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Arganger
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03 Sep 2018, 10:45 am

omid wrote:
let me tell you guys a joke, sure you haven't heard it yet:

There was this guy, sitting in a park, on a bench. He had a bag with lots of bananas. and a salt shaker.
So this guy would take one of the many bananas, peel it, put lots of salt on it, take one bite and go UGH!! ! ! ! and would discard the salted banana in the trashcan, which was, conviniently, installed right beside the bench.

An old man passing by observed this behavior and asked him: "What on earth are you exactly doing?"
and the guy said, "the thing is I do not like salted bananas."
The old man said: "don't put salt on your banana then!"
and the guy was enlightened and knew from that point that if he doesn't like salted bananas, he shouldn't put salt on them.

Why am I telling you this joke? 1. because I'm crazy 2. If the titles and content of those books written by idiots make you triggered or agitated, don't read them (don't salt your banana, right?). Reading stupid comments on autism, in books or on reddit or anywhere, makes you more miserable than you probably already are. And books are written by people, most of which are idiots. Nobody is forcing you to read this BS books and get triggered by them, except yourself.

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omid


The problem is some parents read such books and take them seriously.


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Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


B19
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03 Sep 2018, 10:54 am

I very much doubt that the maligned "refrigerator mothers" generation of mothers read those hateful and false claims made by Bettelheim and his acolytes. Nevertheless, they and their AS children were very negatively impacted by the falsehoods. There is plenty of evidence for this.

Saying "just ignore it" ignores the much bigger picture of impact on a maligned group; and again, contributes to enabling the dehumanisers to peddle their stuff unchallenged.



omid
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03 Sep 2018, 10:58 am

Arganger wrote:

The problem is some parents read such books and take them seriously.


You are very right, and that's sad, and also very poor book choice by the parents. But I've figured out for myself that I can't fix other people or the world. I can only fix myself if I'm really REALLY lucky. So as I can't help the kids who are being brought up buy misguided parents reading stupid books, but I can at least try to maintain my own mental integrity. And I'm suggesting the same to the mostly adult users of this site. to whom the harm by those books has already be done. My point is to limit farther damage by the very same books so to speak.

If there are people here who, as opposed to me, have any means to actually fight and win against these books and ideas, go for it. I personally can't. If you can, you are doing a very wonderful thing.


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warrier120
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03 Sep 2018, 11:12 am

omid wrote:
let me tell you guys a joke, sure you haven't heard it yet:

There was this guy, sitting in a park, on a bench. He had a bag with lots of bananas. and a salt shaker.
So this guy would take one of the many bananas, peel it, put lots of salt on it, take one bite and go UGH!! ! ! ! and would discard the salted banana in the trashcan, which was, conviniently, installed right beside the bench. And he kept doing it again, and again, and again,....

An old man passing by observed this behavior and asked him: "What on earth are you exactly doing?"
and the guy said, "the thing is I do not like salted bananas."
The old man said: "don't put salt on your banana then!"
and the guy was enlightened and knew from that point that if he doesn't like salted bananas, he shouldn't put salt on them.

Why am I telling you this joke? 1. because I'm crazy 2. If the titles and content of those books written by idiots make you triggered or agitated, don't read them (don't salt your banana, right?). Reading stupid comments on autism, in books or on reddit or anywhere, makes you more miserable than you probably already are. And books are written by people, most of which are idiots. Nobody is forcing you to read this BS books and get triggered by them, except yourself.

cheerz
omid

I'm not reading the book to get offended by it, which I'm actually not, but I'm doing it to analyze the authors' views on autistic children (and, to a lesser extent, teens and adults). I didn't know I was autistic until age 10, but my mom said it the wrong way. For a while, I questioned my diagnosis and what it meant to me. Around the age of 12 or 13, I learned about the autistic community as opposed to the autism community. I read up on the views of autistic adults and soon adopted them. I'm treating reading Overcoming Autism like an English project, minus the annotations because that would mess everything up. So, no, I'm not exactly going to stop reading this.


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Sep 2018, 12:20 pm

Olivia_H wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Olivia_H wrote:
A neurotypical parent learning of their childs developmental disorder is hardly going to be an enjoyable or pleasant experience, especially when parents like to build up an image of how their childs life is going to pan out. To have this future image drastically changed or destroyed in a doctors office is going to feel like a natural disaster. Naturally, this can lead to feelings of hopelessness for the parent. Perhaps later on, the book will talk about how it's not all doom and gloom and after the initial shock you can relearn to interpret the diagnosis as merely an alteration to an austistic childs planned or desired future.

As for talking about how autism isn't normal, I have to agree. What is normal first of all? Normal is what people NORMALLY and most frequently experience and autism is still an infrequent occurrence amongst the general population. I don't know why people get offended when they're perceived as abnormal or unusual when they actually are infact abnormal or unusual. If someone were to call me unusual or not normal, I'd just nod and tell them that they're right and that my lack of normality isn't necessarily a bad thing. Non-autistics are called neurotypicals, emphasis on the TYPICAL, typical meaning most common and expected. This makes us folks on the spectrum Neuro-atypical, or "not normal". Why is this something to be offended by? I've never understood it.


These books exploit these negative feelings and fear by further enhancing stigmas and by offereing quack cures. None of these books view autism as a developmental disorder.

The Empty Fortrass a best seller blamed the mothers for bieng so cold to thier kids they became not fully human. The Refrigirator Mother theory resulted in decades of autistic kids being seperated from their parents, parents told to remove all evidence that the kid existed and have years of psychotherapy for the mother to find out why she is such a monster.


The other more recent books view autism as a result of deliberate poisoning for profit. The idea is that you had a normal cute kid that has been taken over by the dopplehanger autism. These kids need to be “recovered” from the deamon autism by flushing the poisons out by any means neccessary. Diarrhea and vomiting from the miracle minimal solution(bleach enemas) painful to watch but that is the “treatment” working making your kid neurotypical so she claims.

No matter how much you love your kid and want the best for them if you view him or her as damaged you are likely to say and do bad things.

These books go beyond offensive to actually harmful. At best they misrepresent what autism is and cause false hope of “recovery”. They often cause physical and psychological damage to Autistics and their families.


I agree that incorrect information is harmful, but I personally doubt that any of these books come from a place of malicious intent.


I disagree. A lot of these books are written to stroke fears with the goal of profiting from whatever "cure" the author is selling. Even if the intention is good "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"


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lostonearth35
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03 Sep 2018, 12:34 pm

I wasn't diagnosed with Asperger's until I was in my late 20's in 2001, so my parent's didn't have any books on the subject. It's probably just as well since back when I was a kid books about autism in general would have probably been full of nonsense about "refrigerator mothers" and frequent use of the "R" word.



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03 Sep 2018, 12:42 pm

Not really an autism book but my mom had a book called The Difficult Child and it made me feel bad. The title was off putting for me. When you read it, you see many characteristics in it that are common in autism and sensory processing disorders and ADHD except all these kids are "normal" and their impairment is people not accepting them and not understanding them so they are having issues as a result of it. But I only read the title and judged the book by its cover.


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Sep 2018, 1:47 pm

B19 wrote:
I very much doubt that the maligned "refrigerator mothers" generation of mothers read those hateful and false claims made by Bettelheim and his acolytes. Nevertheless, they and their AS children were very negatively impacted by the falsehoods. There is plenty of evidence for this.


It was a best seller so somebody read it.

Bettelheim was arguably America’s first pop/celebrity psychologist with plenty of media exposure. Dick Cavett 1971 interview at 1:46



The above was a clip from this documentary.
Refrigerator Mothers - American Public Television


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 03 Sep 2018, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

B19
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03 Sep 2018, 2:05 pm

He faked his psychoanalytic qualifications. He was a pretty mixed up man,and eventually killed himself. Perhaps guilt played a part in that as well as impacts of his wartime experiences and deprivations.

People took these self-proclaimed "experts" very seriously, as they represented authority in a culture and time that was more authoritarian than decades after their heyday prior to the 1970s. Women who questioned these male authoritarian "experts" were treated in very harsh/dismissive and insulting ways. The misuse of power was very widespread, particularly by experts boosting and protecting their own career and self-interest.



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03 Sep 2018, 2:26 pm

The sad truth of it all is that the people who wrote these books did not have the actual feelings of autistic people in mind when writing them. Yet they tell us that we lack empathy. The authors just wanted to exploit the parents and make a quick buck from them. Overcoming Autism, from what I read so far, seems cure-supportive based on the tone. In the book, one line suggests that autism is essentially a form of brain damage equivalent to stroke or gunshot wounds to the brain. The book also suggests that the so-called brain-damaged autistic children can be cured with intensive therapy (probably including ABA) because this kind of treatment repairs faulty synapses and brain connections. What BS the authors were talking about! At least it does say that autistic children should not receive treatment that is not well-backed with scientific evidence.


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Sep 2018, 4:07 pm

B19 wrote:
He faked his psychoanalytic qualifications. He was a pretty mixed up man,and eventually killed himself. Perhaps guilt played a part in that as well as impacts of his wartime experiences and deprivations.

People took these self-proclaimed "experts" very seriously, as they represented authority in a culture and time that was more authoritarian than decades after their heyday prior to the 1970s. Women who questioned these male authoritarian "experts" were treated in very harsh/dismissive and insulting ways. The misuse of power was very widespread, particularly by experts boosting and protecting their own career and self-interest.


For the most part, the "experts" be it your school district, your teachers, your doctors, the local police, the President were not questioned by parents in the 1960s. Yes all of those society-changing protests were going on but they were in the big cities, or elite college campuses not where you were growing up.

Psychiatrists were doing all sorts of things that would not be acceptable today in the name of experimentation. The recent Documentary "Three Identical Strangers" is about three identical triplets that were separated at birth in 1961 placed in different households(one middle class, one upper middle class, one working class) to test nature vs nurture. The parents who adopted the babies were not told.


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03 Sep 2018, 4:29 pm

warrier120 wrote:
Some trigger words include burden, hopelessness, isolation, scary, etc. I myself have a strong sense of justice when it comes to causes that matter to me such as how autistic people should be treated. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself when I have been treated unfairly. So this book definitely seems fun to read. It also looks like something Autism Speaks would gladly promote.

First chapter's title:
Quote:
Chapter One: Surviving the Worst News You'll Ever Get
I busted up laughing when I read this. If that is the worst news you will ever get, your life is pretty shallow. Some books are really great to use as kindling material for a campfire.


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Last edited by skibum on 03 Sep 2018, 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Arganger
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03 Sep 2018, 4:33 pm

skibum wrote:
warrier120 wrote:
Some trigger words include burden, hopelessness, isolation, scary, etc. I myself have a strong sense of justice when it comes to causes that matter to me such as how autistic people should be treated. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself when I have been treated unfairly. So this book definitely seems fun to read. It also looks like something Autism Speaks would gladly promote.

First chapter's title:
Quote:
Chapter One: Surviving the Worst News You'll Ever Get
I busted up laughing when I read this. If that is the worst news you will ever get, your life if pretty shallow. Some books are really great to use as kindling material for a campfire.


It's mean to make even a fire eat that crap.


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Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


skibum
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03 Sep 2018, 4:53 pm

Arganger wrote:
skibum wrote:
warrier120 wrote:
Some trigger words include burden, hopelessness, isolation, scary, etc. I myself have a strong sense of justice when it comes to causes that matter to me such as how autistic people should be treated. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself when I have been treated unfairly. So this book definitely seems fun to read. It also looks like something Autism Speaks would gladly promote.

First chapter's title:
Quote:
Chapter One: Surviving the Worst News You'll Ever Get
I busted up laughing when I read this. If that is the worst news you will ever get, your life if pretty shallow. Some books are really great to use as kindling material for a campfire.


It's mean to make even a fire eat that crap.
LOL!


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03 Sep 2018, 4:58 pm

skibum wrote:
I busted up laughing when I read this. If that is the worst news you will ever get, your life if pretty shallow. Some books are really great to use as kindling material for a campfire.

So you're saying that these books and their authors should burn and rot in the fiery pits of hell? Agreed!

Speaking of hell, I imagine an alternate universe where everyone is autistic and being autistic is recognized as completely normal. This may be heaven for autistic people but hell for the authors of Overcoming Autism and similar books. Wouldn't you agree?


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omid
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04 Sep 2018, 5:47 am

warrier120 wrote:
skibum wrote:
I busted up laughing when I read this. If that is the worst news you will ever get, your life if pretty shallow. Some books are really great to use as kindling material for a campfire.

So you're saying that these books and their authors should burn and rot in the fiery pits of hell? Agreed!

Speaking of hell, I imagine an alternate universe where everyone is autistic and being autistic is recognized as completely normal. This may be heaven for autistic people but hell for the authors of Overcoming Autism and similar books. Wouldn't you agree?


"Curing SD-children. How to tackle the obstacles and pitfalls of growing your Socially Delusional child." :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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