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Do we have a definition of "special interest"?

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babybird
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07 Oct 2021, 10:30 am

DeepHour wrote:
babybird wrote:
It's a pity you can't take that a step further and give them to charities that help out children from poor families who can't afford laptops for education purposes.


How many children or poor families would want a twenty year old laptop with Windows 98 and incapable of running most websites properly or at all? I'm not a wealthy person - many of these machines cost £20 or less, one was £1.99.

:wink:


:lol:


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07 Oct 2021, 10:34 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Ettina wrote:
If it's something that causes you frustration and you're doing it to get better at it, that's not a special interest. A special interest is inherently enjoyable and doesn't feel like work to engage with.

I talked to a professional who said that if you experience demands it might not really be a special interest. I guess I want much of myself and you cannot have that and call ot a special interest.
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like "special interest" has an element of "compulsion" in it. You enjoy it----but you can't get away from it even when you don't enjoy it.

Being in the thralls of a "special interest" might make you forget to do routine things like eat your dinner or brush your teeth.

Compulsion?
Isn't that OCD?
Edna3362 wrote:
Hm.

Special interest is basically an obsession someone enjoys.


There's a huge misunderstanding somewhere between the concept of reward systems in everyone's heads.
There's actually two of them, independent of one another -- one that develops habit and focus, and one that is motivation driven and would give pleasure.

Obsession is like an uncontrolled habit and focus. Habit is usually unconscious, focus is more or less controllable -- it can be separated.
Interests is the motivation and pleasure that comes with it. But even motivation and pleasure itself can be separated.


I'm sure there are some who can name names of neuroanatomy and biology. I don't. :lol:

Obsession sounds like O in OCD.

Some say that a special interest is like an addiction. And I am not addicted to dancing. I just gotta do it. That's all.

And where do this thought of 'gotta do it' came from?

Is it out of motivation or habit?
Is it out of reward or punishment?
Is it out of attention -- was it conscious or unconscious?
Is it out of pleasure as a motivation or pleasure as an end or not?

Motivation
Reward? I guess.
Conscious? I chose to learn how to dance.
Pleasure? Hmm...I just wanna be human.

And special interests are not exactly conscious or a choice -- it simply lands and sticks, then happened to brought joy and satisfaction in which usually turns into motivation to some.

But when a special interest no longer sticks... It isn't a choice to lose it either whether or not said special interest is a personal interest.

Depending on the aspie whether it is a part of one's routine or not, but even the most rigid cases would change because of that.
It'll be like a memory from another life. :lol:



:lol: ..Do you get it now? The difference between your case and the nature of special interests?

So you cannot choose a special interest?
I just knew I had to dance because I have a physical body and so on.
But I can honestly say that a lot of my interest where things I wish was never on my mind. I never really chose them and I had no specific feeling of pleasure. Only a feeling of fleeing from real life. Sometimes people study Japanese culture(s). They want to dream of a better culture. It is not always a special interest.



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07 Oct 2021, 10:39 am

DeepHour wrote:
babybird wrote:
It's a pity you can't take that a step further and give them to charities that help out children from poor families who can't afford laptops for education purposes.


How many children or poor families would want a twenty year old laptop with Windows 98 and incapable of running most websites properly or at all? I'm not a wealthy person - many of these machines cost £20 or less, one was £1.99.

:wink:

Sounds like items for a museeum.
Museum of laptops.
Like this https://vintage-laptops.com/en/sample-page/



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07 Oct 2021, 10:48 am

Dandansson wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Ettina wrote:
If it's something that causes you frustration and you're doing it to get better at it, that's not a special interest. A special interest is inherently enjoyable and doesn't feel like work to engage with.

I talked to a professional who said that if you experience demands it might not really be a special interest. I guess I want much of myself and you cannot have that and call ot a special interest.
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like "special interest" has an element of "compulsion" in it. You enjoy it----but you can't get away from it even when you don't enjoy it.

Being in the thralls of a "special interest" might make you forget to do routine things like eat your dinner or brush your teeth.

Compulsion?
Isn't that OCD?
Edna3362 wrote:
Hm.

Special interest is basically an obsession someone enjoys.


There's a huge misunderstanding somewhere between the concept of reward systems in everyone's heads.
There's actually two of them, independent of one another -- one that develops habit and focus, and one that is motivation driven and would give pleasure.

Obsession is like an uncontrolled habit and focus. Habit is usually unconscious, focus is more or less controllable -- it can be separated.
Interests is the motivation and pleasure that comes with it. But even motivation and pleasure itself can be separated.


I'm sure there are some who can name names of neuroanatomy and biology. I don't. :lol:

Obsession sounds like O in OCD.

Some say that a special interest is like an addiction. And I am not addicted to dancing. I just gotta do it. That's all.

And where do this thought of 'gotta do it' came from?

Is it out of motivation or habit?
Is it out of reward or punishment?
Is it out of attention -- was it conscious or unconscious?
Is it out of pleasure as a motivation or pleasure as an end or not?

Motivation
Reward? I guess.
Conscious? I chose to learn how to dance.
Pleasure? Hmm...I just wanna be human.

And special interests are not exactly conscious or a choice -- it simply lands and sticks, then happened to brought joy and satisfaction in which usually turns into motivation to some.

But when a special interest no longer sticks... It isn't a choice to lose it either whether or not said special interest is a personal interest.

Depending on the aspie whether it is a part of one's routine or not, but even the most rigid cases would change because of that.
It'll be like a memory from another life. :lol:



:lol: ..Do you get it now? The difference between your case and the nature of special interests?

So you cannot choose a special interest?
I just knew I had to dance because I have a physical body and so on.
But I can honestly say that a lot of my interest where things I wish was never on my mind. I never really chose them and I had no specific feeling of pleasure. Only a feeling of fleeing from real life. Sometimes people study Japanese culture(s). They want to dream of a better culture. It is not always a special interest.

If special interests were a choice, I'd choose drawing because I like it -- I have eyes and hands and test the limits of my imagination with it for as long as I can recall.
Or god forbid business because I hate it and it's a gateway for leaving whatever socio-economic issues we have at home.

Except... It doesn't work that way. :lol:
Drawing almost never entered my routine as much as I would want it.
And I still keep hating business.


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Ettina
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07 Oct 2021, 11:05 am

Dandansson wrote:
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?


Why would it be a stereotype? Multiple people have told you that part of the definition of a special interest is enjoyment, why is it so hard for you to believe that a special interest is actually enjoyable?



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07 Oct 2021, 11:13 am

Ettina wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?


Why would it be a stereotype? Multiple people have told you that part of the definition of a special interest is enjoyment, why is it so hard for you to believe that a special interest is actually enjoyable?

Only enjoyment without any frustration whatsoever seems like a lie to me.
People avoid talking about this. We just dont want to see reality.
I'm not even sure were are trying to talk about the same thing. We have a communication issue.



Last edited by Dandansson on 07 Oct 2021, 12:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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07 Oct 2021, 11:16 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Ettina wrote:
If it's something that causes you frustration and you're doing it to get better at it, that's not a special interest. A special interest is inherently enjoyable and doesn't feel like work to engage with.

I talked to a professional who said that if you experience demands it might not really be a special interest. I guess I want much of myself and you cannot have that and call ot a special interest.
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like "special interest" has an element of "compulsion" in it. You enjoy it----but you can't get away from it even when you don't enjoy it.

Being in the thralls of a "special interest" might make you forget to do routine things like eat your dinner or brush your teeth.

Compulsion?
Isn't that OCD?
Edna3362 wrote:
Hm.

Special interest is basically an obsession someone enjoys.


There's a huge misunderstanding somewhere between the concept of reward systems in everyone's heads.
There's actually two of them, independent of one another -- one that develops habit and focus, and one that is motivation driven and would give pleasure.

Obsession is like an uncontrolled habit and focus. Habit is usually unconscious, focus is more or less controllable -- it can be separated.
Interests is the motivation and pleasure that comes with it. But even motivation and pleasure itself can be separated.


I'm sure there are some who can name names of neuroanatomy and biology. I don't. :lol:

Obsession sounds like O in OCD.

Some say that a special interest is like an addiction. And I am not addicted to dancing. I just gotta do it. That's all.

And where do this thought of 'gotta do it' came from?

Is it out of motivation or habit?
Is it out of reward or punishment?
Is it out of attention -- was it conscious or unconscious?
Is it out of pleasure as a motivation or pleasure as an end or not?

Motivation
Reward? I guess.
Conscious? I chose to learn how to dance.
Pleasure? Hmm...I just wanna be human.

And special interests are not exactly conscious or a choice -- it simply lands and sticks, then happened to brought joy and satisfaction in which usually turns into motivation to some.

But when a special interest no longer sticks... It isn't a choice to lose it either whether or not said special interest is a personal interest.

Depending on the aspie whether it is a part of one's routine or not, but even the most rigid cases would change because of that.
It'll be like a memory from another life. :lol:



:lol: ..Do you get it now? The difference between your case and the nature of special interests?

So you cannot choose a special interest?
I just knew I had to dance because I have a physical body and so on.
But I can honestly say that a lot of my interest where things I wish was never on my mind. I never really chose them and I had no specific feeling of pleasure. Only a feeling of fleeing from real life. Sometimes people study Japanese culture(s). They want to dream of a better culture. It is not always a special interest.

If special interests were a choice, I'd choose drawing because I like it -- I have eyes and hands and test the limits of my imagination with it for as long as I can recall.
Or god forbid business because I hate it and it's a gateway for leaving whatever socio-economic issues we have at home.

Except... It doesn't work that way. :lol:
Drawing almost never entered my routine as much as I would want it.
And I still keep hating business.

:?:



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07 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm

Dandansson wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?


Why would it be a stereotype? Multiple people have told you that part of the definition of a special interest is enjoyment, why is it so hard for you to believe that a special interest is actually enjoyable?

Only enjoyment without any frustration whatsoever seems like a lie to me.
People avoid talking about this. We just dont want to see reality.
I'm not even sure were are trying to talk about the same thing. We have a communication issue.


So, because it "seems like a lie" you refuse to believe it can exist, and accuse people of "avoiding talking" about a subject just because you don't agree with what they have to say.



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07 Oct 2021, 4:12 pm

Dandansson wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
Why all this talk about joy and pleasure? Is this just a stereotype?


Why would it be a stereotype? Multiple people have told you that part of the definition of a special interest is enjoyment, why is it so hard for you to believe that a special interest is actually enjoyable?

Only enjoyment without any frustration whatsoever seems like a lie to me.
People avoid talking about this. We just dont want to see reality.
I'm not even sure were are trying to talk about the same thing. We have a communication issue.

Frustration only happens when an element of perfectionism enters.

And what are the odds an aspie -- one vulnerable to anxiety, compulsions and rigidity -- is at least of a perfectionist?


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07 Oct 2021, 4:14 pm

People get frustrated by their special interests all the time, but they just don't mention it often on threads because it's usually not a key element of having a "special interest", plus people get frustrated by normal interests and hobbies, too.

Personally, when I'm prompted to talk about my SIs and how they make me feel I talk mainly about the intense enjoyment, obsession and satisfaction they give me as those are the specific reasons they became a "special interest" in the first place, and I don't think to talk about the frustration I can get from them since that's usually very minor compared to the feelings that compel me to partake in the SI.



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08 Oct 2021, 5:09 am

"Special interests are frequently developed by individuals with autism spectrum disorder, expressed as
an intense focus on specific topics. Neurotypical individuals also develop special interests, often in
the form of hobbies."
https://www.coraphysicaltherapy.com/wp- ... DD2012.pdf

So an "NT" at a football practice only sees football as a hobby whereas an "aspie" sees it as something more?
Is this really what you guys beleive? I, personally, do not beleive that "NTs" can't see something they do on their spare times as more than a hobby.

SI doesn't seem like an "aspie" thing at all. Sure, "aspies" might express their interest in an odd way and have issues doing it socially but I don't think it's so much about intensity than about other things.
For many football is a way of life, ie much more than a hobby.
I was listening to a podcast about autism and they said that there was a woman with an interest in apples. It had to be a specific colour for it to be interesting. They tried to use apples when teaching her maths but they used the wrong colour at first. That would be a good example of what could happen. Many "NT" girls have had a boy band as a special interest.
So how do we distinguish between an "NT" and an "aspie" SI?
One thing we have said in this thread is that you don't choose a special interest. An intense interest can't be choosen if it is to be viewed as an SI? The "aspie" at the football practice chose his sport and thus he had it as a lifestyle and not a special interest?

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
People get frustrated by their special interests all the time, but they just don't mention it often on threads because it's usually not a key element of having a "special interest", plus people get frustrated by normal interests and hobbies, too.

Personally, when I'm prompted to talk about my SIs and how they make me feel I talk mainly about the intense enjoyment, obsession and satisfaction they give me as those are the specific reasons they became a "special interest" in the first place, and I don't think to talk about the frustration I can get from them since that's usually very minor compared to the feelings that compel me to partake in the SI.

Is it important for you that your SI is free from demands and that you don't have a particular goal set in mind?
I have heard that if you have demands or a goal set in mind then it will no longer be an SI. This is why I don't have an SI.



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08 Oct 2021, 5:38 am

I think a special interest will be a special interest when the amount of enjoyment you get from it outweighs the frustrations or demands that it entails.

Maybe some examples of my own special interests would help explain it better.

My main special interest at the moment is the Chinese language. It's actually a fairly new special interest compared to other things I have enjoyed (only within the last couple of years). Sure, there are times when this interest has frustrated me, because it's something I want to get better at and I do have goals in mind. But the enjoyment and excitement I get when I notice how much I have improved outweighs any negativity by a large margin. I think about learning the language all the time. I have dreams in Chinese. I've changed all my video games language settings to Chinese. All the TV shows I watch are in Chinese... it's basically a huge obsession that I can't seem to put down.

Also I don't think a special interest has to be something that you can improve at... most of the things I enjoyed during childhood were not hobbies where there was any measurable improvement in something. When I was a kid (pre-Pokémon anyway, as that took over everything lol) The Lion King was my special interest. Everything in my room had to be related to The Lion King. I watched the film so many times I can replay it back in my mind. If I wasn't watching the film I was playing the The Lion King Sega Mega Drive game... over and over and over. Or drawing characters from the film. The only music I would listen to would be the film's soundtrack or the game's soundtrack (while rocking, of course :P ). I would pretend to be Timon all the time. Basically everything revolved around this one thing.

I've had other interests in the past that I thought would be special interests but they were actually things that made me more unhappy than happy - so in the end these did not become special interests. I had the idea of becoming better at drawing for example, but the sadness and frustration I felt when I didn't progress how I wanted to were far too much for me so I had to quit. I've found that anything I've tried to force to be a special interest just won't make me happy, no matter how much I like the idea of the interest itself.

But of course everyone is different... this is just what I have experienced.



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08 Oct 2021, 5:59 am

WeirdMetronome wrote:
My main special interest at the moment is the Chinese language. It's actually a fairly new special interest compared to other things I have enjoyed (only within the last couple of years). Sure, there are times when this interest has frustrated me, because it's something I want to get better at and I do have goals in mind. But the enjoyment and excitement I get when I notice how much I have improved outweighs any negativity by a large margin. I think about learning the language all the time. I have dreams in Chinese. I've changed all my video games language settings to Chinese. All the TV shows I watch are in Chinese... it's basically a huge obsession that I can't seem to put down.

Even if an "NT" wanted to learn a language it would be more than a hobby, right?
I want to learn languages but it takes time and I really never get a chance to speak them. Doesn't that Chinese language become a lifestyle for you? Did you choose it as you needed to speak with Chinese people or did you just happen to feel like you should learn it for no specific reason? If you started to learn it because you saw a need then I don't think it is an SI.
I guess I would never learn a language if I didn't need to.
Everything I learn requires me to be social and I find it difficult. Is this langauge thing something you actually learn on your own? Is that even possible?



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08 Oct 2021, 6:14 am

Dandansson wrote:
WeirdMetronome wrote:
My main special interest at the moment is the Chinese language. It's actually a fairly new special interest compared to other things I have enjoyed (only within the last couple of years). Sure, there are times when this interest has frustrated me, because it's something I want to get better at and I do have goals in mind. But the enjoyment and excitement I get when I notice how much I have improved outweighs any negativity by a large margin. I think about learning the language all the time. I have dreams in Chinese. I've changed all my video games language settings to Chinese. All the TV shows I watch are in Chinese... it's basically a huge obsession that I can't seem to put down.

Even if an "NT" wanted to learn a language it would be more than a hobby, right?
I want to learn languages but it takes time and I really never get a chance to speak them. Doesn't that Chinese language become a lifestyle for you? Did you choose it as you needed to speak with Chinese people or did you just happen to feel like you should learn it for no specific reason? If you started to learn it because you saw a need then I don't think it is an SI.
I guess I would never learn a language if I didn't need to.
Everything I learn requires me to be social and I find it difficult. Is this langauge thing something you actually learn on your own? Is that even possible?


I started learning Chinese because I became really interested in Chinese historical dramas and I wanted to learn to play the guqin which is a Chinese instrument. I don't need to know Chinese to do these things (dramas have subtitles and there are some English resources for learning guqin), but knowing Chinese means I have access to more information. So I guess it became a special interest because it helps me pursue my other special interests in more depth.

I don't need to communicate with anyone in Chinese... and I've tried language exchange but... I have way too much anxiety and I become mute so it's a really bad experience for me to try to communicate with strangers in Chinese. :( I mostly study on my own using other things I enjoy. Playing Pokémon in Chinese for example to help improve my reading, watching dramas and so on... none of these require socialising. I really struggle with social situations - it's basically impossible for me to learn the language in that way.



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08 Oct 2021, 6:30 am

WeirdMetronome wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
WeirdMetronome wrote:
My main special interest at the moment is the Chinese language. It's actually a fairly new special interest compared to other things I have enjoyed (only within the last couple of years). Sure, there are times when this interest has frustrated me, because it's something I want to get better at and I do have goals in mind. But the enjoyment and excitement I get when I notice how much I have improved outweighs any negativity by a large margin. I think about learning the language all the time. I have dreams in Chinese. I've changed all my video games language settings to Chinese. All the TV shows I watch are in Chinese... it's basically a huge obsession that I can't seem to put down.

Even if an "NT" wanted to learn a language it would be more than a hobby, right?
I want to learn languages but it takes time and I really never get a chance to speak them. Doesn't that Chinese language become a lifestyle for you? Did you choose it as you needed to speak with Chinese people or did you just happen to feel like you should learn it for no specific reason? If you started to learn it because you saw a need then I don't think it is an SI.
I guess I would never learn a language if I didn't need to.
Everything I learn requires me to be social and I find it difficult. Is this langauge thing something you actually learn on your own? Is that even possible?


I started learning Chinese because I became really interested in Chinese historical dramas and I wanted to learn to play the guqin which is a Chinese instrument. I don't need to know Chinese to do these things (dramas have subtitles and there are some English resources for learning guqin), but knowing Chinese means I have access to more information. So I guess it became a special interest because it helps me pursue my other special interests in more depth.

I don't need to communicate with anyone in Chinese... and I've tried language exchange but... I have way too much anxiety and I become mute so it's a really bad experience for me to try to communicate with strangers in Chinese. :( I mostly study on my own using other things I enjoy. Playing Pokémon in Chinese for example to help improve my reading, watching dramas and so on... none of these require socialising. I really struggle with social situations - it's basically impossible for me to learn the language in that way.

It is good that you can study on your own. I can't.



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08 Oct 2021, 12:34 pm

Dandansson wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
People get frustrated by their special interests all the time, but they just don't mention it often on threads because it's usually not a key element of having a "special interest", plus people get frustrated by normal interests and hobbies, too.

Personally, when I'm prompted to talk about my SIs and how they make me feel I talk mainly about the intense enjoyment, obsession and satisfaction they give me as those are the specific reasons they became a "special interest" in the first place, and I don't think to talk about the frustration I can get from them since that's usually very minor compared to the feelings that compel me to partake in the SI.

Is it important for you that your SI is free from demands and that you don't have a particular goal set in mind?
I have heard that if you have demands or a goal set in mind then it will no longer be an SI. This is why I don't have an SI.

I often have goals set in mind for my SIs and it's actually one of the key parts of my SIs. I am a huge "perfectionist" when it comes to them and like setting things to accomplish. I have never heard before that you can't set goals regarding an SI and it seems to me that people often do just that.