Why did all guests laugh at me when my parents yelled at me?

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naturalplastic
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23 Jun 2018, 10:43 am

Aspie1 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
They may have been laughing out of nervousness in a socially tense situation (the situation that erupted between you and your parents).
It wasn't a nervous, tittering laughter. It was an uproarious belly laughter. Like a marijuana smoker in a comedy club.


Ya got me.

I don't know why.



Dear_one
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23 Jun 2018, 11:47 am

Sorry - I missed that detail. Laughter is basically an involuntary reaction, needed to defuse situations where a mistaken perception is raising anxiety. It means "This alarming situation is not dangerous (to me, now.) The guests may have laughed to reassure themselves that they were not under attack with you. Non-conforming behaviour is often "funny" and among NTs, it is a signal of danger to group solidarity. The butt of the joke learns to not repeat it. Lacking EQ, Aspies don't know what to change, or how, so the lesson is repeated uselessly. Unfortunately, even people who don't respond conventionally due to language or cultural differences are seen as sub-human by the people who think of humans as competitive individuals rather than a social species with much in common.



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23 Jun 2018, 11:59 am

Dear_one wrote:
Sorry - I missed that detail. Laughter is basically an involuntary reaction, needed to defuse situations where a mistaken perception is raising anxiety. It means "This alarming situation is not dangerous (to me, now.) The guests may have laughed to reassure themselves that they were not under attack with you. Non-conforming behaviour is often "funny" and among NTs, it is a signal of danger to group solidarity. The butt of the joke learns to not repeat it. Lacking EQ, Aspies don't know what to change, or how, so the lesson is repeated uselessly. Unfortunately, even people who don't respond conventionally due to language or cultural differences are seen as sub-human by the people who think of humans as competitive individuals rather than a social species with much in common.
What you just said is basically the same as what I inferred as a kid. The guests were reassuring themselves that they were the in-group (adults who are always free and can drink alcohol) and I was the out-group (a child who always gets yelled at). So even with the niceness, they viewed me the same way as a Fortune 500 CEO views a homeless man.

As for learning what to change, it was impossible. My parents kept moving the goalposts: they yelled at me about different things each time. One time, it was about not sitting up straight enough; another time, it was about getting my hands messy (while eating fried chicken, mind you); all without mentioning the previous transgression. And it wasn't just a stern reminder; it was all-out anger-filled yelling, sometimes accompanied by slamming a hand on the table.



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23 Jun 2018, 12:31 pm

Some parents regard children as extensions of themselves, and are very distressed by any sign of independence. A little bit of this trait is useful, but your parents hit toxic levels.
People who keep dogs illustrate the problem. Potty training is necessary, but then the same approach is generally used for everything the dog does, sometimes with expensive obedience classes. The relationship is full of conflict and misery. A few wise people recognize the dog's intelligence and needs, and enjoy a great partnership.



naturalplastic
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23 Jun 2018, 1:37 pm

I dunno.
I am testing different hypothesis and trying to avoid leaping to the conclusion that they were all justbeing assbleeps.

At my job we form crews to count inventory a various different work sites (different retail stores).

One time a guy and a girl got into a nasty running fight. Unrelated to that the guy and I agreed to have me drive him part way home from the big grocery store we had just finished counting.

Me and the guy were walking away together towards the door. Then the girl called out in our direction, and....their fight resumed. Except I didn't know I was in the middle of someone else's fight.

I saw her looking in my direction and saw that she looked angry and heard her saying angry stuff in my direction.

Then suddenly I realized that she wasn't talking to me. She was talking to the guy standing next to me (the guy bumming a ride from me). Then I started to laugh uncontrollably. The girl got flustered and wonder why I was laughing. Didn't really know myself why I was laughing at that moment. But soon later realized that it was mainly release of tension: for a moment I thought I had done sumpin wrong, and had made someone angry at ME, and then realized that the anger was about the person standing next to me, and had nothing to do with me...so I was laughing with relief. Also, lets face it, angry people are funny to watch. Both of them were looking rather silly. So there was also that seasoning on the steak. Lol!

So maybe the grownups would hear your parents erupt in loud voices and not know what was happening and got anxious that some serious fight was breaking out. And upon realizing that it was just parents yelling at a kid they had the release of tension effect. That combined with maybe laughing at your parents to.

Or maybe not. I dunno.



Aspie1
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24 Jun 2018, 9:47 am

naturalplastic wrote:
So maybe the grownups would hear your parents erupt in loud voices and not know what was happening and got anxious that some serious fight was breaking out. And upon realizing that it was just parents yelling at a kid they had the release of tension effect. That combined with maybe laughing at your parents to.

This seem a little bizarre. The adults in the room were all allies. Yeah, my parents fought with each other a lot, and even then, never in front of guests. As a unit, they were always allies for all the adults in their home, and the guests knew. So what danger would the yelling present to the adult guests? None! So the "release of tension" theory doesn't hold water, because the adults had nothing to fear in the first place.

My theory says that the laughter was meant to separate the strong in-group (adults) from the weak out-group (me). It also explains why my parents rarely yelled at me when there were other kids present. Those kids were my allies, who may have had ways to step in and back me up. My parents knew it, and didn't yell at me in front of them. Or if they really wanted to rip into me over some perceived slight, they always pulled me aside first, to separate me from the other kids.

It's like a wolf pack keeping an omega wolf around while treating him poorly, in order to make the other pack members feel better about themselves, with the omega having no options but to stay. The pack has only one omega, which means he has no allies on his side, either. Like I didn't when only adults came over.



arielhawksquill
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25 Jun 2018, 10:54 am

Here's a theory you didn't try: maybe you had some hilarious looking physical reaction to being yelled at. Did you slam yourself dramatically back in the chair, with folded arms and your lower lip sticking out cartoonishly? Autistics often aren't aware of what they look like. The adults may have laughed because it was "cute", but it didn't seem cute anymore after you got too old to act like a petulant child, so they quit laughing.



Aspie1
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25 Jun 2018, 3:43 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
Here's a theory you didn't try: maybe you had some hilarious looking physical reaction to being yelled at. Did you slam yourself dramatically back in the chair, with folded arms and your lower lip sticking out cartoonishly? Autistics often aren't aware of what they look like. The adults may have laughed because it was "cute", but it didn't seem cute anymore after you got too old to act like a petulant child, so they quit laughing.

8O Wow! This is really astute! Of course, this means the guests were mocking me after all, but it's nice to know the reason for it. With that said, I don't know what exactly I did to look "cute", thus provoking the laughter/mockery. I'm pretty sure I had a very weak or defeated body language while my parents yelled, which triggered the guests' predatory instincts (to kick the weakling while he's down). Because hey, even a friendly golden retriever still has a deep-seated instinct to chase prey. But how was my weakness supposed to be "cute"? I mean, weakness isn't cute, it's just weak. I don't understand. And I don't feel any guilt for having fantasies of lethal violence against all the adults on the scene.

It's sad that the guests stopped laughing because my weakness stopped being "cute" (read: butt of jokes). I thought it was because they became kinder people. Or at least learned to restrain their predatory instincts. I guess I was wrong. :(



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25 Jun 2018, 10:41 pm

Because those guests who laughed at you were Sour Grapes which is the opposite of a Sweet Pea.


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naturalplastic
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28 Jun 2018, 7:26 am

Aspie1 wrote:
arielhawksquill wrote:
Here's a theory you didn't try: maybe you had some hilarious looking physical reaction to being yelled at. Did you slam yourself dramatically back in the chair, with folded arms and your lower lip sticking out cartoonishly? Autistics often aren't aware of what they look like. The adults may have laughed because it was "cute", but it didn't seem cute anymore after you got too old to act like a petulant child, so they quit laughing.

8O Wow! This is really astute! Of course, this means the guests were mocking me after all, but it's nice to know the reason for it. With that said, I don't know what exactly I did to look "cute", thus provoking the laughter/mockery. I'm pretty sure I had a very weak or defeated body language while my parents yelled, which triggered the guests' predatory instincts (to kick the weakling while he's down). Because hey, even a friendly golden retriever still has a deep-seated instinct to chase prey. But how was my weakness supposed to be "cute"? I mean, weakness isn't cute, it's just weak. I don't understand. And I don't feel any guilt for having fantasies of lethal violence against all the adults on the scene.

It's sad that the guests stopped laughing because my weakness stopped being "cute" (read: butt of jokes). I thought it was because they became kinder people. Or at least learned to restrain their predatory instincts. I guess I was wrong. :(


you're missing your own point.

The point is not...that they didn't become "more kind" with time. The point is that, possibly, they weren't really being unkind to begin with. They were laughing because you looked funny and cute. Not out of malice.



Aspie1
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28 Jun 2018, 9:44 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The point is not...that they didn't become "more kind" with time. The point is that, possibly, they weren't really being unkind to begin with. They were laughing because you looked funny and cute. Not out of malice.
First of all, you or anyone else haven't answered my question. How is looking weak and/or defeated "cute" or "funny"? Especially when your own parents are dumping vitriol on you over something trivial! I still say they were laughing because they were glad they're not kids, and therefore no longer get yelled at for sitting the wrong way or not liking onions. And another thing: laughing at a child who's being yelled at is one of the most malicious things an adult can do.

I guess the NT mindset and its logic (or lack thereof) is something I'll never understand. :? :(



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28 Jun 2018, 10:21 am

I'd go with "potentially painful" rather than "malicious." It could have led to a career in comedy.



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28 Jun 2018, 1:05 pm

We had a family stay with us a while back and when their young children hurt themselves they pointed at them and laughed. I was horrified. They did it as a form of behaviour training - don't get sad or take injuries or defeats seriously. I took it as a way to humiliate and invalidate any "real" and subjective feelings their children had at that instance. Literally reinforcing the idea that: "what you feel doesn't matter".

In that same vein the guests laughing at you when your parents yelled at you might be seen to invalidate any feelings you might be feeling at that juncture (hurt, upset, embarrassment) as their laughing reinforces the idea - "this is nothing; your feelings are nothing".

What was the alternative? As an adult at your parent's dinner party; what else could one do? I guess I would have said something like: "I feel really uncomfortable with the way you are talking to your son so I am going to choose to leave now!" This would be beneficial to the point that it stressed (to you) that someone was not on your parents side and someone disapproved and was ready to signal that this behaviour is wrong. But what if your parents just let them leave. What would really have been achieved? Sitting in silence. That is also condoning.

Or someone could be much more aggressive and confront your parents. Often the assumption is though that if you shame people that treat children badly they just take their aggression and humiliation out on the child once they are alone and this is often far worse.

So, in this scenario, what is the best thing to do? I have wondered this for sometime in various scenarios where I feel parents behave badly.

When my daughter was younger a mum lay into her young child in a public swimming pool changing room - my daughter watched in horror and then said rather loud "Now, that was not a very good example of self control, was it mummy?" when I shared this incident with other parents they were horrified. My daughter should not have spoken out. I should have told her off. I should have taken the other mum's side. But the other mum was totally out of line.... But it is one of those rules that is entirely illogical - you are meant to back other adults up. I disagree with it fiercely. Wrong is wrong.


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naturalplastic
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28 Jun 2018, 6:53 pm

Okay. I dunno. Never have witnessed adults behave in such a way. If it really was as you remember it.

I guess that your parents had a bunch of sadistic weirdos for friends.

Are either of your parents alive? Maybe you could ask them yourself.



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28 Jun 2018, 8:06 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
What was the alternative? As an adult at your parent's dinner party; what else could one do? I guess I would have said something like: "I feel really uncomfortable with the way you are talking to your son so I am going to choose to leave now!" This would be beneficial to the point that it stressed (to you) that someone was not on your parents side and someone disapproved and was ready to signal that this behaviour is wrong. But what if your parents just let them leave. What would really have been achieved? Sitting in silence. That is also condoning.
...
So, in this scenario, what is the best thing to do? I have wondered this for sometime in various scenarios where I feel parents behave badly.

I'd have been fine if the guests just sat in silence. To me, silence isn't condoning, but neutrality. Plus, don't forget: the guests were adults, which made them "the enemy" in mind, by the sole virtue of their age. Which means I didn't expect them to take my side. However, the laughter was doubly insulting. They were not only siding against me (which is fine by itself), but also rubbing in my face, with their laughter, how weak and powerless I am. It's like Genghis Khan salting the earth, after killing the men and raping the women.

To answer your question, the best thing to do is to sit in silence. This way, you're not actively siding against the parents, which will make them retaliate against the child later, and you're not actively supporting their behavior.



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30 Jun 2018, 5:18 pm

Because your parents' guests were jerks.


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