... tried to distance himself from Nazi policies
25 Oct 2018, 5:38 pm
Because it IS different to how a NT operates. If there was no label, there would be no protections, no economic assistance, no therapeutic support, society, friends and family would view the child (and later adult) as someone who is just inherently rebellious, naughty, weird, shy, a bit dumb etc. The label exists to afford people who are affected by "autistic" traits to a severe enough degree some level of
. It might not be PERFECT, but it's better than having no protection and being at the mercy of society at large.
Well exploiting children is the norm. That is how the middle-class lives. They don't take responsibility for their own major life choices. So they end up blaming their own lives on the children that they did not need to have.
Does having the ability to concentrate on detailed things and to master bodies of material, as well as mystical abilities, and also a general rejection of the herd, require a disorder or difference label? I say no. We should be defending ourselves and others against such labels.
Protections and economic assistance should always be there for any who feel that they need them. They should not be contingent on accepting some kind of a stigma. Not in our society, and not in Nazi Germany.
And yes, abusive parents and other adults do look at children as "inherently rebellious, naughty, weird, shy, a bit dumb etc." So we need to act to protect ourselves and the children of today, by teaching such punitive adults some lessons. A large portion of the autism advocates seem to have grown up in such homes, and so the diagnosis they feel gives them some relief. But in fact they are just playing into the hands of the abusers.
So we should be practicing telling such abusers off and standing up to them.
We should be providing our own protection and assistance, and protecting the children of today. Disorder and difference labels are not protection, they are a serious form of abuse.
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
25 Oct 2018, 6:08 pm
Because it IS different to how a NT operates. If there was no label, there would be no protections, no economic assistance, no therapeutic support, society, friends and family would view the child (and later adult) as someone who is just inherently rebellious, naughty, weird, shy, a bit dumb etc. The label exists to afford people who are affected by "autistic" traits to a severe enough degree some level of
. It might not be PERFECT, but it's better than having no protection and being at the mercy of society at large.
Well exploiting children is the norm. That is how the middle-class lives. They don't take responsibility for their own major life choices. So they end up blaming their own lives on the children that they did not need to have.
Does having the ability to concentrate on detailed things and to master bodies of material, as well as mystical abilities, and also a general rejection of the herd, require a disorder or difference label? I say no. We should be defending ourselves and others against such labels.
Protections and economic assistance should always be there for any who feel that they need them. They should not be contingent on accepting some kind of a stigma. Not in our society, and not in Nazi Germany.
And yes, abusive parents and other adults do look at children as "inherently rebellious, naughty, weird, shy, a bit dumb etc." So we need to act to protect ourselves and the children of today, by teaching such punitive adults some lessons. A large portion of the autism advocates seem to have grown up in such homes, and so the diagnosis they feel gives them some relief. But in fact they are just playing into the hands of the abusers.
So we should be practicing telling such abusers off and standing up to them.
We should be providing our own protection and assistance, and protecting the children of today. Disorder and difference labels are not protection, they are a serious form of abuse.
Richard
For starters - my family are from a more working class background. Not a middle class background. You are making a massive generalisation with no facts to back it up. If what you are saying is true, why are there families like mine where I am the only one with an ASD whilst my siblings are nothing like that?
"Mystical abilities" wtf?
Being unable to look after yourself without support means there is something amiss. Yes, most Aspie's can live independent lives. People like myself and others even further along the spectrum can't. Stop chucking every autistic person under the same category. It's not fair.
Okay, so how do we decide who requires support and who doesn't then? Because I guarantee people would abuse that system.
I give up anyway. I think you're wrong, but you're obviously not going to change your mind, so carry on being wrong and making absurd statements, you're thankfully in the minority so things won't change to your way (and you would severely regret it if it did).
_________________
Take car. Go to mum's. Kill Phil, grab Liz, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
AQ-49 of 50
EQ-7 of 60
RDOS:
Neurodiverse (Aspie) score is 183 of 200.
Neurotypical (Non-autistic) score is 31 of 200
INTJ-T Personality type
25 Oct 2018, 6:20 pm
"Mystical abilities" wtf?
Being unable to look after yourself without support means there is something amiss. Yes, most Aspie's can live independent lives. People like myself and others even further along the spectrum can't. Stop chucking every autistic person under the same category. It's not fair.
Okay, so how do we decide who requires support and who doesn't then? Because I guarantee people would abuse that system.
I give up anyway. I think you're wrong, but you're obviously not going to change your mind, so carry on being wrong and making absurd statements, you're thankfully in the minority so things won't change to your way (and you would severely regret it if it did).
To be middle-class in a country like this does not mean to be middle-income. It is more a way of thinking, and identification system. Very hard for anyone to not be middle-class in their thinking. Trying to measure up to social expectations when there is no reason too?
What people are calling ASD seems to be a potential mode in people, some likely more than others. But this does not mean that we should be accepting or promoting the label.
William Stillman is the one who introduced the idea of mystical abilities. But I saw it in Lord of the Flies in the character Simon.
"unable to look after yourself without support "
I do not know what this entails. People are different. But being othered as a child and being put into muggle bullying schools, that does harm people.
The people who should get support are the people who want it. The assumption that people are inherently inclined to abuse is one of the ideas which parents use to abuse their own children.
We should be fighting back against such parents, protecting ourselves and protecting the children of today.
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
26 Oct 2018, 3:43 pm
So that's what it looks like. Accepting the Autism - Apserger's interpretation gives the child some protection from the hatred of the parents. Often this starts with the infliction of what Alice Miller calls the Narcisistic Wound. John Elder Robison writes about watching this being inflicted over and over on his son Cubby, in his third book. But Robison shows know signs that he understood what he was seeing.
And then for an adult, it helps them go on and exonerates the perpetrators. This always comes though in the writings of the ASD advocates. Accepting a severe personal stigma is far less painful than the truth.
And now we have explicit knowledge of what should have been obvious already, that this all is a continuation of the Nazi Eugenics program.
Here in this Jayne Lytel we have a frightening woman:
https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Agains ... ref=sr_1_1
One thing comes through the book loud and clear, the hatred that Lytel and the husband have for their younger son Leo.
And the book carries and endorsement from someone who has always claimed that herd mentality is normative, T. Berry Brazelton.
I believe that what we are calling autistic has actually existed long before there was a eugenics movement and a name for it. It is just one of the directions that many people could develop. And so the visceral negative reaction of Jane Lytel and her husband is something which would have developed evolutionarily. The shame, hatred, and contempt is there, before the Yale Lab can give the assessment.
But in the wisdom of tribal societies, they know that such persons are needed, and so they know to perform a parentectomy and to remove the child from peer culture and to place them into the hands of an adult shaman.
And this should be read:
https://www.amazon.com/War-Autism-Corpo ... ref=sr_1_1
And then I will have in had soon:
Frances Tustin / Sheila Spensley
https://www.amazon.com/Frances-Tustin-P ... ref=sr_1_2
According to Majia Holmer Nadesan, Tustin was the high water mark for treating ASD with Psychoanalysis. And I know that in South America they still tend to treat ASD with psychoanalysis, and they claim some good results.
Now I am not a fan of Psychotherapy, Psychoanalysis, Psychiatry, or even Life Coaching. They all amount to turning the experience of injustice back onto the survivor, making it the survivor's problem.
But nevertheless, I want to read the book, as Tustin is in effect saying that ASD is simply a normal and life affirming defensive response to people and situations who are malicious.
I have notice that for most people who supposedly suffer from ASD, things start to improve once they no longer live with their parents. But we must be vindicating the survivors, not letting the perpetrators off the hook.
So I look forward to reading of Tustin, this book about her first, before I try her own writings.
Autism is an experience, an experience of being different and of being persecuted. But it is not a disorder or a neurological difference. And so we should not be collaborating with those who promote it. We must fight to obtain penalties for the perpetrators, and reparations for the survivors.
Richard
27 Oct 2018, 3:29 pm
Prudolph, you write that your are of the INTJ-T personality type. I also am INTJ. But what does '-T' mean? Can you show me a link where I can read about this?
And so it has always been since time immemorial, the ones who have the skills and the artistry, they are not the ones who enjoy the fruits or make the decisions. No, that goes to the wheelers and dealers.
It goes back to when imperial despots displaced shamans and appropriated their symbols and invented religion.
And today, Sami Timimi says that it is the Neo-Liberal Capitalism of the Tony Blair administration which is responsible for the surge in ASD diagnoses in the UK.
And so yes, the one with autistic experience is the one who is of no use to Neo-Liberal Capitalism. No use unless that is, you can get them to accept, "Yes I suffer from ASD, a neurological difference, and so I need therapy, remedial instruction, chelation, and electromagnetic simulation of my neuronal circuits." Once you can get them to say that, then they are new fodder for Neo-Liberal Capitalism. They have been rendered harmless and pulled back in.
Richard
29 Oct 2018, 5:04 pm
So in hand now, "Frances Tustin", by Sheila Spensly, 1995
Imagine, treating autism with psychoanalysis, instead of with Applied Behavioral Analysis, Pivotal Response Therapy, Aversives Therapy, and Transcranial Magnets.
Don't get me wrong though, I am not a fan of Psychotherapy, Psychoanalysis, Psychiatry, Live Coaching, or Motivationalism. It is all turning the blame back onto the survivors, instead of punishing the perpetrators.
Also I see now that this Spensly book is part of a series, so it might not be that good for treating a radical.
Must consider also:
Encounters with autistic states : a memorial tribute to Frances Tustin / edited by Theodore and Judith L. Mitrani. (1997)
As said, Autism is a lived experience, not a disorder or a neurological difference. Rather, it is more like just being cast into the role of the one who is different, and then being persecuted.
So I am not going to call it Autism, Aspergers, or ASD anymore. Sami Timimi etal are correct, these things do not exist.
Rather I am going to speak of Shamanic Experience. This is just a person who seems to be in some other realm. They are in the world, but not of it. They are outside of the tribal emotional and linguistic realm.
And so one thing about the one living Shamanic Experience is often going to be, is that they are male and they are not as easily manipulated by women. And this will infuriate some women, and some men too.
One in Shamanic Experience may be quite caring and they may be very attentive and loyal in a committed relationship, like a marriage. But the woman cannot just pull the guy's strings and get him to react as she expects. He is caring, but he is still not part of the herd emotional experience. His survival has depended upon learning to live outside of that. So a woman cannot just make him do what she wants. And this might really provoke her, terrify her. She might say things like, "I can't feel anything ( from him )"
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
30 Oct 2018, 3:52 pm
So, this book about Frances Tustin is good. Even though small and part of a series, what it says is provocative.
Frances Tustin, born in England 1913.
She would go on to work with children. She objected to the Refrigerator Mother hypothesis. She felt that that was unfair and hurtful, and after she had lived and worked with the families of those children labeled as autistic, in Boston.
Her thinking though to me does seem much like Alice Miller. She is working with Freudian's and neo-Freudians. And she is influenced by D. W. Winnicott. And that is where Alice Miller came up with her idea of the Narcissistic Wound. Where as Refrigerator Mother sounds passive and inadvertent. Narcissistic Wound is active, and deliberate. The parent is using the child to fill an emotional emptiness, their own Narcissistic Wound. And the middle-class is like that, the first people to really have choice in how they live, but rejecting that choice and looking for ways to hide behind normalcy so that their own adult identity is not challenged. So what do they do? Well of course they go to Barnes and Nobles and buy some pedagogy manuals and have children.
So from my own observations and experience, when the child's very existence, the way that they are, is a problem for them, then that is coming from the parents.
But when the child maybe is somehow just 'different', but they have been able to go on and develop themselves and use their strengths, then there is no problem with the parents.
So let me stop explaining my own observations here and quote some from the book:
The Existential Threat
Many other psychoanalysts and thinkers have noted and studied this level of ontological insecurity, but none has been able to enlighten so obscure and area of the human mind as Tustin has done though her sensitive studies of the experiences of autistic children. Her images of the world as experienced by the autistic child, shutting out all 'not-me' experience and becoming immured in a sensation-dominated prison, are graphic and evocative. ...
Psychological Birth
Tustin uses a birth metaphor to portray her understanding of autism and sees the autistic child as having had to endure prematurely the onslaughts of psychical reality, before an adequately holding mental structure has been developed. 'Ripped untimely' from the symbiotic psychological membrane, the autistic child has been exposed to emotional life 'in the raw', untransformed by a containing object to modulate and to give meaning to experiences. Instead of giving psychological birth to a conception of mental space, in which relationships with live people are contained, there is a violent eruption into endless space perceived as a black hole. ...
The birth of the psyche is closely associated with the mother's physical care of the baby and its needs. Her ministrations promote an important sense of self-boundedness. ...
The crux of autism, says Tustin, is the tantrum. Paroxysms of rage, a white heat which melts down the personal empathic bridge upon which personality growth and development depend. Timing is intrinsic and critical. Tustin sees autism as a response to a very early trauma in which the infant is exposed prematurely to the reality of bodily separateness, before he has the mental equipment to comprehend it.
When the mother-infant couple cannot function in a way that makes bearable the awareness of separateness, then the resultant 'holes' in the 'emergent self' produce 'an agony of consciousness' which is unbearable. Symbiotic nurturing is exploded away, demolished almost as soon as it begins to be a possibility. Unable to make use of symbiosis, the child is left stranded in a world of transformed sensory objects. It is a world of inanition, originating in the need to be rid of an unbearable awareness of life and relationship with live objects. ...
Wow, how could one ever square any of that with Applied Behavioral Analysis, Pivotal Response Therapy, Aversives, Remedial Instruction in Social Skills, or Transcranial Magnets?
As others have pointed out, the concept of Autism - Aspergers - ASD could never have developed without the move towards universal schooling, and without the international eugenics movement.
Tustin was of course working under the influence of this. She was aware of Leo Kanner's work. She was aware of Bruno Bettelheim. And as he was running his Orthogenic School in Chicago, she was at the Putnam Center in Boston.
My own view is that Autism - Aspergers is a lived experience, not a disorder or a neurological difference. Mostly it amounts to being considered as Other, and then being persecuted. And this othering an persecution can be with our without White Coat assistance. That is, there have been others in human society long before there were ever medical schools and DSM manuals. So the tendency towards a negative response towards such a child will have been evolutionarily ingrained. But tribal wisdom can come in and perform the parentectomy and place that child under the care of an adult shaman.
So I am not going to ever call it Autism or Aspergers. I am calling it Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it, need to learn to protect ourselves and the children of today, and to never cooperate with any kind of Autism or Neurodiversity Advocacy.
Tustin had no awareness of the criminal work of Hans Asperger. But now that it has been exposed, I believe that that will embolden many who have been afraid to speak, and that there will be a bunch of new books critical of the concept of Autism - Aspergers - ASD. It is quite clearly just a way to justify the abuse of children and adults.
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
31 Oct 2018, 2:39 pm
So the book about Francis Tustin was good.
Plan to also read: Encounters with autistic states : a memorial tribute to Frances Tustin / edited by Theodore and Judith L. Mitrani. (1997)
The above might give me a better idea about where people are today about Tustin's ideas, hopefully rejecting this behavioral therapy, i.e. torture.
But first I do want to read about the Nazi Hans Asperger. I believe that now people who might have been frightened into silence will finally start to speak up and reject the Autism - Aspergers - Neuro-Diversity concept.
https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Childr ... ref=sr_1_1
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
13 Nov 2018, 5:00 pm
Autism-Aspergers are just concepts invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Mental Illness, largely the same, all intended to marginalize people, and often people who are already vulnerable, such as children. Targeting people not likely to fight back. Those being effected by such, need to start striking back. The labels die, once people start to understand that they will not be tolerated.
There is a broad range of temperament in people. And this is evident even in children. But this does not mean that there is any such thing as Autism, Aspergers, ADHD, Autism Spectrum Disorder, or anything like mental illness. The concepts only exist because of Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics.
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Mental-Illn ... 0061771228
Bruno Bettelheim always had serious credibility problems. And Refrigerator Mother was always a gross over simplification. It made it sound like it was something inadvertent.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M4 ... taft_p1_i2
But I believe that he got one thing right. When he looked into the faces of the children he was being sent, labeled as autistic, he could feel the fear, the utter terror. He knew that these were the same faces he saw when he was interned, first at Dachau, and then at Buchenwald.
And then we have Harry Harlow, a student of Stanford's Lewis Terman
http://e-repa.ru/files/translation/psyc ... harlow.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O81rk19Z__w
http://users.rcn.com/napier.interport/cwm/experim.html
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
