Who else is borderline AS/NT?

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I don't believe in the description of NT. It feels far too Us/them for me. I have Asperger's but at the same time I have som very "NT" characteristics.

When I was a child it was obvious that I was somehow "different", as I grew older I
acquired the necessary self-help skills. I can almost "pass" for NT unless I'm under certain
social pressures.

Can you be diagnosed with borderline AS?

I've recently looked a fair bit at AS, since I came across the article on Wikipedia and saw just how much seemed to apply to me. Looking back over my life (~25 years) I can see a large number of things I didn't understand at the time, that are readily explained by AS. However, I'm not sure that I fully qualify for an AS diagnosis - mostly dependent on the definition of "clinically significant".

I took the online AQ test recently and scored 25; I took the test here* and got 126/200 AS, 94/200 NT, "You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits".

I just don't know what to think - I can see others here on the forums that have a far greater trouble than I in social situations (I'm mostly OK reading, but don't seem to naturally use the right body language to let others know how I feel). I'm also fine with sarcasm, metaphors, etc. I certainly don't want to give known-NTs the impression that I'm as bad off as full-ASs.

On the other hand, there are so many "AS traits" that match up quite closely - non-expression of feelings to others through body language, narrow interests in computer science, difficulty with interruption of routine, primarily logical thought patterns, sub-par motor skills, slightly-too-formal speech, difficulty showing empathy, obliviousness to things other than what I'm actively doing at the time, I have to specifically concentrate in order to remember to engage in "hello"s and chit-chat, uncomfortability at social events (tiredness soon following).

If I were to have AS, it would explain a lot of otherwise "odd occurrences" in my life. However, I know I don't have "full" AS (if there is such a thing), since I can interact with clearly-NT people without seeming more than somewhat eccentric. (I'm also improving at this as I gain understanding in the areas I'm lacking; eg. making a point of remembering to say "hello"

What to do?

Have a look in the DSM-IV-TR:

You either meet the criteria for AS or you don't. You either meet the criteria for autistic disorder or you don't. You either meet the criteria for schizophrenia or you don’t.

http://www.ourspecialkids.org/criteria.html

I have trouble directly applying the DSM requirements, mostly due to lack of understanding in what they're specifically after. It's one of the reasons I've chosen to post here.

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction Some (possibly not "marked"?)
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level As a child, yes, though I believe that my adult relationships are "appropriate"
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g.,by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people) No
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity Yes (by my understanding of the question...)


B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus Yes
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals Yes
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g.,hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements) Sometimes
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects No

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
Depends on the requirements for "clinically significant impairment"

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years).
No

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.
No

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia.
Not AFAICT

Do you dispute the existence of "borderline" cases, or did you mean something else by "either you have AS or you don't"?

What does that mean? Standard deviations have to do with a set of data that has been standardized (i.e. there is an established mean and standard deviation value). For instance, for the WISC-III, the mean is 100 and the standard deviation is 15. There is no one test for Asperger's that could have been standardized (or even any actual diagnostic tests at all really).

Even with NLD, for which there are actual diagnostic tests, it wouldn't work to say that. For instance, while I could say that on the Rey Osterrieth Complex Figure test, my performance was two standard deviations below the mean, there's no similar statement I could make about NLD in general. It wouldn't make sense to say, "I fall one standard deviation below the cutoff for NLD." Who told you this? Are you sure that's what they said? Because it doesn't make any sense

Well, psychiatrists/clinical psychologists are going to refer to the DSM-IV-TR when they diagnose you; if you don't meet the requirements set in their diagnostic tool you won’t be diagnosed with AS [or any mental disorder for that matter]. They use anecdotal evidence that you supply to them, and utilize their own observations of your behavior and apply them to the diagnostic manual. You either have AS (as the professionals define it) or you don't.

Clinically significant is there for the professional to determine, i.e., I have abnormal functioning (autistic disorder) in social interaction in that I didn't interact, I still don't interact socially and my psychiatrist noted this.

I thought that may be the case, thankyou.

Is it worthwhile trying to get a diagnosis (in your opinion)? I know I have certain problems socializing, and learning more about AS/HFA has helped me to see and understand them better irrespective of any diagnosis; the only thing it would do for me (that I can see) is give me something concrete I can use to explain things to other people.

I am recently diagnosed with AS. I act very NT and have practiced or pretended for years. I'm good at acting normal, but feeling completely different inside, it is mentally exhausting. My doc. put me on a mood stabilizer today, to see if it helps with some of my hangups. For years I've been trying to find the right drug to make me feel what other people do. I was somewhat relieved to get diagnosed, but am now sad that my family who have been trying to get me to reciprocate in relationships won't ever get what they need.

Interesting question

If you were being conservative and objective with how you applied yourself to the DSM criteria, it's quire possible that you have AS ("HFA"); there's quite a big difference between AS and autistic disorder (Kanner's autism), those with AS can function and meet a lot of the milestones that are considered "normal" without intervention (this is most likely why there's a massive influx of "autism" diagnoses that the media wail on about -- people like an answer for why they always felt different to everyone else when they were growing up).

It’s like everything, if it affects your life to an extent that you find it hard to function with social interaction, academia and/or work due to problems that you face, then yes; you could say that it’s most likely wise to seek a professional opinion and evaluation as just knowledge that there’s something “wrong” with you can help you overcome the difficulties that you face.

They know that some family members of those with an autism spectrum disorder exhibit traits that are similar to those with said disorder, but they don't affect them enough to cause a marked impairment in functioning and they don't meet the requirements of a "disorder" as it's listed.

The magical line is the one where it's a "disorder" or not.

I always try to be objective in all fields... I utterly hate imprecision or lacking objectivity, to the point that my speech and writings are littered with extraneous words just to slightly clarify meanings and intentions. That said, I recognise that self-diagnosis is incredibly far from the ideal, especially with short Agree-Disagree tests (how do I know what others think of my actions? I have issues with people making diagnoses in fields they're not familiar with, trying to do the same is quite embarrassing for me.).

I'm leaning towards the "no diagnosis" side - as I mentioned I manage fine in most situations. I would like "an answer", but ultimately given the scope of issues I have and others I've seen have (on WP and elsewhere) I'm not sure that the DSM criteria of AS is anything more than an arbitrary line in the sand. I guess I just have to decide if I need to update my profile here to say "AS" or not.

It's amazing suddenly remembering little parts of my life that weren't quite right, and seeing that they all fit together in the same pattern. I wish I'd understood even just five years ago what I do now about myself. The embarrassment I could have saved if I'd just paid more attention to how other people behaved!

Hi,

I can relate to this.

I took the AQ test and scored 32 (the lowest score indicating that I might have AS) so that would put me on the borderline.

As I am today, I can pass for "normal" a lot of the time, although when stressed etc my mask will slip.

However when I was younger, the other children at school used to ask me why I was "different" and I could not answer them - although I agreed that I was different to them, I had no idea why.

I could never relate to my so-called peer group at all. I was bullied by the girls as well as the boys and used to always be late for class just to avoid the situation of having to be in the same room as them before the teacher got there. Being late is a fault I still have (at meetings where they say "Coffee 10:00, Commence 10:30" I always aim to get there for 10:29 but never quite make it.) So I still find walking into a room full of people I don't know well very very difficult - do I try & butt in & talk to someone or just stand there looking awkward?

I have now learned a lot of the stuff I initially didn't understand - but I learned it many years later than most people. I know that others will not want to talk about the things I am most interested in, I know not to stim in public, I know when I am doing something "odd", even if I am unable to stop myself still going ahead and doing it.

The more I read the posts on here, the more I realise I probably DO have AS - there are so many other people on here who seem to be able to successfully hide their AS a lot of the time. I used to think that if I really was AS I wouldn't be able to have so much insight into my own behaviour as I do.

The other day a colleague was telling me about how a new guy in the office was "a bit disabled " (i.e. he had AS) & had probably got the job so they could tick a box - I quite liked the guy and hadn't thought he was particularly odd, but apparently most people did! So I said "Maybe he didn't declare it or doesn't even know he has it - a lot of people don't" thinking "how come you haven't found out about me yet?"

So I must be able to hide it now, even if I couldn't as a child. I am known to have a "short fuse" though, and to be easily wound up (I had a meltdown in a meeting the other week - however long I last in a job, it always happens eventually.)

And from time to time I do strange stuff that I get pulled up over. And people complain I don't talk to them much any more. (This is because I am trying to "tune out" all the noise & movement around me.)

Sorry for rambling - as you can tell I am still trying to work out if I do have AS or not.

From what I've said, what do you think?

I'm borderline.

I think I'm generally worse than borderline but still quite high functioning in most areas.

I definitely have quite a few autistic spectrum symptoms, but I might still be more of an ADDer than an aspie....(possibly pdd-nos)

As I have mentioned before, there are symptoms on both sides of my family, but i really don't know where I would fit in. i am sorta dim compared to alot of aspies (and my other family members), and don't really have super rigid routines. I am also not a picky eater..stuff like that...

I do have an awful time with eye contact...social interractions exhaust me...I stim, I walk on the balls of my feet (toe walk)...umm..I have obsessions..if they count as obsessions..that my life sorta revolves around..Very right brained/left handed..have possible discalculea...have to hesitate when in a party of 3 and asked how many at a resturaunt, but am eerily good at dominoes and can beat just about anyone...have difficulty telling left from right...executive dysfunctions...all kindsa fun stuff like that....Have above average IQ..did horribly in school and did not make it very far..it took me several times longer than the average person to complete assignments due to extreme distractability and disorganisation......yada yada yada yada

But I don't rule out the possibility that I am not an aspie..and maybe there are different causes for the way that I am...like possible long trm effects of PTSD..or head trauma.

Same here! Or maybe I'm just fooling myself LOL