Difference between AS and HFA

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id like clarification for NVLDs and AS/autism

I personally think that HFA supersedes AS.
I do not think it is severity, but rather traits.
HFA does include classical Kanner's like behaviour but does not require an intellectual retardation. The anatomy may be different. AS are definitively "geeks," but HFA does not require that. AS people are little professors, other kinds of HFA aren't.

i think there prolly the same

I personally think they are exactly the same thing. Though I won't claim to be certain until the genetics of the matter is much better understood.

The [objective] article thingy I posted said that AS is "HFA"; whilst those who're classically autistic (speech impairment is the biggest issue; everything else is usually more severe too) are labeled with autistic disorder.

HFA shouldn't be applied to classical autism -- those with impairments in speech and other areas of cognitive development (which is 70 percent of those with autistic disorder), as it's seen as Asperger's disorder by the majority of professionals.

People here who say they're "HFA" compared to AS because of their speech impairment are classically autistic, though they're most likely "good" for an autistic individual (like how I am).

I like how it is now: autistic disorder; Asperger's disorder, CDD, Retts syndrome etcetera

Here is Dr.Attwood's paper on comparing the two
http://www.sacramentoasis.com/docs/8-22-03/as_&_hfa.pdf

Read that paper; if we're talking of a purely clinical basis, he is in error as he is right: Asperger's is "HFA" -- "mild" autism, whilst the "HFA" that people see themselves as (verbal impairment for example) have autistic disorder; they'd most likely be comparable to someone with "bad" AS/HFA/"mild" autism in the severity of their social retardation, but their verbal skills will be markedly more severe compared to "bad" AS.

I’m going to talk to him about this specifically when I see him.

My dd(dear daughter) was dx with autism at 27 months. She met all the DSM-IV criteria exept, i thought, hand-flapping. To me, that was a normal way for a child to express excitement, lol. The psych disagreed, because my normal wasnt, of course. She was severely autistic in the fact that she had no language, no reciprocity in any area, did not know her name, my face(my voice she knew), and when i realized a problem was there, she was headbanging.

Her iq has made it to 70 now, at the age of twelve. But, three years ago, the teachers were always trying to relabel her as Aspergers. It was due to the fact that she had acquired language, and her stims are mostly verbal now. But, they have no idea how much sensory integration work i did with that child. Or how hard it was to get to language. I was very angry, because she meets the diagnostic criteria for autism, and Aspergers will not give her the support she needs in school(which is insane!). She grew up, but does that mean she grew out of Autism?????

I've been looking at myself as an HFA or AS personality, and one psych asked "well, how do you think you grew out of it?" I told him i hadnt grown out of anything, but because i was labled a drunk, i had no choice but to develp coping skills that would make me not a drunk. If i began drinking because of my social inabilities, then stopping drinking would require learning to cope. And i did. Just cause i look normal, doesnt mean i am. I've never met a grown person on any part of the spectrum that i thought looked different, although children often share the slack jawed "o" expression.

The DSM-IV is being revamped(and may be completed unknownst to me), and i am afraid they will only confuse things more. Without more research, and without research that isnt constricted by the old ideas that really may not hold true, i am not sure they will be able to break it down enough....i'd rather they just give one label, that immediately gives you support services in the areas of social skills. No one addresses social skills in school for my daughter....they will this year though, lol(with an evil grin...looking forward to that fight).

Labels always confuse things, but they are necessary for getting the world to allow people concessions for things they have a hard time with. A shame really, that we cant just see when someone needs a little help and give it.


tyger

tygereyes,

My psychic said that autism within an individual doesn't get any worst or better; the surrounding environment is what affects our functioning. I never "spoke" for ages and when I did I used funky and odd speech; speech therapy got me talking "normal". My "verbal" impairment is no different now compared to how I was little, it just took my mother and teachers to beat reading/writing/speaking into my head; I still don't understand this writing thing, it's just one big puzzle of characters that I shape and form into a picture that I have in my mind and I'd like you to see.... I'm assuming it was "hard" for your daughter to learn to improve her verbal skills?

I've got an IQ of "stupidly" high; I still ain't Asperger 'cause I meet the criteria within the DSM-IV (I meet all of them I believe...).

Parts of our brains grow and develop "normally"; others stay the same or learn really really slowly.

I say if anyone asks that I have HFA, as it's easier for ppl to understand. But there again, it's hard for them to comprehend as I'm always drunk when I talk to ppl, and I am easily sociable then. If they saw me in the morning, however, on any day, they'd know something was up!

I see HFA as a more severe Aspergers. I don't have the obsessive hobbies or fantastic knowledge about things, but I have the behaviour of an autistic. I have sensory issues coming out of my ears, and I have a lot of repetitive behaviours which I can't explain or understand myself. I stare into space for like, 2 hours a day and not notice anything around me. (one time I sat staring at my partner's eyebrow, stroking it for 15 minutes until he stopped me doing it) I hardly ever talk to ppl somewhat unfamiliar (it happens with ppl I do know, but not too well), and if I do have to, it usually comes out unstructured and slurry. I fit a lot of the autistic criteria, apart from the speech delay. But I have doubts about Aspergers because of the above. Which is why I think this way.

was it "hard" for my dd to learn to talk?


Having took an online test before meeting with psych, and dd meeting all the criteria but one, i did not wait for an official dx.

Annie Sullivan(helen kellers teacher) was one of my heros growing up, so i started with her techniques of letting my daughter feel sounds coming out of my chest, up my throat, out my mouth. I would put her hand to my lips to let her feel enunciation. I then learned sign language, and used her favorite activity, swinging, to try and teach her. She learned many signs before that first word ever came out six months later. Six months of swinging daily for hours, signing, letting her feel the words and making her hands sign, and we got the word "more". I picked it, because if she learned it the automatic reward of getting "more" would reinforce the importance of the word.

Her next word was "no", lol......it came in over the next six months. Another word that is personally rewarding and impowering. And she used it alot!lol

At the age of four, she was using one word sentences to get things she wanted, when a miracle happened. She came to the kitchen one day, and i asked what she needed with my back to her(this is how she liked hugs then too), and she said....
"I need a fork" and walked off, not knowing she had stunned her mother.

At that point i recognized that anxiety was part of her not speaking. I was not looking at her when she said that!! !! So i used that too.....i would talk to her not looking at her. But it was age 6 before she used more than 2 word sentences.

I have to say, that she still processses her conversation obviously, ie, i can almost see her trying to pull the words out of the computer and order them. The more stress, the less talk. But, my goal was for her to be able to tell people what she liked, and didnt like, and we are waaaaayyyyyyyyy past that.

A couple more things i did to help her with words. She loved letters as a child, so i finally figured out that if i pulled up closed captioning on tv, she could catch all the words through reading. I'd say that, along with not caring how many times she rewound the vcr to get something, was a great help, after i helped her know how to move sound.

Yes, it was hard....sometimes i would think it wasnt going to work.....but i never gave up believing that she would talk. I tried not to make it hard on her, using her favorite things(swinging, baths, jumping)as times to teach.

Bath time was a great time to teach her......she would request up to five baths a day, because of the sound change(obvious to me, anyway)....the pool was great too. Always teaching words with sign until age six. I used picture cards too, because of her love for abc's .

I modified ABA and Greenspan to come up with a child-directed positive reinforcement approach that also included modeling....ie i would say what she needed to say(and still do that, as it is hard to keep up with all the social stuff), and asking her to repeat it.

As for your IQ.....hers is 70, but not representative of her real iq, because she almost passed the 6th grad CRCT.....Your IQ is also subject to being lower if there is no one making sure you understand the question first, and that you have to pull the information from your brain, not a book.....hard thing sometimes.

Know that you are more than a test score, more than a label, and more than doctors would ever understand!! !! !


tyger

Tyger,
You are a remarkable woman and mother. Reading about your inventive and ingenious ways of teaching your daughter to speak and grow truly inspired me.
CC

That's what it really is if you see HFA as someone who has autistic disorder but is pretty "good" for someone who's classically autistic. My psychic said that those who're high functioning who meet the criteria for autistic disorder are similar to those who have "severe" Asperger's (who meet the criteria for AS).

You can substitute the speech delay for weird and/or odd speech (for your age); it's there in the DSM-IV. I went from not talking to using weird speech.

(I don't talk to people I don't know -- I'm really working on it though, but it's hard. Well, I can now say I do "talk" to people I don't know as I now know what's wrong with me and I'm pushing the envelope.)

tygereyes,

Cool story.

Ha, the first time my mother heard me utter words coherently was when I was at the doctor's office getting my chin stitched up (I was four); sometimes "extreme" anxiety can get an autistic individual to open up. Normal levels of anxiety will make me talk less to my mother now (as you noted that your daughter did), when I'm completely "calm" I'll talk to her quite fluently. My mother and teacher did a heap of work with me over the holidays; my mother continued to do a massive amount of "therapy" with me. No one knew I was autistic, after they found out I had an above average IQ (grade 1), they thought I was stubborn and didn't want to learn (which is true to some extent...). I process my verbal conversation now too ("long pause"); I need to put the words together and to formulate them how I'd like you to hear them (so I’m not misinterpreted, I usually am though...).

My mother thought that...I don't really know what she thought, she just said that she had a terrible time trying to get me to tell it and read/write. I did well in primary school (1-7), because the social environment wasn't overwhelming for me -- post-puberty I went downhill quickly because everyone started behaving differently.

I've had an IQ all over the place: "0" in high school due to the environment (I couldn't sign my name), 160 (x2) in grade 5 and the mentioned above average in grade 1.

They're nice words you said there. Thanks.

To Cosmiccat:

If I could work the smiley icons i'c be blushing:0). Thank you for your kindness.

You should know, i just took the newer Asperger test, because a few years ago i started seeing me in my daughter. She had to age up, because i didnt remember me at two, lol. I explored autism once in relationship to myself, but the data said Autistic people dont talk....and i ruled myself out.

Anyway, i scored 170 out of 200 to be Aspergers, 45 out of 200 to be NT. I thought i was walking on faith through her young years, but maybe it was faith and intuition.

I'm thankful either way:0).

tyger

the first time my mother heard me utter words coherently was when I was at the doctor's office getting my chin stitched up (I was four); sometimes "extreme" anxiety can get an autistic individual to open up. Normal levels of anxiety will make me talk less to my mother now (as you noted that your daughter did), when I'm completely "calm" I'll talk to her quite fluently. My mother and teacher did a heap of work with me over the holidays; my mother continued to do a massive amount of "therapy" with me. No one knew I was autistic, after they found out I had an above average IQ (grade 1), they thought I was stubborn and didn't want to learn (which is true to some extent...). I process my verbal conversation now too ("long pause"); I need to put the words together and to formulate them how I'd like you to hear them (so I’m not misinterpreted, I usually am though...).

My mother thought that...I don't really know what she thought, she just said that she had a terrible time trying to get me to tell it and read/write. I did well in primary school (1-7), because the social environment wasn't overwhelming for me -- post-puberty I went downhill quickly because everyone started behaving differently.

I've had an IQ all over the place: "0" in high school due to the environment (I couldn't sign my name), 160 (x2) in grade 5 and the mentioned above average in grade 1.

They're nice words you said there. Thanks


I left that so you could remember your post without a lot of trouble going back and forth.

You are a remarkable young man. You do not seem to be having a lot of trouble saying what people need to hear about stress/anxiety! If adults understood the affect of anxiety over not being able to get the words together and out the mouth, their kids would not have such a hard time speaking up......and i daresay that is true for NT kids as well.

Me and my child are similar in many ways. Our visual acuity is excellent(well, mine was til i hit 40....one thing that is the same as NT"S, lol).
Our hearing is heightened. We love words...i read the dictionary in the bathroom, where dad kept it, and she sits on her bed reading them. That may be why she did so well to my techniques. She loved words. They would be our obsession.

We love beautiful.....and find it in everything. We hate negative, and will fight it, change it, or leave. She is an artist, but i did not get that skill. my brother, with aspergers, did.

And in my brother, things are different. He prefers dark....dreary....his art is awesome, but dark. He did not like school, and i loved learning the words. He can play many instruments, i can only sing and dance, but do both very well. We all love to laugh though.

Boys are different. In my daughters class, there was a boy who was just like her in so many ways.....they could play word games with echolalia, because they like a lot of the same things. But, verbally he was two years behind her in her years. NT boys usually develop verbal skills later than girls, and throughout their school years, will not do as well in word classes like english and spelling as NT girls.

So it is not surprising that boys develop later. I hope parents understand that you have to work longer and not give up on the boys, and you will have to be inventive.

If a person does not develop language in early childhood, their muscles meant for speech will decline, so you have to start with the muscles. I used straws, sippy cups, bottles and balloons to help her strengthen her muscles in her jaws. I considered it Physical therapy for the mouth, lol.

My dd's lucky i was a geek interested in the mind and body connection.....i did know things that other parents wouldnt because of that obsession.

I want you to try and make people understand that if you are under less stress, they will get to hear your lovely voice more:0). I keep low light, make others in the house respect her hearing issues, and try to make life easy. We dont do extra curricular through the school year....she needs the processing time at night, not more to process.

How old are you? What do you do now? You've heightened my curiosity:0).

keep voicing your opinions!! !! they are valid!! !! !

tyger

tygereyes

Thanks, I "feel" that I have difficulty in getting my point across because it is quite hard for me to put my thoughts to words; obviously I do an adequate job. Something interesting that you might like: recently, my mother made a photo album with all of my personal photos in it, and you can easily see how anxiety and stress caused by the environment affected my functioning. A photo of me on my first day of school is clearly showing a boy who is overwhelmed; I'm looking down and away with an expression on my face that I'm not "there". A few years later when I settled in primary school (I repeated grade 2 due to writing/reading difficulty), I was looking at the camera and smiling; and doing well all throughout my primary years even though I never studied or did homework; I had friends, but they were the ones who approached me (which made it a hell of a lot easier to interact as they did all of the talking).

As soon as high school started, I began to look away from the camera, and if I looked at it I never smiled (i.e., that “empty” look), my main “friend” was someone who went to primary with me, so I was lucky that I grew up and learnt to interact with him; I’ve always been ok at sport so that helped. However, the change in the social environment; male dominance hierarchy type thingy, females approaching me, the inevitable bullying due to behaving “differently” and my attempt at fitting “in” led to social and academic disaster due to me being overwhelmed -- I missed every other day from grade 10 onwards, and I left during grade 11 as I couldn’t handle it (I was pretty close to the breaking point). I was seen as the big, albino and dumb kid who rarely spoke to most of the students.

I attempted college but that sucked too due to feeling the same anxiety that I felt in high; my mind drifted here and there, mapping things within my mind that really should be left alone; extratextual factors led to a nervous breakdown (the psychotic type); saw a whole heap of professionals during my holiday at the mental hostel; diagnosed with OCD and panic disorder there -- was agoraphobic for a few years leading up to said breakdown. I successfully killed my OCD with CBT/medication, was then wondering why I still felt terrible around people when I wasn't worried about germs and other OCD stuff; heard of autism, read the DSM-IV criteria, met every single one (yup...), told the psychic I was seeing for my OCD treatment -- he thought I had Asperger’s (he neglected to tell me) but was sure I didn’t have autistic disorder, we went through it twice -- him and me; him, my mother and I. It was a “light bulb” moment for everyone (and I do mean everyone I know) when he diagnosed me. Hey, at least people stop harassing me now, ‘Daniel, why aren’t you married, why don’t you work?’ Now it’s all, ‘Poor, poor Daniel!’ That’s pretty much my past. I’m studying now (since I know why I felt the way I did when I was around people), hopefully I’ll be able to work with people in the future (this is my biggest fear).

26 now, 25 when I was diagnosed.

I’m never going to do homework, ever (home time is my time, and it always has been).

Speech therapy and my mother’s efforts with helping me read and write made me come this far without being picked up -- people just thought I was dumb, lazy and stuff.

O yeah, I can speak to people one on one and talk their ears off with my overly formal speech; this is probably why most of the professionals I saw never thought of autism; I never made eye contact -- they never asked any questions that were related to autism in anyway.

O yeah, again, when I didn't talk when I was little everyone just told my mother that boys are like that. :/