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Mainstream kids or not?

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ScottieKarate
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24 Mar 2019, 1:35 am

PoseyBuster88 wrote:
If you see the purpose of school to be preparation for life, I think mainstreaming makes a lot of sense. There are very few jobs, churches, social clubs, etc. that cater to autistic people. Most are designed for and dominated by NTs. So starting that adjustment process early on may help him be better prepared for a lifetime largely spent in a nuerotypical world.

That said, I think it is important to be sensitive to the fact that he will need consistent affirmation that it is okay to be himself and stim or whatever he needs to do, especially when he is at home. It will also be important to find regular times and places he can be in an accepting environment with (ideally) autistic peers. Or at the very least a hobby/special interest outside school, so that if (when) school is socially challenging, he has an outlet. And keep the lines of communication open so that he knows it is okay to tell you he is NOT okay in normal classes if that's the case.

He may also benefit from some formal social education about how NTs interact (some "politeness ground rules" so to speak) and/or time to process any interactions that were confusing or didn't go as expected. His classmates may benefit from some education as well. At their young age, they are probably more likely to be curious and accepting if they know a little bit about autism.

Those are my thoughts. I am not an expert though, just going based on how my, and especially my brother's, school experiences went.

THanks, great stuff!! He has character for days, and yeah, I wouldn't let them restrict him from being himself.

You're so right about the need to get him prepared to thrive in the NT world. He'll get thrown in there at some point. I agree it's probably better to get as much of that learning curve out of the way as possible early. The question is whether or not he is capable of following along enough to thrive in that world right now.



ScottieKarate
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24 Mar 2019, 1:37 am

EyeDash wrote:
ScottieKarate wrote:
Thanks everyone for the great replies! You've given me a lot of very useful info to think about. @eyedash do you feel the path you took helped you navigate the NT world a bit more than you would have otherwise? Would you have stayed in some kind of specialized program if you could do it again?

I really valued the special program I was in up until I was 4 years old. I liked the other kids a lot and still remember Bubba and Adam and Matt, close to 60 years later. And most of all I was helped by the attention I received (it was a small group that varied from 4-6 kids) and being accepted as different - for what I am. My parents had very bad reactions to my autism and I wound up in that program when my mom had something of a breakdown in part because she had trouble handling my reactions to being fed and touched (being fed was to me like being gagged and having a spoon rammed into my mouth and throat) and she was in the hospital for her episode and for losing her temper and physically attacking me. My parents never accepted me being different and took me out of the special program at the first opportunity (when I spoke at 4 years old). I realize that the "grass often seems greener" elsewhere and if I could have gotten the acceptance of my condition and gotten attention and care for addressing my social, physical coordination, and communication difficulties elsewhere, I likely wouldn't remember the special program with such longing. Although in mainstream public school I didn't meet other kids with disabilities until high school when they mainstreamed a group of deaf kids in my school - and growing up around solely neurotypical kids left me with a lack of having friends like me who I could identify with, or aspire to be like. I try to make up for that now here on WrongPlanet and in the autism support group I used to attend. As to the question about learning to better navigate the NT world by attending mainstream school - that's one of the big positives. I was able to excel in my professional career, work with some great engineers and scientists to advance certain cutting-edge technologies, got my name on 11 patents, managed other engineers for about a decade, made numerous technical presentations in front of customers, worked on classified programs - plus in my personal life I was able to travel to Mexico and Germany a number of times, navigate buying a condo and a couple of houses, got married (and divorced) twice - and much of this required interpersonal and communication skills that I initially learned in mainstream public school. It's sort of a trade-off of being accepted, being my authentic self and having other autistic peers in special education versus being able to successfully navigate and succeed in the neurotypical and professional worlds. A trade-off of the heart versus the head, basically. Having success and fulfillment in accomplishments and now being retired, I miss the fulfillment of the heart. The grass is always greener, and I long for what I didn't have in life, but we make choices of necessity and despite the feelings of incompleteness, I'm certainly grateful for having been able to function as I did. Even though I may "pass" for normal among NTs, it's inauthentic: I'm still 100% autistic inside. Yet I now find I'm unable to stop "passing".

All true. Great stuff. That has given me a lot to think about.



ScottieKarate
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24 Mar 2019, 1:41 am

Tawaki wrote:
Million dollar question...

Is your son doing well because he needs the scaffolding (support), and the scaffolding is getting him work to his full potential?

Or

Is your son doing fabulous, and doesn't need it anymore.

The district were I work, ASD supports ate up a ton of the SPED budget. So in my district, your son would have been mainstreamed right off the bat. It was hell to get a support person in the classroom. If the ASD child wasn't continuously screaming, biting or smearing pop on the wall, he was mainstreamed.

So I'm a little cynical about districts trying to shove everyone out with little support and into a main streamed class room, under the guise of "doing well"

If this goes to s**t in 3rd grade, how flexible is your school? If your child is main streamed, how hard is it to get a little help? 1st through 3rd grade is when kids make a huge leap with social skills. It's less, "I'll show you my Legos, and we can sandbox play." to more talk and social interactions. This can be incredibly difficult for someone on the spectrum. Frustration leads to acting out, and by third grade, the teachers have no time for that.

Around here, 1st grade is really the new 2nd grade. If your child can't take turns, be quiet (with in reason), follow directions and keep his butt in the chair, it's a really miserable year.

I guess I would need assurances how the school will handle things not normally tolerated in a class of 26 1st graders. Pick your son's worse issues and ask them point blank how it will be handled. Low frustration tolerance? Overt slimming? Roaming around?

What happens around here, when someone else's kids act up, the classroom parents fire up complaints to the principal and school board, because "our children's education is being ruined by kid with behaviors x, y and z."

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer. Maybe your terrific little boy is really doing that well! :D

Just keep this other stuff in the back of your head. Sometimes the hard sell isn't solely because of your kid, but the district saving $30K per year on a 1:1, or one less body in a expensive special education class.

Let's us know what happens :heart:

Thank you! You nailed a lot of the issues right on the head here. I wish I could get him a 1:1, but that ain't happenin. If we do mainstream him, he can always go back, I'm sure. As far as behaviors, he can't really sit still. He doesn't follow directions, he acts on impulses without thinking first, and he gets frustrated quickly when he doesn't get what he wants. If he were in mainstream kindergarten, he would be the kid that the teacher had to remind to do EVERYTHING. The biggest reason I don't push harder for it is because I know how hard it would be on the teacher.

The district is really good though. I don't anticipate too much of a problem with them regardless.



ScottieKarate
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24 Mar 2019, 1:44 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that mainstreaming would be a much better choice than Special Ed. It's the modern way of doing things and it's beneficial for both your son and his peers. I liked high school better than elementary school because I was mainstreamed in high school. Sure, most of my peers were snots but it sure beat being in Special Ed 80% of the time the way I was in elementary school.

That's great info. I know many studies say it's beneficial for both my son and his peers, but there are a few studies out that don't agree that this is the case. And it may not be beneficial for the teacher.



ScottieKarate
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24 Mar 2019, 2:10 am

I wanted to add another little piece to the equation. The class he's in now is like the Cadillac of special ed classes. There are two groups, K-2, 3-5. And they mingle a lot. 16 kids between the two groups, almost all of which are high-functioning ASD kiddos. The rest have some form of behavioral issue, usually aggression. So, for my son, being in kindergarten, having all these older kids around is helping him quite a bit socially. However, they still have meltdowns and behavior issues at times, so my son may learn a couple of those behaviors, instead of learning to cope with difficulties the way NT kids do. But they're all really tight. They look out for and root for each other. He'll have friends as long as he is there and won't get bullied by any of them. And the teacher is fantastic. Sharp. The perfect blend of smart, loving and stern. She loves them all a lot, but holds them all to a standard, and doesn't let them get away with less. She's been teaching this class for 7 years, and has her program rolling. The kids get points throughout the day based on their behavior, and earn rewards twice a day, and then on Friday based on their week. She sends me home worksheets every day about his behavior. And there are two aides, so 3:8 ratio. Also, since there are older kids, my son who is good at math and reading gets to 2nd and 3rd grade work. They can personalize his academics. He will thrive in a lot of ways in this class.

Before kindergarten started, we looked into a ton of options for Sammy. We talked to a handful of districts around the area, and parents of kids that went there, really trying to find the best option. There's a school that's an ABA center. There's a shiny new Autism school that we were considering. Very expensive. How do we decide what to do? The first plan from our district was to have him in mainstream about 50% of the time and in the learning center (special ed that emphasis behavior rather than academics) the rest. But his preschool teacher really pulled her bosses to let my son come into this other class. And I'm really happy with it. I felt extremely lucky. It was like we got that private school for free.

That's what makes this so hard. I've been a proponent of mainstreaming for many of the reasons a lot of you folks mentioned above. Like it or not, it's an NT world, and the longer we delay putting him into mainstream class, the further behind in that world he could get. But is that really the best thing for him right now?



PoseyBuster88
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25 Mar 2019, 10:11 pm

Wow, that class sounds pretty amazing.

Another option to consider would be finding social activities with NT peers outside of school for now. If you attend a church, have him attend whatever children's programs/classes they offer. Sign him up for an activity/club. Take him to the park or playground and assign him "social homework" to, for example, smile at someone while looking towards their face and say "Hi, my name is ____. Can I play with you?" Or similar. Something like that might be a good compromise for right now. I've heard mentioned that acting classes are helpful for learning social behaviors...if he is interested in drama at all, you could look into something like a children's theater.

A great idea might be to meet with his teacher and see what she thinks about the various options/ideas you have. Be honest that you LOVE her class and her teaching style, but you want to make sure he is learning enough social skills to prepare him for when he is "mainstreamed" at some point in school or his career. See what she thinks.

And, slight tangent, check out the Autistic/NT "hotline" forum. There are some great questions from autistic people answered by NTs that you may find helpful. It may show you the types of things he may not just "know" about interacting with others, so you can help to fill those gaps when age-appropriate. I remember reading articles along the way that mentioned "normal" eye contact, or the differences between genuine smiles and polite smiles and having these "aha!" moments. If I had learned that stuff at a very young age, it may have helped people not think I was angry/bored so often when I was little.


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