I am sorry I was so argumentative in my posts

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i wasted decades longer than many folks on WP were alive.

I can think of a few reasons, actually, and they're mostly about safety.

Usually, when a person dies from violence from a spouse, it's a woman dying from man's abuse. A male abusing their female partner is very common, and at least according to the statistics, way more common than the female abusing their male partner. A woman is also usually the physically weaker one, so if a fight breaks out between her and her male partner, she's the likelier one to get hurt. In other words, women are at a bigger risk of being in danger if they make a bad choice when it comes to a partner, so it makes sense for women to consider more carefully who they give a chance to.

Another reason is that women and women only carry the direct, physical risks of pregnancy and childbirth. I don't know how many women consciously think of this when looking for a partner, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk my health and life by carrying the child of a man who I wasn't absolutely sure was worth the sacrifice, as well as capable of being a proper father to our child if I happened to die at the childbirth.

Then there's cultural reasons. Through history, men have had way more sexual freedom than women. Men sleeping around has never really been considered such a big deal as it is for women. Even in this day and age, "whore" and "slut" are common insults used of women, yet it's rare to hear something like that used of men. If a woman has had lots of relationships or flings, she's often looked at differently, and not in a positive light, than a man who has had the same amount. So, since women are likelier to get a stigma from break ups and such than men, it also makes sense that they're more careful of who they interact with when it comes to romantic and/or sexual intentions.

There's also a chance that women are likelier to be satisfied with their lives without a partner than men (this is only a hunch based on how I've seen men and women on this forum behave), so they're likelier to choose being alone than having to compromise on what kind of person to date.



It's kind of like if you went to a very formal party, like a formal wedding, with your everyday clothes. Having properly kept clothes and appearance in general simply is good behavior... I'm surprised no one in your life drilled this in to your head during your years, but what's done is done... or I suppose, in this case, not done. Guess I'm lucky that my mom drilled the importance of looking decent in to my skull when I was a kid... then again, that rule is often stricter for women than men anyway, since looking good and clean is expected even more from women than men (here at least, can't speak for all cultures for sure.)

You can't get back the past, but again, you can raise your chances of success by not doing the same mistakes in the future.



Fix your messy look permanently. If they see you in a well kept state once it's unlikely to do anything, but if you make it a routine to take care of your hygiene and the state of your clothing, then eventually people will consider that better look on you to be the new norm. Don't expect any results immediately. And even if people who've learned to know you with your messy look won't change their impression of you, at least your appearance would no longer drive away so many new people.



Yes, that could be one of the reasons. People with messy appearances are less likely to attract positive attention.

True, and some styles, mostly short hair or being bald, are more socially acceptable on men than women, it seems. I know a fellow aspie woman with short hair who used to live in the USA, and she said she was often mistaken for a lesbian because of her short hair when she was there. Anyway, I think it's mostly just a cultural thing, some kind of "men have to have short hair" and "women have to have long hair" kind of thing.



What exactly does this 20s stuff include? I'm still 26 so I might get something out of that, assuming I haven't done it all yet (probably not.) Do you have some kind of list?



Maybe you should... of course, I don't know how these things work in the USA, but here even people with high education would have a hard time getting employed if they had no previous work experience. Very few are the people who don't work while studying something higher than second degree education (meaning high school or a vocational school, usually during teen years) here, and they're usually the ones with very well off parents who pay for everything. Just not having any summer job experience or the like at the age of 18 was a huge disadvantage for me in the local job market.

It's kind of a double edged sword... on one hand, a job takes away your possibility to do things when you want to do them 'cause you have to be at work, but on the other, a job gets you your own money, which gives you freedom of doing what you want even if you can't do it when you want.

I'm curious though, if you've never really worked aside from that, who's paid your living and education? Were you living off of your mom before becoming a TA or did you take a loan? Or did you have a scholarship? Some kind of government benefits?



It's still there, but not causing trouble for now.



I think the problem might have been both your age and your constant complaining. As in, maybe your age wouldn't have been a problem had you been able to act mature as is expected of people of your age, or maybe your complaining hadn't been such a huge deal had you been younger, for they might have thought that you'd eventually grow out of it.
In any case, complaining all the time is the kind of thing that pushes people away, especially if the complaining has nothing to do with the subject at hand, so try to complain a little less in any groups you take a part in from now on. Or better yet, leave complaining out of those groups entirely, unless your complaints have something to do directly with the group.

I know this isn’t directed to me but here in the US, people, especially men, are generally expected to have a college degree, live away from their parents, have a full time or at least a steady job that provides an income to afford a place to stay, have a good circle of friendships or even huge networks of them, and have at least a long-term partner or even be married.

Could you please reply to my topic on this sub-forum?

Oh I get that, I would really like if I could just you know stop the aging or something but I find it best not to think about that too much since to my knowledge its impossible. Unless they can put human brains in robot bodies or something within my lifetime, but does seem a bit doubtful.

Its funny, now that you put it this way, it seems difficult to answer. Yes, I do have a list of the specific opportunities I regret missing out on. But I am not sure how that would translate into an advice to you. I guess the advice might be "don't run past people who try to make small talk with you". But then again, it would only be applicable if your situation was similar to mine. Because if you already have plenty of people making small talk with you, then I guess one more such person won't make such a big difference. Or if you don't have habbits of ignoring people, then again that won't really apply to you either. But then again, it is always possible that maybe you are similar to me in some way (we are both on the spectrum after all) and perhaps my regrets might help you avoid similar mistakes, who knows. So let me go ahead and give you my list of regrets, and then you let me know whether you can relate to it or what you think in general.

So here are some of the situations where people tried to talk to me when I ignored them:

1) I remember, back when I was 20, I was in the library and I was taking a lot of books for a project required for one of the classes I was taking. As I was walking, these books fell out of my hands. A group of four girls ran up to me, picked up those books and gave them to me. I never get this kind of female attention nowdays. Women seem to avoid me. If there would be anyone who would pick books for me it would be a guy (although that doesn't seem likely either).

2) Again, back when I was 20, I was sitting at one of the public computers and playing chess online. One of the girls said to the other girl "I like it: the semester is over, we got to play chess". I liked the fact that she was referring to me as *we*, so she was viewing me as "one of us". Nobody views me that way any more.

3) Back when I was 22, I was sitting really late in my office doing homework, and was going home when it was past midnight. There was a grocery store that was closing like around 2 am I believe, so I liked to go to that grocery store and buy some food that I would eat right when I get home and then jump to bed. I remember I liked buying powdered mashed potatoes and milk, that I would mix at home. They had 2 or 3 cashiers, but I remember one of them, who was a female, kept trying to talk to me. My answers to her questions were really brief. I was basically wanting to get home as fast as possible because I couldn't wait to eat those mashed potatoes and jump to bed. But, looking back, it seems like I was really stupid. Because that was the EXACT time when I spent HOURS on dating sites, obsessing why young women won't respond to me. And here was the young woman that DID try to talk to me, over and over, and it never occurred to me that this might be relevant. I remember at some point later, she said "I am in love with that guy". One of her fellow cashiers said "whom" and she said "comes in here, never talks". Ever since she said this, I was wondering whether or not she meant me. On the one hand, I was the one in the store so "that guy" would logically refer to me. But on the other hand, people don't talk about others in front of them, so the very fact that I was in that store implies that it "doesn't" refer to me. Yet "comes in here never talks" seems to describe me, unless there is my twin somewhere. I guess I would never know.

4) Right about that time, there was also a waitress in one of the restaurants I was frequenting who was also trying to talk to me, and I was also ignoring her. The reason I ignored her is that I had a habbit of doing homework in the restaurants -- that way I was keeping myself from being disracted by the internet (back then I had flip phone and it doesn't have internet access -- I don't even know if smart phones were even around). In any case, since I came there to do my homework, which I was typically behind on (thanks to all those hours I spent on the dating sites) I wasn't really up to talking to that waitress. But, again, I feel it was really stupid. I should have SAVED all my time I spent on the dating sites and talked to that waitress instead! But it never occurred to me that she was even relevant. In any case, she was sort of play-teasing me that I am "mean" that I never talk, and also she teased me that I always order veggie lasagnia (I did that because I tried to keep kosher so I didn't want to combine meat with milk; now as a Messianic I have a different idea of kosher -- mixing meat and milk is fine, I just have to avoid pork and sea food, but thats not the idea that I had back then). In any case, I am wondering whether the fact that she was play teashing me means that she liked me in some way.

5) When I was 24 I came to student orientation in Michigan (I was admitted for August but the orientation was probably in April or May or something like that) and then after the orientation a group of students decided to go to certain places, and yes they invited me. Then, in a certain restaurant, we were sitting along a really long table with lots of students, and a certain girl was sitting next to me and she started to talk to me. She didn't end up choosing Michigan, she chose Wisconsin instead, so I guess you could say I didn't miss much. But still, you never know. Here is the thing in that conversation that I regret. She told me she was into running. I said I also used to run. She said "used to?!" and was wondering why didn't I run any more. I regret that I didn't just lie to her that I run or at least tell her I will start running. I mean running is good for me anyway -- as evident by the fact that I am doing it right now all by myself without any social reward what so ever. So why couldn't I have said I would consider doing it back then, when this could have actually helped me build a connection? But the point is that I was invited along with everyone and she actually talked to me! When was the last time something like that happened?

6) Then in August there was a different orientation. So we had a meeting regarding learning how to teach, but before they started doing what the meeting was for, they asked us to write one thing about ourselves and then sort of swap the papers around and for others to read what the other person has written. So I wrote that I was in a relationship with a girl I found online. But, the guy that read it out loud, prephrased it by saying that it is something personal. So then I felt awkward and regretted that I wrote it. No, he didn't make fun of me by the way (and nobody else did either) but just that pre-phrase that it is personal was enough to make me feel rather awkward. In any case, to make things worse, that girl that I wrote about broke up with me the next day. No, not over this (I didn't tell her I wrote about her). Rather she broke up with me over the fact that I ghosted her throughout the summer (I didn't like her but didn't have guts to break up with her, yet I still wanted to mention her just to make myself look better I guess?) But, despite the fact that I was the one who ghosted her, when she broke up with me it made me feel really angry. And the fact that she did so exactly the day after I mentioned her in the orientation session in a rather embarassing way made me feel even more sh***y. In any case, I came to Hillel (Jewish club on campus) but the main reason I came was that my mom wanted me to come, so even though I came to Hillel my mind was sort of elsewhere -- mainly ruminating over the embarassment at the orientation session as well as over the girlfriend breaking up with me. But then at Hillel the girls tried to talk to me and they were asking me questions and I was giving them really short answers. I mainly wanted to just be left alone so I could dwell on my thoughts. Then one of them said "how do you feel like about being surrounded by girls". She had no clue that it had nothing to do with shyness. But in any case, I regret the fact that I didn't talk to those girls at Hillel. Who cares about my ex, whom I didn't like anyway. And who cares about the orientation session (probably nobody remembered what I wrote). I should have been talkign to those girls at Hillel!! ! Ironically, 3 years before then, back in Minnesota, I went to Hillel as well (also because my mom told me to) and back then everyone collectively avoided me -- which is what made me focus on the dating sites on the first place, which is where I found that ex of mine. But in Michigan Hillel they were friendlier than that. So after all of my obsessions with Minnesota Hillel where they didn't like me, why couldn't I think for a second about Michigan Hillel where they did? And by the way I only went to Michigan Hillel probably twice or thrice (like that one time, and then a couple of other times several years after that). That was mainly because I am/was Messianic so if they don't believe in Jesus then its not interesting. But I don't get why couldn't I have been going for social purposes -- particularly given the fact that those girls were all trying to talk to me the very first time I came?

7) Probably around the age of 25, I walked past the herbal store, so I walked inside and asked if they have those suppliments. The ladies that worked there said that they don't konw of anything that would help "directly" with social skills, but they know of some suppliments that would help with things like mood or confidence, that might help me indirectly, and they suggested some. Then when I was paying, one of them said "don't worry its all going to work out". Then they said that if I ever feel lonely I can come there talk to them because they are friendly. One of them jokingly added "we don't want to recruit him". In any case, they started to try to have a conversation with me, but I cut it short because I had somewhere to go (probably a bible study or something). That was stupid of me that I didn't see this as an opportunity of talking to young ladies that I wanted so much (again, look at all that time I spent on dating sites!) In any case, I never came back to them to try to talk to them as they suggested. And also, after I bought those supplements, I probably took them two or three times and then stopped. I probably forgot to keep taking them and I have no idea what happened to those bottles. So I have no idea what I was thinking. No, I wasn't trying to get girls attention (as evident by the way I ignored them) I actually intended to be taking those supplements, yet I didn't. And then when they did try to talk to me, it never occurred to me that "hey, even though I wasn't specifically looking for it this particular moment, isn't this the exact thing I was complaining about, why not take this opportunity presented to me".

8 ) Speaking of the bible study (the one I was probably trying to run off to from that herbal foods store) people there were trying to talk to me too, and I ignored them as well. I guess I just assumed that they were Adventists and so they won't date someone who isn't. But now I know that my assumption is wrong. When I was on a Christian dating site, I talked to a couple of Adventist women who at first considered dating me. Well, they both ended up rejecting me -- but the reason for rejection was my social skills as opposed to religion. Its true though that there is a good portion of Adventists that won't date non-adventists, so yes its possible that people at that Bible study wouldn't have dated me anyway, I guess I would never know one way or the other. But even if thats true that they wouldn't have dated me, I don't see why I didn't value a potential friendship with them. I mean I was miserable that I didn't have friends, weren't I. So why didn't I want to be friends with them? And besides, friendship might have helped me make connections with their friends and friends of their friends, etc. Since friends of their friends might be of different denomination, who knows maybe I would have dated some of them. But in any case, what makes it totally stupid is this. So I couldn't talk to the two girls at the health food store because I didn't want to be late to Bible study, yet I didn't talk to people at the Bible study either, so why does it even matter if I was late or not? I guess it mattered because I liked the songs and the sermon. But can't I see that stuff online or something? Now fast forward it to right now. When I go to Bible study nowdays, then yes my main goal is to socialize -- yet nobody approaches me. But back then I came to Bible study *without* having socialization in mind, yet they tried to talk to me. So its like timing mismatch. *If only* people were to try to talk to me *at the time* when I am open to it, it would have been so helpful!

9) Around one or two years after I came to Michigan, probably when I was like 25 or 26, I was again studying really late and then going home late at night. There was Jimmy Jones that was open till 3 am, and I would go home around 2:30 am or something like that, not like when it closes but maybe half an hour before it closes, and I would get a veggie sandwich at Jimmy Jones (again, because back then I was separating meat and milk and the sandwiches always had cheese on them -- right now I don't separate meat and milk but back the I did). There was a few people working there, but one of them was a young lady, who kept trying to talk to me. I even remember one occasion when I was being served by someone other than her (it was a guy) but that guy still called that lady to talk to me, so that sort of makes me wonder if she liked me in some way. And yes she was wondering why I kept ordering the same thing, which for some reason I didn't tell her (I don't konw why not -- thats the other thing I see where I was stupid, what was it I was so secretive about, it just makes no sense!) In any case, several months later, she told me she was going to graduate school at the other state so she sort of said bye to me, but she added that she will remember my order. Again, though, every time she talked to me until then, I was giving her short answers, because I came there looking forward to eating my sandwich and the conversation was keeping me from fully enjoying the sandwich. BUt that was so stupid of me. I mean I spent HOURS on dating sites every day -- which was probably part of the reason I had to study so late on the first place -- so why didn't I have five minutes to talk to the young lady right there in front of me?!

10) When I was 34, in Mississippi, I was in church. I came a bit late so the service already started. But a lady next to me who was in her 20-s tried to talk to me. I sort of gave her a short answer, because I didn't want to talk during the service. But then I thought that maybe it was a mistake. Then, few days later, in the same church, some 70 year old man was talking to me. Again there was a lady in her 20-s that were standing there waiting to talk to me. I don't know if it was the same one or different one: I don't remember names or faces. But I didn't have guts to switch from that man to her so I kept quietly wishing he would stop talking, while outwardly pretending to be interested in conversation with him (asking him follow up questions and so forth). She waited for quite a long time but then she gave up.

11) Again, in Mississippi when I was 34, a couple of ladies in their 20-s offered me a ride. From what I saw in MIssissippi a lot of people offer ride to strangers, which doesn't seem to happen at the other parts of the US. So I guess you might say it wasn't much because when others offered me a ride they would just take me to where I have to go and that is it. But these two ladies seemed eager to talk to me: when they were dropping me off at my place they even said one of their friends were living nearby. But this happened to be a very bad time for me. It was the day when my long-distant girlfriend (who was in Nebraska) was breaking up with me. No, she didn't end up breaking up with me that day -- she ended up breaking up with me a month later. But that day she "tried" to break up and I stopped her from breaking up by arguing with her. So basically, when they were dropping me off at my place, I had to run to my room where there is a computer so that I could start messaging her trying to persuade her not to break up with me. Thats why I wasn't really up to talking to them, and when they said they had a friend living nearby I sort of ignored it. Well, since that girl ended up breaking up with me anyway, I now regret that I didn't talk to those two girls.

12) Again in Mississippi, when I was 36, I was taking a math class and a certain woman who was also a bit older than others, but still in her 20-s, was sitting next to me (I believe she was 27 or 28, or something like that). It was a small class, which had just two rows. I always sit at the front row (cause I am nearsighted and I choose not to wear glasses) other students were sitting on the second row, except for her. She was also sitting in the front row. She didn't sit next to me, but more like either one seat or two seats away from me. During the first day of class she said "I like your hair". But I didn't know whether she said it to me or to some girls. Because you see, I was sitting to the left of her, and some of the girls at the second row were further to the left, so maybe she was looking at one of those girls while it seemed like she was looking at me. So I didn't want to take a risk of responding if it wasn't said to me, so I didn't respond. But I don't think anyone else responded either, so I am wondering if she actually said it to me. In any case, both in that class and in subsequent classes she seemed to have been looking at me. But I didn't want to start talking to her because my officemate from Armenia also took that class, and he didn't seem to be talking to anybody other than me (I guess because being from Armenia he speaks Russian and so he spoke to me in Russian and he felt awkward around Americans). So I didn't want him to think I am weird for talking to that woman, so again I didn't talk to her. But since she kept looking at me every time, probably a month later I gathered a courage and talked to her after class. She invited me to her office where I continued talking to her. We talked for like half an hour or so. She was talking about her interest in mathematical linguistic and seemed quite passionate about the topic. Then at some point she got disracted with her computer. I asked her what was she doing and she said she was closing her account on a dating site. I don't know whether it was supposed to be a hint that she is no longer available cause she found someone (bad thing), or whether it is supposed to be a hint that she likes me and thats why she isn't looking at other people (good thing), or whether it was supposed to be something in between. But in any case I haven't thought of those possibilities at the moment. My immediate reaction was that I am a third wheel since she is doing something else, so I went quiet and said I will let her do this. She said "see you around". I said "see you in class". I feel it was a mistake I said "see you in class" rather than "see you around". You see, the reason I said it this way is because I don't remember faces very well, so I won't actually recognize her outside the class. But she doesn't know it! So to her it might sound like I was telling her I don't want to see her outside the class, which is not the message I want to send. In any case, during subsequent classes she continued looking at me, without talking. I remember one of the future classes when she was looking at me then I look back at her, then she would again look at me, then I would again look back at her, and then after like 15 minutes she gave a sigh and looked away. I am windering whether she was trying to get me to talk and just got frustrated that I wouldn't talk, or what it was. In any case, I decided to talk to her over facebook. In facebook sometimes she responded sometimes she didn't. After that semester was over I transferred to New Mexico, and probably a month or two after I transferred she blocked me.

13) In New Mexico, at 36, when I first came to class, I asked some lady about where the mailrooms are. Instead of simply telling me where they are, she said she wanted to walk me there to show me. But as she was walking with me to those mailing rooms, she was circling around the floor many times. I don't know if she genuinely had trouble finding it or if she was doing it on purpose in order to prolong the time of talking to me. What I do know is that, during that trip, she kept asking questions about me and she was sounding very excited. In that conversation she learned from me that I am good in mathematical analysis and bad in abstract algebra. She said she is the opposite she is good in abstract algebra and bad in mathematical analysis. Then, after she shown me the mail boxes, she said "maybe we should study together". To me it was a surprise so I sort of stumbled and I said "oh okay, yeah (long pause) maybe" so then it sounded like I didn't really want to -- but I did, its just that my mind can't respond so quickly to something new. But since I sounded awkward like that she said that we will talk about it the next class. But then there was a new trouble: I didn't know what desk she was sitting at during the new class. What I should have done is to come there late so that I could see where she sits and then I could sit next to her. But I didn't think about it ahead of time like that. I actually came early and sat at my usual seat. Then when she sat, I felt awkward to switch seats in front of other people. If it was just me and her then yes I would have switched seats but since there were other classmates I didn't have guts to. So I was just staring at her. One guy saw how I kept looking at her and he said "maybe you should sit next to me" so I got up and sat next to that guy. Now, that guy was sitting at the opposite side of the classroom from her. So what happened was that I actually got up and moved even further away from her. In any case, she haven't talked to me after that, and she got a boyfriend soon after that.

So the short version is that you regret missing very specific moments that could have formed in to friendships or relationships? Probably happens to most people, though probably more to us on the spectrum. I feel like I've missed out on many situations like that too, both in my teens and in my twenties. I've also had situations that I feel like I've messed up by oversharing too soon. It's kind of hard sometimes to balance between interacting in a way that assures that yes, I'm interested, but not in a way that makes me seem desperate for contact because that makes people uncomfortable more often than not or just not come off as too weird in general.

Thank you so much for being able to relate. Yes a lot of it is specific moments. Although items 3 and 9 were both repeated opportunities that presented themselves to me over and over throughout months, so I don't know how I was stupid enough to repeatedly ignore them. But I do see your point though.

I guess maybe, my missing those opportunities is more crucial than others missing similar ones, because I am in a situation when nobody "else" talks to me, so its like the only opportunities to connect ever, and I should have paid more attention.

What you said about not being able to balance between asserting interest and not seeming desperate is actually the exact thing I am dealing with. Which is probably one of the subconscious reasons as to why I don't want to be the first one that starts the conversation. Although a lot of examples on the above list (such as 3 and 9) don't really fall into that category: those are like the very few situations where I had actual blind spots as opposed to "pretending not to be desperate".

Could "this" be the reason that those are like the only people that shown any interest in me? Because NT-s can read the body language, so in most of the other situations where I sit quietly in the corner while obsessing in my mind "why don't they approach me" they basically "know" I am obsessing about it (even when I don't say anything) and this pushes them away? While in case of some of those examples I just listed I "honestly" didn't obsess, and thats why they weren't pushed away the way people usually are? Well in this case its just sad that my mind can either obsess, or have a blind spot, but nothing in-between.

And yes, I had a lot of situations where I messed up by oversharing, too. In fact, oversharing seems like my default way of talking, once I do talk that is. In the majority of the examples I listed I didn't really talk, hence I didn't overshare which is probably why I didn't push them away. But if I look at the situations where I do talk (most of which aren't listed here) then yes, it often goes like "I said something too soon, the other person jumped to a conclusion, and I couldn't unsay what I said". The list of the situations I messed up by oversharing is a lot longer than the list of the situations that I messed up by ignoring the opportunities. These two forms of regret feel very different though. But I feel bad about both.

What about yourself, what are some of the situations you had messed up in those ways?

That could be the case with some people. Hard to say without actually observing your body language. It can also be that if you never start conversations with anyone, people just assume that you want to be left alone. Since not approaching people isn't bringing you any results, I'd advice on practicing approaching people and trying not to seem too desperate. As in, no oversharing, no long monologues and, when you're just getting to know someone, absolutely no arguing. Like you've said, you can be quite argumentative, so avoid topics that you have a strong opinion on when talking to strangers.



Well there was this one guy I had a crush on as a teenager. We got along well enough and did stuff together and, looking back, had I just opened my mouth and told him I liked him, it might have gotten somewhere. Who knows, had I confessed, I might have had my first date at 14 instead of 24. Or not, but who knows. Though this can probably be chalked up to normal teenager's nerves.

There were also people I was friends with in junior high. We weren't super close or anything, but had I made an effort to keep in touch with them after graduating, then maybe I'd have a steady circle of friends that I'd see on more or less regular basis instead of mostly having sort of friends that I see in hobby events and circles (or well, saw before covid) simply because I share a hobby with them. Though then again, if those people really wanted to keep in contact with me, then surely at least one of them would've made an effort to do so. I know some of them were fellow aspies, some had slight mental retardation etc. but at least one or two would've been perfectly capable of keeping in contact with me had they wanted to. But since I could've done it too, it would be wrong to be bitter at them about it... would love to contact that one guy from elementary school too if I just got his contact information somehow.

For oversharing, my main mess up is to start to lecture about something that really interests me if the subject at hand even scratches it, or if I see some kind of bridge to the subject... or even if that is the subject, I go in to too much detail and freak people out. Sometimes, with people I've known longer, I simply tell them to ask me to shut up or tell me to change the subject if I get stuck on some specific one too much.

And then there's the classic of me not talking to people I probably should because I'm faceblind. As in, someone starts a conversation with me, yet I can't really keep up because I keep wondering "do I know this person or are they just talking to me to kill time?" And this happens a lot. It's the worst in hobby events since one of my hobbies is cosplay (dressing as a fictional character) and with other people dressing up too, it's hard to recognize them from clothes or such. Fortunately, many people have the same bag with them in different events, so I use those to recognize people. Those and their voices. Of course, in these events someone not recognizing another isn't all that rare due to the costumes, so I too get more of a free pass on my inability to recognize people than normal.

Here is an interesting question. Lets put two sets of situations side by side. In Type A situation (which include examples 3 and 9) I want to be left alone so I give short answers (remember, I only regretted it several years later) yet the people keep trying to talk to me. In Type B situation, I don't want to be left alone: in fact I am obsessing why don't they start conversation with me (although I don't say anything myself, I just keep waiting) yet nobody talks to me.

So is it because people sincerely misunderstand me and think I want to be left alone in Type B situation rather than Type A (for example, in Type A situation I do give a very short answer while in Type B situation I am quiet)? Or could it be that they know perfectly well that I am desperate for attention in Type B situation a lot more than Type A, but that is precisely why in Type B situation they stay away: since they don't like desperation?



I guess I don't even know how one can simply approach a stranger. Actually I just remembered something I read online. So it was probably on quora or something like that, and no it wasn't me who asked the question (I don't know how to post on quora I only read other people's posts). But in any case, in response to some question someone wrote that they won't advice "cold approaching" people.

So this made me think of the word that might shine some light on where we might or might not disagree. Could it be that when I use the word "approach" I mean "cold approach" but when you use the word "approach" you don't mean that? So then could it be that you actually agree with me that cold-approaching is a bad idea, but that is not what you are suggesting I do?



As far as arguing, what makes it hard is that sometimes I am unaware when I come across that way. I mean, yes, there are plenty of situations where I know I am arguing -- and this message board is a good example of such. But then there is another set of situations when I truly don't know it.

Let me give you an example. So my mom's friend drove me and my mom to Alameda beach. As it happens, we live in Alameda county. And I was curious about the city of Alameda that our county was named after. So I was asking my mom's friend to describe to me where Oakland ends and where Alameda begins. Since there was no map, and she was just explaining in words, I couldn't understand it properly. So I was asking further questions. She misinterpretted it as my trying to argue with her so she told me she didn't want to talk to me any more. Now, my mom's friend is probably around 60, so that is not the age group I want to be friends with. But I still felt very hurt by what happened.

Now, the point I am trying to make is this. On the one hand, I know that when I talk about politics or religion or friendship or dating, I am arguing. But, on the other hand, I had no idea that asking about geography of a city is arguing too. Yet it came across that way. More generally, people say that I come across as intense, regardless of whether I mean to or not. And yes a lot of people say I like to argue too. So I am wondering if it is just my communication style that pushes people away.



Sorry to hear that it didn't work out at 14. So were you able to reconnect with that guy after you graduated, even if only as friends? And the age of 24 was not that long ago! How was your first date? Did the relationship last?

As a teenager I also had some crashes. In particular, I remember I had a crash on four girls (two of them back in Russia and two others when I came to the US). I think each of those crashes lasted a year each. It wasn't sexual but more of my romanticizing them. But, unlike you, I weren't really interacting with them much, so I guess it would have been weird if I did say something. But, in any case, back then I didn't really want a girlfriend; I only started to want one when I was 21. So I don't regret this at all.



Sorry to hear that you couldn't find them. I know the feeling: I wish I could reconnect with various people I met in my 20-s. Not so much in the teens though: back in teens I was bullied a lot and I don't miss it at all. Also, unlike you, I haven't participated in any shared activities, so they wouldn't really have any real reason to reach out to me. I guess the reason is my nostalgy, but thats different.

Now that you mentioned keeping connections formed in the teens, this made me think of something. Does keeping contact with friends made in the teens typically help people make more friends in their 20-s? If so, could this be the reason why I had such a difficult time making friends in the 20-s: since I had no network to work through?



Were you going to the school for kids with disabilities, or was it just a coincidence?



Then I guess we meant different things by that word. The way I understood that word was to talk about myself a lot. But you understand it to mean talk about your interests. I guess I do a lot of both, though.



Yes I also have trouble recognizing names and faces. I had a lot of situations where people were thinking I ignored them but I simply didn't recognize them. I also don't know how to address those situations gracefully. For example, when I ask "who are you" or "do you know me", the other person usually thinks I want to be left alone. But that is not the case at all. On the contrary, I want to talk to them, and in order to talk to them I want to know who they are. So I ask. But they misunderstand it.

I don't think there's only one answer here; I'm sure it depends on the situation. Some might not want to talk to you because you come off as too desperate, but some others in the exact same situation might think that you want to be left alone. Or they might not notice you at all. Or they might simply choose someone else over you for one reason or the other when they want to talk to someone, like someone of their own gender, someone closer to their age or someone who seems very social and easy to approach. And sometimes there are, of course, other people who also want others to approach them but don't want to do it themselves.



Had to google the term "cold approach" to understand what you mean. So basically, that's approaching a stranger you don't have common friends or such with? Before covid, I did that pretty regularly. However, it's not like I approached random strangers on the street. I approached strangers in hobby events and such; the fact that we were both in those places meant that we were very likely to have at least some common interests. I think that's the key of successfully approaching strangers. Not saying that it'll always work, but the chances are higher that with approaching a random stranger in the street.

As an example, in 2013, I was sitting in the hallway of a conference building that a hobby event was being held in, and across from me was another woman dressed as a character I recognized, so I knew that that show that the character was from would work as a conversation starter with her. So we started talking about it, and later talked about other stuff. Now, we live far apart from each other, so we don't actually see each other outside of these hobby events both of us would go to even without the other anyway, but we have each other's numbers and keep contact in facebook. So yea, a random encounter with a complete stranger led to a friendship. It can happen.



Very likely. It might be a good idea to ask from some people that have known you for a long time what about your communication style might push people away. Preferably someone who was either born in the USA or came there as a child since with people who've moved in as adults, like your mom, there might be cultural barriers they won't take in to account.



I actually met him at a camp, one that I went to several times, not school. And yes, I found him from facebook and we met up again when I was 20. I got over the crush then though because while he had obviously grown up from a boy to man physically, he still acted the same he did when we first met. He was very immature for a 21 year old, so that kinda killed all the romantic feelings I had for him. I'd say I got a good closure for that crush.
As for the first date, that went okay, but it never went so far that it could be called a relationship. We had a handful of dates and sent messages almost daily between said dates, but I don't know, guess there wasn't any chemistry? We got along, but guess we didn't have enough in common for a relationship to form.



From what I've understood, yes, because people are more likely to go to different places with their friends than alone and the old friends can introduce you to some new friends.



To be exact, it was a school for children who had problems at regular schools. Many were disabled, but there were also those who couldn't keep up with normal class because they skipped school so much and immigrants who couldn't keep up with normal class due to having poor language skills. I myself ended up in that school due to having trouble with keeping up with the class (I got average grades, but the doctors and my parents recommended a special school due to how much longer I had to study at home than an average person my age just to keep up), because my physical problems were acting up and because of bullying. The bullying was mostly name calling, throwing my stuff around and such, but my mom feared that, due to my weak body, my life might be in danger if the bullying suddenly got physical. She didn't believe the teachers would be able to put a stop to it since they hadn't been able to so far.



Ah yes, this is another form of oversharing. I used to have trouble with this one too, but I've gotten it more or less under control, so it's not much of a problem for me anymore.



Try adding something that makes it clear that it's not the other person's fault that you don't recognize them. For example, you could say "I'm sorry, but have we met before? I have trouble remembering faces." At least, when I started to say stuff like this when I didn't recognize someone, they seemed to be less offended since I made it clear that it's my fault, not theirs.

That is something I also been wondering about. Why do people choose others of their own gender? What are the reasons for this?



Yeah, that goes back to what I said earlier about being upset that I missed out the 20-s. If I didn't miss them out then I would be happy to talk to people my age. But since I missed out on 20-s, I now wish I could talk to people in their 20-s or at least early 30-s.




That is something else I was wondering about. So if someone doesn't seem social, what are they afraid of when it comes to approaching that person?

And also, if I go by what you just said, it sounds like they don't want to talk to someone who isn't social. But, if that is the case, how can you then advise me to start talking to them myself? Why force them to do something they don't want to do?



Okay so then in my case that would be either people in math of physics departments (who share my interest in those fields) or people at the bible study group (who share my interests in the bible). So the logical time to do it would be during some activity. In the depratment it might be a coffee break before or after the seminar, in Bible study it would be the time right before the Bible study or right after.

I guess it just boils down to the fact that I feel like they don't like me so I don't feel welcome, basically. If at least some of them were to talk to me first then I would feel more likable, and then maybe I would have been more willing to talk to them myself.



I never did anything like that, but it sounds like fun. Were you actually staging plays, or were you simply dressing in characters yet talked as your usual self?

I am glad you found a friend though. I wished I could do that too. Unfortunately I am not nearly as successful at this.



I remember I was told by the therapist that my voice is too loud and I speak at a high pace. He actually gave me an exercize to purposely speak slower and quieter. I discovered that my mouth muscles get tired real quickly that way, like I can barely talk for half a minute, whereas if I speak fast and loud I can just chatter for hours. So I guess it is partly physical and hard to control.

Other than that, I was told by someone at the Bible study that when I ask questions I phrase it very directly, and when I ask "direct questions" that tend to bother people. The other thing I was told, by someone else at the Bible study, is that I keep talking about antichrist and the mark of the beast, and people get tired that I always talk about the same topic.

As far as people elsewhere (not connected to Bible study) I was often told that I talk about myself a lot and not show interest in the other person. Interestingly enough, that person who said I ask direct questions seem to contradict this, because my questions were pertaining the other person. But if I do the counting I see that most people say I talk about myself too much, and only very few might say I ask direct questions about others.



I am glad you had that closure. Which is kinda ironic to say "I am glad such and such is immature", but I totally would feel that way if I were in your shoes. You got rid of one of your regrets.

I also remember a few situations when I used to really like some women but then when I saw different side of them I realized I didn't like them as much. Although I suspect that in some of those situations they did this on purpose in order for me to get over them, and that kind of thought made me second guess it. But then there were other situations when I saw that no they aren't doing it on purpose and that is just who they really are, and then it was considerably easier.



That makes sense. I started using the dating sites when I was 22, but my first real relationship was when I was 23. Until then I sort of talked to some women on and off. I actually was surprised when that girl I met at 23 started a relationship with me: I was wondering why would anyone choose me, given my Asperger. So, until I met her, I was just talking on and off with girls thinking thats the best I could have. After she left me at 24, things weren't much different, except that now I was sort of expecting a relationship and was disappointed every time I couldn't get one. I only had 3 real relationships my whole life (one was when I was 23-24, the other one was when I was 27-29 and the third one was when I was 33-34). I wish I could find more (preferably something that won't end) but I don't know how.

So what about yourself? Were you able to find someone with whom you could get into a real relationship?



I guess if I think of it this way, then there are only two opportunities that come to mind that I missed:

A. Back in Mississippi, my two officemates, my advisor, and a couple of his colleagues went to lunch together. So my officemates would study in the office, go to lunch together, come back, and again study in the office. However I preferred to study in the caffeteria since it was a buffet so I liked to eat a lot and save money. They were sometimes whondering why don't I study in the office and why don't I go eat lunch together with them. Do you think if I were to actually do that, then this would have increased my chances of interaction with females? Yes, they are all-male company, but maybe I would have built some female connections "through" them?

B. In New Mexico one of my fellow students invited me to a backpacking trip. On that trip I was complaining a lot about people not liking me, and he didn't invite me after that. Do you think if I were more easy going he would have invited me more and I would have met more people?



That is a bit interesting. I haven't heard of such schools before. Both in Russia and in America there are schools for normal kids and schools for disabled kids. In America there is one more option: the schools for normal kids have special ed section, and so disabled kids can enrol in that school and then go to that special ed section. In Russia they didn't have such option, at least not back when I was there (I don't know what it is like now). But in any case, I haven't heard of schools that would lump together disabilities with other problems the way you described. Is this specific to Finland or do you think other countries do that too I just haven't heard of it?



I am sorry you got bullied. I was bullied too a lot, particularly in Russia. Well in America I was bullied too, but in Russia it was a lot worse.

So as far as your medical problems, are those the same that you have now? What age did they start? And what you mentioned that you can die any time, was it true back then as well?



That seems like a good advice, thank you.

By the way, what is it that makes them think I am insinuating its their fault? I was assuming that since there is no logical scenario in which my not recognizing them would be their fualt, they would know I am not insinuating that. But maybe thats something I am missing right here. So maybe if I understand the logical scenario in which I might say it "is" their fault, I would understand better the need to clarify why thats not the case, as well as why they get offended. So what is the logical possibility where it is someone's fault when the other person doesn't recognize them?

I can think of several reasons. Some people simply prefer being friends with the same gender, but I think safety and comfort are big reasons, at least for women. It's safer for women to make friends with other women than men, and if a woman tries to make friends with another woman, the chances that the other woman mistake it as flirting are way lower than with a man. I've read that in some cultures a woman smiling at a man and looking him in the eyes while out on a walk can be considered as an invitation to something sexual. Very weird, but when this is the case, it'd make sense for women to avoid interacting with men so that they won't start insisting that she was flirting with them or something. I've also read some topics in L&D, long ago mind you, and some men brought up situations they considered flirting that I considered basic manners. So yeah, if some woman has encountered lots of men like that, it's no wonder if she wants to stay away from men who someone she knows hasn't assured to be harmless. Of course, it makes making female friends/getting a female partner harder for all men, but no woman (or man) should feel guilty about taking precautions to protect themselves.



I don't think fear has anything to do with it; I think it's just that approaching someone who seems social is easier and they're seen as likelier to be good company. I mean, if you had a choice to go chat up with some elderly lady or a woman your age, which would you pick? The one that seems more appealing to you at the moment, obviously. It's the same with picking the people who seem social over the ones that don't; at the moment, they seem like the more interesting pick.

I'm not saying they don't want to talk to someone who's not social, just that they'd rather talk to a social person when they can pick 'cause they might like them more and might not have to do all the work. But if you do the work, which here means approaching and picking a starting topic to talk about, they might actually prefer to keep talking to you instead of trying to get the attention of a social one.



Yes, this is exactly what I mean!

It could be that they don't, but it could also be that you're imagining it due to having somewhat low self esteem.



Some people stage plays, but most just dress up for fun and sometimes pose for pictures. I'm the later type, though I'd love to take part in those plays/role playing sessions at some point, too. I'd just need to pick a character with a similiar enough personality... or one that doesn't say much.



I have some trouble with voice control too, though I don't get physically strained. Could this be a matter of practice to you, though? Maybe if you practiced, you could learn to speak quietly, or at least quieter, than now without hurting yourself?

Ah yes, being too direct is a no go for many people, especially in religious and political matters. Getting stuck on the same topic is also a no-no when others want to move on from that one. Try to discuss other topics too, preferably ones that someone else has brought up.

Maybe it's both? As in, when you do ask others questions, you go too personal too quick, but mostly just talk about yourself and your interests without giving the other person a chance to talk about themselves and their interests to the level they feel comfortable with.



So far no luck lol. Haven't had a date since February last year, not that I've had chances to meet potential dates anyway 'cause covid.



Both A and B may have been possible chances to create a better circle of friends, but what's done is done so try not to dwell on it too much.



Honestly, no idea. In Finland they're trying to get rid of the special schools and only have special classes in normal schools instead. They say it's for the sage of teaching kids from young age that different people exist and to help the disabled kids to get along with "normal" kids, but personally I think it's done for budget reasons.



Ya, though I've gotten more during the years. The serious ones I've mostly been referring to are something I was born with. While I can technically die at any time, the chances that my condition would worsen rapidly, as in a matter of hours, are very low. It's more like it could start worsening at any second and keep worsening over weeks and months to a point where I was really in danger, but I'd probably notice something was off and go to a doctor before it got too bad.



I think it might be some kind of body language or non-verbal message thing. As in, something in your body language makes them think you blame them. It's not really your fault, but not theirs, either. Just like you have trouble controlling your voice, many NTs and some non-NTs too have trouble with mistakenly reading body language and drawing conclusions from it. And no, they can't simply just stop reading it and focus on words, because they tend to do it unconsciously. It's also possible that if you complain about something to them, they'll think you think they have something to do with it, because if you didn't you'd probably complain to someone who did have something to do with it.

Here's a soft, little Om Nom hug.