What's it like for non-verbal autistics?

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23 Sep 2019, 1:32 am

EzraS wrote:

Speech is actually a very complected neurological process.
Not just saying words but also forming sentences and verbally conversing.
Those connections just are not there for the nonverbal.
I am nonverbal in that I can not hold a conversation.
I can say a word here and there and if I put a lot of effort into it I can read words off a list. But that is all.
Think of something you can't do. Some people can't snap their fingers or whistle or juggle or play a piano or whatever. The neurological connection just is not there.

Apraixa or dyspraxia of speech is an oral motor speech disorder where the mouth and tongue are uncoordinated. I have that problem as well.

Selective mutism is more of a psychological block.

I really appreciate this description. It's very helpful. Most of my studies have been in linguistics, and I find developmental linguistics fascinating, but it's all very clinical.

I experience selective mutism at times, but it's definitely just like my brain is rebooting and with time and space it comes back.

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magz
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23 Sep 2019, 1:59 am

EzraS wrote:

Very thorough explanation, thanks!

Just as you said, speech is a very complex process and problems may occur on any stage.
I just recently read that there are two separate regions in brain dedicated to speech.

Broca's area is responsible for forming sentences, Wernicke's area is responsible for attributing meaning to words. Then you need to physically produce speech - when prescribed wrong medication (this medicantion made me "more autistic" also in other dimensions, btw), I struggled with synchronizing all the involved muscles to produce speech.
Selective mutism / choosing not too speak may be correlated with weaker but functional speaking abilities but it's just my wild guess. Seeing my daughter prefers to draw a complicated picture over a simple sentence, especially when she's upset - I guess she thinks in pictures and words don't "come to her" as pictures do. But she's verbal, just prefers other forms of communication if available.

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Mona Pereth
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24 Sep 2019, 4:54 am

EzraS wrote:

You nevertheless managed to learn to read and write very well. Do you remember how you learned to read and write/type? And is there any advice you would give to anyone trying to teach a nonverbal autistic child to read and write?

(Unfortunately, to this day, as far as I am aware, relatively few nonverbal autistic children are given good opportunities to learn to read and write.)

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24 Sep 2019, 5:27 am

Like with the famous case of Carly Fleischmann, nonverbal autistic people sometimes “pull the bull by the horns,” and just start typing when given minimal exposure to computers.

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24 Sep 2019, 5:27 am

magz wrote:

I just recently read that there are two separate regions in brain dedicated to speech.

Broca's area is responsible for forming sentences, Wernicke's area is responsible for attributing meaning to words.

I've read that there've been studies showing a difference in the size of Broca's area in some autistics, which may be related to verbal difficulties. If so, it would suggest difficulties with finding the right word and putting words together into sentences, but it wouldn't prevent understanding of meaning when spoken to (which is Wernicke's area).

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24 Sep 2019, 12:08 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I guess it depends on the level of autism and if intellectual disability is involved. For me I developed from level 3 severe to level 2 moderate/ severe by the time I was 8. I was taught how to read and write in special education school, but it did not really take. Using the teaching I had received I pretty much taught myself how to read. Writing was an extension of that. Basically I copied what was written in books as far as using words, terms and punctuation etc. I type very slowly and only use one or two fingers. I often have to take pauses.

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24 Sep 2019, 12:11 pm

MrsPeel wrote:

magz wrote:

I just recently read that there are two separate regions in brain dedicated to speech.

Broca's area is responsible for forming sentences, Wernicke's area is responsible for attributing meaning to words.

I was able to understand what was being said early on when it came to overhearing. Or watching TV. Even though I did not respond to what was being said to me.

Last edited by EzraS on 24 Sep 2019, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Sep 2019, 12:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Like with the famous case of Carly Fleischmann, nonverbal autistic people sometimes “pull the bull by the horns,” and just start typing when given minimal exposure to computers.

I believe the first thing she ever typed was "teeth hurt help". Sometimes something eventually clicks and sometimes it doesn't. A "your mileage may vary" situation.

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24 Sep 2019, 1:14 pm

EzraS wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

I have periods when I go nonverbal under stress. For me, I know the words I want to say, but my mouth won’t work to make them come out. If I try, it could take several minutes of effort to produce one word, which is very frustrating. I’m voluntarily semi-verbal, and use a writing pad even when my speaking ability is intact, because creating speech is very physically tiring, and sometimes I just don’t want to.

That's selective mutism. But you are also expressing that being verbal is not something that comes naturally to you.

Selective mutism is an anxiety disorder in which a person is too socially anxious to speak in specific situations, despite being physically able to do so. I feel no anxiety during periods when I can’t speak, just frustration, and I physically cannot use speech even though I want to, in contrast to selective mutes. My episodes are also not situation-based; when I lose my words, they are gone no matter where I am or who I am with.

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magz
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24 Sep 2019, 2:04 pm

StarTrekker wrote:

That's quite similar to what I experienced on wrong medication: the words and sentences formed in my mind but I needed enormous effort to draw them out. Like doing it was so overwhelming that it triggered a shutdown.

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24 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm

StarTrekker wrote:

EzraS wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

That's selective mutism. But you are also expressing that being verbal is not something that comes naturally to you.

In mutism due to anxiety the person is not necessarily physically able to speak. The person may actually move their mouth and feel like there's no connection between their vocal cords and brain. The person may also be unable to speak because their brain is unable to form sentences or words due to anxiety.
It's still true that your condition is not selective mutism if you don't feel anxiety during these periods, though.

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24 Sep 2019, 9:36 pm

StarTrekker wrote:

EzraS wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

That's selective mutism. But you are also expressing that being verbal is not something that comes naturally to you.

Is there a term for that? I have gone completely mute when going in for speech therapy and the whole session was sitting around waiting to see if I would start being able to vocalize. Sometimes that happened half way through and I was able to get going, other times it was all day. But I usually did not feel well those days. Tired edgy stressed unhappy etc. But usually when I'm feeling alright and everything is going alright I can squeeze out a word or two here and there.

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24 Sep 2019, 9:56 pm

StarTrekker wrote:

I was assessed as selective mute, and StarTrekker's description is very similar to the way I feel. There seems to be a spectrum of triggers for my silence. Sometimes it is stress-related, sometimes it's alexithymia (not having any idea what to say), sometimes it's sensory because I can't tolerate making any noise, and sometimes it's a physical shutdown where my mouth won't work and I can't form the right words -- even when I wish otherwise. I find speech exhausting and emotionally invasive at the best of times. I've always struggled with communication unless it's written.

In addition to being born selective mute, I had a stroke which led to me losing some articulation. Quite often I will grope for words or slur my speech despite having done a year of speech therapy. Incidentally, I also did speech therapy as a child.

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Mona Pereth
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25 Sep 2019, 6:54 am

It seems to me that selective mutism is something that can happen even to many NTs. The words "speechless" and "dumbfounded" are commonly used in contexts implying that it's something that can happen to almost anyone under sufficiently astonishing circumstances. Apparently many autistic people have a lower-than-average threshold for this phenomenon?

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25 Sep 2019, 6:20 pm

EzraS wrote:

Apraixa or dyspraxia of speech is an oral motor speech disorder where the mouth and tongue are uncoordinated. I have that problem as well.

do those two words mean similar things?

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26 Sep 2019, 12:48 pm

skibum wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Apraixa or dyspraxia of speech is an oral motor speech disorder where the mouth and tongue are uncoordinated. I have that problem as well.

do those two words mean similar things?

They are used interchangeably as far as I know.

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