AS traits - Neither autistic or neurotypical -inconclusive

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If you take some time & read my signature, you'll see that I too fall in the in between camp. At the time of my diagnosis way-back-when, I only just barely fit the criteria. I don't know what I should call myself. Autistic? NT? Something else? Come on folks, I'm sure somebody here has an answer.

Answer to both Glflegolas and sorrowfairiewhisper: You are Autistic.

More broadly: You are Autistic, but wanting to pretend you're somehow a bit more "normal" so it doesn't feel as bad saying you're Autistic.

Look, honestly, if you're not sure if you're NT, then you're not. NTs don't have to question their sociability status. Asking the question means no, you're not NT. I think some of these self-proclaimed "very, very, very mild, super-high functioning, almost non-existent" Aspies are really scared to admit to their autism or hope it's not as noticeable and as much of an impairment as it is.

Look at the OP:



If you need that much "help and support" just to live a "relatively normal life" and are struggling to understand things, you're probably NOT an NT. Good news for the OP, find and marry an NT man who'll support you and you should be okay in life. On your own, you're at a loss, because you're clearly autistic.

This isn't meant to be rude or derogatory to anyone. It's just my brutally honest opinion. (Aspie's are know for such, I believe.)

In my own case I'm calling myself "autistic-like" rather than "autistic," at least for now, just to avoid arguments with people who have a problem with self-diagnosis. I do have noticeable autistic traits that I can't hide. (For example, I can't do eye contact during a conversation due to extreme difficulty multi-tasking between the content of a conversation and paying any attention at all to any visual stimuli whatsoever.) I also score within the "narrow autistic phenotype" range of the AQ test (score 36).

I am definitely not NT. If I am deemed to be not properly "autistic," then I must be something else that is almost exactly like autism but doesn't meet current diagnostic thresholds for ASD for some technical reason that would have more to do with the current state of the psychotherapeutic establishment than it has to do with me.

Thank you all for your responses.

Throughout my life, I was only classed with dyspraxia then mild to moderate learning difficult, I failed at school in terms of education and academically. I've since gone on to do exams though, better late than never. Like Glflegolas, it's too a grey area for me too. People that know me well, aren't sure if I am or not autistic, people that only speak to me briefly, automatically assume i'm not. Thanks Mona, you're right! tbh neurotypicals seems strange to me and not a term or a description or category that I fall under, i've always been drawn to people that are highly functioning or have some form of autism as subconsciously i've found them more relatable, this was even before i've ever considered having an assessment. Thanks for your brutal honesty, I doubt i'll find a nt man and yes I am at a loss, I am now, always have been, always will be. Thrown in the deep end and left to struggle. Btw thanks Mona for the recommendations and for explaning about the "Broad autism Phenotype" That's interesting to know IstominFan about your AQ test and being put into an in between category.

Thank you ezbzbfcg2 I think I am somewhat autistic. I just hope by seeking a second opinion, I don't get the same conclusion, I don't want another maybe but a simple yes or no.

AS traits? Any traits you could list are ones most all people display at some times. More than anything I would sasy that if you are going to say there is such a thing as Autism-Asperger's, then it is the experience of being othered and persecuted, to such an extent that one's chance to educate and develop themselves is taken from them.

Of course ASD could never exist with out the eugenics movement.

https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Aut ... 0415321816

So I say that ASD is a lived experience, not a disorder, deficiency, or neurological difference.

But I do not call it Autism or Aspergers, I call it Shamanic Experience.

I would tell all such doctors where they should stick it.

Usually if someone supports the idea of Autism - Aspergers, it is because they also support the ideas of Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

Richard

That is certainly NOT true, these days at least. It may have been true during the first half of the 20th century, when eugenics was fashionable and just about everyone in the Western world believed in it, but certainly not anymore.

You hear in the writings of the autism advocates, the pain they feel over not measuring up to normative expectations, and you can feel their relief over the assessment, as that exonerates their parents.

Vast numbers of people in the United States support Social Darwinism, and Eugenics too. They just don't admit it. They prefer instead to call it Libertarianism.

Richard

"Brutally honest" is the understatement of the century, TBH.

Did I ever say I am NT? Nope. You misinterpreted my post.

However, there are plenty of ways to be neither NT nor autistic. This image below might help drive home my point.

No one should have to prove anything to anyone or measure up to any standards. So there is no Normal.

There is only an issue of whether people are going to let white coats pin labels to them. I say that allowing this is a bad idea.

Rather, we who have shamanic abilities should be further developing these and banding together to protect ourselves, each other, and the children of today.

The concepts of Autism - Aspergers would never even have existed without the Eugenics Movement and the political doctrine of Social Darwinism.

Richard

You question if you should possibly call yourself NT, then later say you never even flirted with the idea.

If you can easily and naturally engage with most people around you without any extra help and are able to thrive independently, you are, for all purposes, NT. If you don't have to ponder where you fit in socially, if most people seem normal to you and only a small few seem strange and non-understandable, you are NT.

If you need charts and want to question what to call yourself, welcome to Asperger's (for better or worse), just being real here. You got the answer you asked for, even if you don't like hearing it. You're Autistic, sorry to inform you. (You asked for opinions).

The term I proposed was "autistic-like," not "autistic light." By "autistic-like," I mean to refer to a category narrower than "Broad Autism Phenotype" (which, as I said, probably includes the majority of professors, programmers, and librarians), but slightly broader than "autistic." The point is to have a term that, from the get-go, is NOT a diagnostic term, but a term intended purely for self-identification by people who have multiple significant problems in common with autistic people. With "autistic-like," the people themselves, not any outside authority figures, get to determine how significant their own problems have to be in order to be significant "enough" to matter.

What you said about how nobody should prove anything to anyone nor have there standards measured is true! we do live in a world, where we have to know or go by our "IQ" to determine how "intelligent" one is. If you don't strive nor do well academically you're classed as being "dumb" .What you said about ASD being like a lived experience than a disorder or neurological disorder difference or deficiency is insightful! you've really got me reflecting on that thank you. Thank you and thanks for the amazon link, will check that out.

Beautiful Planet, just a rotten political and economic system.

There are those opposed to the Nazi Party, there always have been. And there were those who supported it. And there still are. They just call it something else, instead of Social Darwinism and Eugenics, they call it Libertarianism.

The reactionary political thinking in most of these autism-apserger's advocates comes through loud and clear.

John Elder Robison says, "They don't owe you an accommodation", as he is slated for a transcranial magnet zap. Well, this is the view he subsumed from his parents. Not only do they owe you any needed accommodation, they also have no right at all to impose any type of standard whatsoever.

Mona P.,
What do you think about the concept of 'Shamanic Experience' or just 'Shamanic' ?

Richard

Shamanic means altered state of consciousness right? also interaction with spirits. I'm beginning to sort of understand where you're coming from, with the Social Darwinism and Eugenics "survival of the fittest" ideology. Years ago, it was shameful to be "autistic" then it was rather favoured, as people thought it meant every person with aspergers, had a high IQ. Interesting concept.

According to:

https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Aut ... ing+autism

The idea that autism - aspergers is something chic or positive is based on the view that it means some special proficiency with computers.

And then one of the main people promoting this is:

https://www.amazon.com/Neurotribes-Lega ... eurotribes

But Nadesan and others point out that this special proficiency is not always there, and computer programmers still have to work with ordinary people in competitive and high pressure groups.

Trying to make autism-Asperger's into some sort of a chic is just like it has always been, parents exploiting their children, trying to use them to get a public identity, and promoting neo-liberalism and upwards social mobility.

I still say it is better to reject the whole thing outright, and forcefully.

Well yes, Shamanic is often going to mean altered states of consciousness and interaction with spirits.

But I don't think that is really what is central. Mostly it is just a contemplative personality.

I get the idea from a few sources. First, the character Simon in Lord of the Flies. Going into a thicket to commune with nature, then becoming the first boy killed by Jack and his Pig Hunters.

Second, a guy I do not go along with, because he panders to parents, but still well worth reading and understanding, and quite compelling:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/16016 ... bl_vppi_i7

As I have seen it for decades, the real issue is simply not being one of the herd. All judgments of defect, deficiency, and difference are always relative to that.

So decades ago I read a book for an anthropology class which explained how it goes with shaman. Tribal elders are always looking for children who display 'mystical tendencies'. When they find one they separate the child from all muggle socialization practices, and from their parents. They are placed under the complete care of an adult shaman.

Whereas with muggles, adulthood is reached at puberty. With a shamanic candidate, the path to adulthood is longer and more arduous. It might go on up until age 30.

Some people are just not interested in the herd or in conforming to it. So yes, some will see this as altered states of consciousness and spirits. Others might see it as having to do with things like say, mathematics, music, religious mysticism, philosophy, or more.

Shamans are the ones who hold the boundaries of the tribe. They are in the tribe, but they are not really of it.