05 Feb 2021, 5:15 pm
Clueless2017 wrote:
And the word MASKING is no exception...It implies that the individual is purposely trying to be deceitful in order to hide something, perhaps something malicious... 
Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...
Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...But that is not the definition of masking. It means to conceal something from view, disguise or hide a quality, or cover an object. Being deceitful or malicious is not implicit. Masking is simply hiding your autistic self. It can be for self preservation or comfort, neither of which are deceitful or malicious. No one has a right to demand I "reveal" myself in all of my autistic g(l)ory (even NTs mask in social situations, but they simply can do it intuitively). I should be able to chose to show my autistic nature or hide it as I see fit, just as NTs do. The problem about the amount of energy it takes is just a logistical problem of masking--we don't have the intuitive processes to navigate it well.
But masking is not mimicry, which is imitating someone. Even when masking, I can preserve my identity. I am not trying to be someone else, I am just trying to behave as to not upset or offend the people I am with.
05 Feb 2021, 5:18 pm
Double Retired
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05 Feb 2021, 5:32 pm
dragonsanddemons
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05 Feb 2021, 5:36 pm
05 Feb 2021, 5:42 pm
Mountain Goat wrote:
One part of masking is for me is a means to enable one to be able to communicate in an understandable way to those who one would not be able to relate to if one is not able to mask.
It is an "Ac,t" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
It is an "Ac,t" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
... ... ...
Thank you for sharing your experience...You are one of many examples of FORTITUDE in this forum...Yes, those like you, on the spectrum, have many strengths...[Thumbs-up]...
By the way, mimicry is just the act of copying or imitating others' behavior with no ill intent...
05 Feb 2021, 5:46 pm
Jiheisho wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
And the word MASKING is no exception...It implies that the individual is purposely trying to be deceitful in order to hide something, perhaps something malicious... Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...
Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...But that is not the definition of masking. It means to conceal something from view, disguise or hide a quality, or cover an object. Being deceitful or malicious is not implicit. Masking is simply hiding your autistic self. It can be for self preservation or comfort, neither of which are deceitful or malicious. No one has a right to demand I "reveal" myself in all of my autistic g(l)ory (even NTs mask in social situations, but they simply can do it intuitively). I should be able to chose to show my autistic nature or hide it as I see fit, just as NTs do. The problem about the amount of energy it takes is just a logistical problem of masking--we don't have the intuitive processes to navigate it well.
But masking is not mimicry, which is imitating someone. Even when masking, I can preserve my identity. I am not trying to be someone else, I am just trying to behave as to not upset or offend the people I am with.
... ... ...
In the world of NTs, words have hidden meanings, both positive or negative...Masking has a negative connotation that will be implied and not necessarily stated explicitly in a dictionary...This is exactly my point and my concern...
05 Feb 2021, 5:47 pm
05 Feb 2021, 5:54 pm
Double Retired wrote:
Of the two, I guess I would lean toward unconscious "mimicry". But I think my experience might have been more along the lines of "negative reinforcement". Over time you learn what to do to avoid negative responses►
... ... ...
You are so-o-o right...Mimicry is a direct result of negative reinforcement...
05 Feb 2021, 6:00 pm
05 Feb 2021, 6:09 pm
Clueless2017 wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
And the word MASKING is no exception...It implies that the individual is purposely trying to be deceitful in order to hide something, perhaps something malicious... Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...
Therefore, in my humble opinion, this term does NOT and should NOT be applied to people on the spectrum...But that is not the definition of masking. It means to conceal something from view, disguise or hide a quality, or cover an object. Being deceitful or malicious is not implicit. Masking is simply hiding your autistic self. It can be for self preservation or comfort, neither of which are deceitful or malicious. No one has a right to demand I "reveal" myself in all of my autistic g(l)ory (even NTs mask in social situations, but they simply can do it intuitively). I should be able to chose to show my autistic nature or hide it as I see fit, just as NTs do. The problem about the amount of energy it takes is just a logistical problem of masking--we don't have the intuitive processes to navigate it well.
But masking is not mimicry, which is imitating someone. Even when masking, I can preserve my identity. I am not trying to be someone else, I am just trying to behave as to not upset or offend the people I am with.
... ... ...
In the world of NTs, words have hidden meanings, both positive or negative...Masking has a negative connotation that will be implied and not necessarily stated explicitly in a dictionary...This is exactly my point and my concern...
I agree that people project meanings into words, but it is not consistent nor helpful. You have given a negative connotation to masking, but I haven't. I have no concern about the meaning of masking.
Mimicry is something I find negative because it is the imitation of someone else, implying autists don't have their own identity and personality. It is hard enough being autistic with people thinking we simply are badly behaved without then implying we imitate people because we can't have our own identity. To me that is not a great descriptor.
If you don't like the "masking," you could use other established descriptors like "covering" or "code switching," which would be accurate. Personally, I like to stick with terms and their definition. NTs tend to be sloppy with their language and it simply because a conversation about how people "feel" and what they are "comfortable" with. The conversation just simply becomes arbitrary.
Sorry, you are just going to have to blame my black and white thinking on autism. But that is OK: social and peer pressure is just not a thing with me.
dragonsanddemons
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,659
Location: The Labyrinth of Leviathan
05 Feb 2021, 6:10 pm
05 Feb 2021, 6:14 pm
Clueless2017 wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
One part of masking is for me is a means to enable one to be able to communicate in an understandable way to those who one would not be able to relate to if one is not able to mask.
It is an "Act" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
It is an "Act" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
... ... ...
Thank you for sharing your experience...You are one of many examples of FORTITUDE in this forum...Yes, those like you, on the spectrum, have many strengths...[Thumbs-up]...
By the way, mimicry is just the act of copying or imitating others' behavior with no ill intent...
The masking I do concentrates more on hiding ones differences then copying others.
I realize that I am not the same enough to fit in as others do, but I can sort of hide my traits if that makes sense? I always had and have a fear of being discovered when in school, collage and the various places that I have worked in, but though I was always afraid of being "Discovered", I could not put my finger on what it was. I was always afraid of being in a prime position in front of people when in school. I wanted to be somewhere at the back on my own but because I was so quiet, I was never allowed and I was put at the front where everyone could see me.
Being near a door put me more at ease as I had the option to run.
I would not be able to be in a school today if I was a child because todays schools have cages round their perimiters, and these tall fences with gates would make me panic if I was inside. I would no way be able to work in such an enviroment as it would be constantly on my mind.
05 Feb 2021, 7:54 pm
Why so many words...
Combined with a one asocial autistic POV.I aim to integrate and harmonize myself.
Autonomy and choice, not some imposed conditioning driven by fear.
I do not like to mask. It's something I wouldn't do, yet it may not something I simply could do.
Yet I can blend, but that's more of a physical and an internal self regulating skill, than an external oriented mental skill like most socially driven autistics would do.
05 Feb 2021, 11:42 pm
Edna3362 wrote:
Why so many words...
I aim to integrate and harmonize myself.
Autonomy and choice, not some imposed conditioning driven by fear.
I do not like to mask. It's something I wouldn't do, yet it may not something I simply could do.
Yet I can blend, but that's more of a physical and an internal self regulating skill, than an external oriented mental skill like most socially driven autistics would do.
I aim to integrate and harmonize myself.
Autonomy and choice, not some imposed conditioning driven by fear.
I do not like to mask. It's something I wouldn't do, yet it may not something I simply could do.
Yet I can blend, but that's more of a physical and an internal self regulating skill, than an external oriented mental skill like most socially driven autistics would do.
... ... ...
My husband does not likes to mask neither...And i am grateful for this...As i will never be one of those NT wives that complain on the internet about their husband on the spectrum having being deceitful before the marriage and now they want out...
I suppose this is one of the reasons that i don't like the term 'masking', because you on the spectrum may be accused of being deceitful...And i cannot help taking it personal as it is too close to my heart...
05 Feb 2021, 11:44 pm
Mountain Goat wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
One part of masking is for me is a means to enable one to be able to communicate in an understandable way to those who one would not be able to relate to if one is not able to mask.
It is an "Act" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
It is an "Act" not done to decieve but to alter ones natural wavelength to be on the same mental "Channel" as how others communicate.
This act can only be sustaied for a certain length of time before others discover it is an act and this is when the bullying begins.
I was bullied before I learned how to mask. Masking is lie a sustained commedy act, but instead of only having to act to ones audience for maybe an hour or two ever other month, one has to keep up this act day in day out when one isnin contact with other people, especially in large groups, hence why the exhaustion eventually comes in and also why one may seem to be exhausted through a day of social interaction while others find a socially interacting day stimilating and it refreshes them (But they are not having to mask, so they will not have to be doing two or more things at once in a mental way).
Probably the largest discovery about myself is to realize what has been going on as I was taught that anything classed as "Mental" one should not look into or be associated with it, as in the area where I live, people have been locked away in mental homes for very little in the past, so people learned not to talk about such things, so for me to discover that some of my struggles were based on "How" one thinks and has to compensate ones thinking to enable one to relate to how other people deal with life in the outside world... It explains to me why I tended to feel like I was at a dissadvantage and found that I seemed to need to put more effort then others did to learn the same things. This does not mean that I did not succeed, but it meant that it took me a little more effort to do this.
However, in other ways I do have an advantage, but to share my advantages would often be met by jelousy amongst those who could not see life in the same ways, so I would often be a victim of various hidden attacks and bullying. (Hidden attacks, like a time when I was in a metalwork lesson and two jelous kids decided to destroy what I had made (Months of work) which resulted in me having to start all over again, and many such events like this. I asked "Why do I have to make another? You saw the one I made before?" but my reasoning was ignored and I was ordered to start again which meant a lot of hard work when the rest of the class were relaxing and learning new stuff. This is just ONE example of how I found through life that I have found things to be a struggle, and yet I am mentally strong enough to forgive those who have hurt me, which is neccessary because I have an exceedingly good memory).
I do not know what mimicry is or means. A tiny cry?
... ... ...
Thank you for sharing your experience...You are one of many examples of FORTITUDE in this forum...Yes, those like you, on the spectrum, have many strengths...[Thumbs-up]...
By the way, mimicry is just the act of copying or imitating others' behavior with no ill intent...
The masking I do concentrates more on hiding ones differences then copying others.
I realize that I am not the same enough to fit in as others do, but I can sort of hide my traits if that makes sense? I always had and have a fear of being discovered when in school, collage and the various places that I have worked in, but though I was always afraid of being "Discovered", I could not put my finger on what it was. I was always afraid of being in a prime position in front of people when in school. I wanted to be somewhere at the back on my own but because I was so quiet, I was never allowed and I was put at the front where everyone could see me.
Being near a door put me more at ease as I had the option to run.
I would not be able to be in a school today if I was a child because todays schools have cages round their perimiters, and these tall fences with gates would make me panic if I was inside. I would no way be able to work in such an enviroment as it would be constantly on my mind.
... ... ...
As always, very insightful...Thank you...
05 Feb 2021, 11:45 pm
dragonsanddemons wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
NaturalEntity wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
What I do is best described as “hiding.” Not even really just my autism or my “true self,” mostly me altogether. I’ve unknowingly mastered the art of not drawing attention to myself, and basically am like a decorative fake plant - I may get an initial perfunctory notice, but then it’s basically like I don’t even exist. Can’t “mask” or “mimic” to save my life, so this is my coping mechanism. I don’t even do it on purpose, I can’t even “turn it off” or anything, it just happens.
Sometimes I wish I had that skill.
It’s lonely and isolating when you can’t figure out how to not do it.
... ... ...
Forgive me for intruding...I suppose both extremes are a form of ADAPTATION: Isolating from the world at large or learning to fit-in...In both instances, it is in an effort to avoid negative consequences imposed by an intolerant society...
Yep, I couldn’t learn to fit in, so instead I learned to hide myself.
... ... ...
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