thinking not about being a he man drinking beers and playing or watching sports.


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19 Feb 2018, 3:52 am

I fully agree.



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19 Feb 2018, 11:32 am

strings wrote:
mind_my_palace wrote:
Find the idea extremely unscientific and mildly disturbing. Grey matter has no gender. Social constructs of gender typically involve no grey matter. Asperger's is having a brain with extremes. Irrespective of reproductive anatomy.


I think Simon Baron-Cohen's hypothesis is considerably more nuanced than you are implying. For example, it proposes a correlation between fetal testosterone levels during pregnancy and a tendency towards autism in the child. It is not an "A implies and is implied by B" kind of hypothesis; rather, it is a proposal that there could exist correlations of non-trivial statistical significance. Testing the hypothesis would require accumulating a lot of data, which has not yet been done. It cannot be proved overnight. Likewise, it cannot be disproved just with a quick "this doesn't sound very scientific" remark from someone who maybe hasn't read the relevant research papers.


Okay, I'm open to that. I suppose the "male-brain/female-brain" terminology has lately acquired a rather sorry set of connotations, that might whitewash, or detract from the actual science behind the topic. I will say that the wording does NOT suggest scientific relevance. Changing times, I suppose.



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19 Feb 2018, 1:36 pm

I don't think this is true. I think that the traits are nearly the same between females and males, but due to contexts and opportunities they just appear different. But hey, believe what you want to believe.



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19 Feb 2018, 3:28 pm

ElleGaunt wrote:
I don't think this is true. I think that the traits are nearly the same between females and males, but due to contexts and opportunities they just appear different. But hey, believe what you want to believe.


Not sure about this. I doubt the traits are the same. I just don't think they are supposed to be labeled male/female.



RetroGamer87
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19 Feb 2018, 8:36 pm

Do aspie girls also have an extreme male brain?


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Wolfram87
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20 Feb 2018, 2:39 am

ElleGaunt wrote:
I don't think this is true. I think that the traits are nearly the same between females and males, but due to contexts and opportunities they just appear different. But hey, believe what you want to believe.


The phrase "demonstrably counterfactual" comes to mind.


RetroGamer87 wrote:
Do aspie girls also have an extreme male brain?


Bit of a moot point now since the hypothesis has largely been abandoned, but I think part of the idea was that girls with the EMB has that tempered by the fact that they're female, while males with the EMB are more frequently so far out on the fringe as to become dysfunctional.


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20 Feb 2018, 6:35 pm

mind_my_palace wrote:
Find the idea extremely unscientific and mildly disturbing. Grey matter has no gender. Social constructs of gender typically involve no grey matter. Asperger's is having a brain with extremes. Irrespective of reproductive anatomy.


Gender isn't a "social construct" though. It's biologically determined. You are either male or female, and that's that!

As for the belief that we have "male brains", it's probably true to at least some extent, because the attributes that most NT males have (ex. being more "thing"-oriented than focused on people, not engaging in gossip) we have to an even greater degree.



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20 Feb 2018, 6:39 pm

By the way, why do many here believe that this idea has "been largely abandoned" (Wolfram 87)? I still occasionally come across it, and it has a certain degree of validity. As for whether or not females with autism/AS are similarly affected, is at this time unknown. Even if they are not, the idea still works when it comes to Aspie males.



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20 Feb 2018, 10:56 pm

I’m autistic and only interested in stuff that’s male dominated. Mma, death metal, horror movies (perfect movie is The Thing not a girl cast member in the movie). I have an extremely low digit ratio. I used to think my autism and Neanderthal brain caused me to have such a low digit ratio.



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21 Feb 2018, 3:33 am

Lintar wrote:
By the way, why do many here believe that this idea has "been largely abandoned" (Wolfram 87)? I still occasionally come across it, and it has a certain degree of validity. As for whether or not females with autism/AS are similarly affected, is at this time unknown. Even if they are not, the idea still works when it comes to Aspie males.


I refer back to my previous post in this thread.

Wolfram87 wrote:
If I remember correctly, even Baron-Cohen himself has abandoned this line of inquiry, but I think it lay the groundwork for his "Solitary Forager Hypothesis", which seems a good bit more interesting.


I could of course be incorrect.


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Lintar
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23 Feb 2018, 8:56 pm

c0r wrote:
I’m autistic and only interested in stuff that’s male dominated. Mma, death metal, horror movies (perfect movie is The Thing not a girl cast member in the movie). I have an extremely low digit ratio. I used to think my autism and Neanderthal brain caused me to have such a low digit ratio.


That would have to be the original "The Thing", and not the remake (which stars Mary Elizabeth Winstead) that is set just before the events that take place in the original. "The Great Escape" has no female characters either. "Dark Star" (John Carpenter) is another. "Das Boot".

What do you mean by low digit ratio?



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24 Feb 2018, 5:33 pm

Lintar wrote:
c0r wrote:
I’m autistic and only interested in stuff that’s male dominated. Mma, death metal, horror movies (perfect movie is The Thing not a girl cast member in the movie). I have an extremely low digit ratio. I used to think my autism and Neanderthal brain caused me to have such a low digit ratio.


That would have to be the original "The Thing", and not the remake (which stars Mary Elizabeth Winstead) that is set just before the events that take place in the original. "The Great Escape" has no female characters either. "Dark Star" (John Carpenter) is another. "Das Boot".

What do you mean by low digit ratio?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

Look at your fingers. If your pointer finger is shorter than your ring finger you have a low digit ratio and you were exposed to more testerone in your moms stomach.

I think Dark Star is some kind of joke movie but yeah carpenter does choose male characters as heros like in they live, escape from la etc etc.

I swore to never watch another German movie when I was done with school even though my focus in college for my history degree was nazi history and german. The movies they forced us to watch in German class were so lame. I will probably see Das Boot after watching Stalingrad.

The Thing remake/prequel thing was awful. Why didn't the alien have to transform he could have just killed the other characters without changing.

The game on ps2 was awesome.

As for war movies, it's like blasphemy for someone that loves military history. I remember watching full metal jacket and the beginning during boot camp was the only cool and apparently accurate part of the movie. The rest of the movie was so bad and innacurate it was a comedy.

Lol I didn't even realize the first time I wrote this that the beginning of full metal jacket was all men too.



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24 Feb 2018, 8:17 pm

c0r wrote:
The Thing remake/prequel thing was awful. Why didn't the alien have to transform he could have just killed the other characters without changing.


The creature in the remake didn't do what you suggest here because it's primary focus was on survival, and the only way it could accomplish this was to make it to the outside world, away from the cold, and the best way to do this was to disguise itself.
I actually liked the "remake". When I first saw "Dark Star" I had no idea it was a comedy. I took it completely seriously, although at the time I would have been about five years old and unable to appreciate (or even recognise) the humour.



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24 Feb 2018, 10:39 pm

Lintar wrote:
c0r wrote:
The Thing remake/prequel thing was awful. Why didn't the alien have to transform he could have just killed the other characters without changing.


The creature in the remake didn't do what you suggest here because it's primary focus was on survival, and the only way it could accomplish this was to make it to the outside world, away from the cold, and the best way to do this was to disguise itself.
I actually liked the "remake". When I first saw "Dark Star" I had no idea it was a comedy. I took it completely seriously, although at the time I would have been about five years old and unable to appreciate (or even recognise) the humour.


I saw they live and the thing in middle school, I thought the main character in they live was just delusional. Carpenter movies make you think, which I like about horror movies it's not just stupid slash movies. Plus he makes horror movies to scare atheists. As for the 2011 the thing the movie sucked imo so it isnt even worth discussing.