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temp1234
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23 Oct 2022, 6:46 am

Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.
Yes, that's my understanding, too. No one's always fully themselves. All people act in some way to earn popularity/look attractive/appeal to others/fit in the group. Non-autistic people are intuitively aware of how to "mask". They have very good skills of "masking", whereas autistic people are impaired in "masking". That's why I was always wondering why there are many people here on WP who can simply mask and unmask as they wish. I thought it was a non-autistic trait.



Mountain Goat
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23 Oct 2022, 9:44 am

jimmy m wrote:
It sounds like you are on the right track. Keep growing. Soon you will be the smartest one in the room.


Me or the origional poster?



Mountain Goat
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23 Oct 2022, 10:01 am

temp1234 wrote:
Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.
Yes, that's my understanding, too. No one's always fully themselves. All people act in some way to earn popularity/look attractive/appeal to others/fit in the group. Non-autistic people are intuitively aware of how to "mask". They have very good skills of "masking", whereas autistic people are impaired in "masking". That's why I was always wondering why there are many people here on WP who can simply mask and unmask as they wish. I thought it was a non-autistic trait.


Not sure as most people don't need to mask. They are happy to be whoever the crowd of them decides they are and they don't force themselves but tend to flow with it. I am different. For me, being a "Team player" means I specialize so I can do my own thing for the benefit of the team, but I avoid doing things that make me part of the team if that makes sense? What I mean is, that if I try and flow with the team I get chucked out of the team as naturally I seem to be operating differently so I soon get bullied or thrown out. (I am the one who tends to get pulled aside by a manager tell me off for actually sticking to te rules when no one else does, and I get told I need to breakthe rules in order to be a "Team player"... Yet if I do what I am told and break rules, it gets me into trouble where everyone else does the same thing and it is ok for them to do it? Never quite worked that one out because when I have asked for these situations to be clarified no one can and they walk off shaking their head!)

But what I am saying is, the others do not pretend to be someone they are not in order to fit in as they already do fit in.

Someone on the spectrum stands out OR they mask to hide that they stand out. The ones that hide are the ones who avoid being diagnosed. The ones who don't hide behind an act are the ones who get diagnosed early as a child or a young adult.

Those who are not on the spectrum have no need to mask.

Someone who does not understand masking is usually someone who does not mask, as even if the person does not know it is called masking, when someone explains what it means to them, they WILL KNOW what is being talked about... Because they do it. It is part of what they do to survive. They just did not know it had a name, but an "Urika" moment will immediately hit them or a "That sounds familiar" moment where they need to ask more to clarify what it means, but deep down they WILL know as they do it. It is part of who they are.



Gammeldans
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23 Oct 2022, 10:49 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
temp1234 wrote:
Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.
Yes, that's my understanding, too. No one's always fully themselves. All people act in some way to earn popularity/look attractive/appeal to others/fit in the group. Non-autistic people are intuitively aware of how to "mask". They have very good skills of "masking", whereas autistic people are impaired in "masking". That's why I was always wondering why there are many people here on WP who can simply mask and unmask as they wish. I thought it was a non-autistic trait.


Not sure as most people don't need to mask. They are happy to be whoever the crowd of them decides they are and they don't force themselves but tend to flow with it. I am different. For me, being a "Team player" means I specialize so I can do my own thing for the benefit of the team, but I avoid doing things that make me part of the team if that makes sense? What I mean is, that if I try and flow with the team I get chucked out of the team as naturally I seem to be operating differently so I soon get bullied or thrown out. (I am the one who tends to get pulled aside by a manager tell me off for actually sticking to te rules when no one else does, and I get told I need to breakthe rules in order to be a "Team player"... Yet if I do what I am told and break rules, it gets me into trouble where everyone else does the same thing and it is ok for them to do it? Never quite worked that one out because when I have asked for these situations to be clarified no one can and they walk off shaking their head!)

But what I am saying is, the others do not pretend to be someone they are not in order to fit in as they already do fit in.

Someone on the spectrum stands out OR they mask to hide that they stand out. The ones that hide are the ones who avoid being diagnosed. The ones who don't hide behind an act are the ones who get diagnosed early as a child or a young adult.

Those who are not on the spectrum have no need to mask.

Someone who does not understand masking is usually someone who does not mask, as even if the person does not know it is called masking, when someone explains what it means to them, they WILL KNOW what is being talked about... Because they do it. It is part of what they do to survive. They just did not know it had a name, but an "Urika" moment will immediately hit them or a "That sounds familiar" moment where they need to ask more to clarify what it means, but deep down they WILL know as they do it. It is part of who they are.

Just because people look happy it doesn't mean that they are happy.
Sure, some people are happy and really enjoy being part of groups in the way you mentioned but....read this: https://medium.com/the-post-grad-surviv ... 1c654fb5d1



ToughDiamond
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23 Oct 2022, 10:51 am

aviandivine wrote:
I got diagnosed this week and it has been a process of taking off the mask I've been wearing for 20 years. I don't have the same strain at the end of the day because I've stopped forcing eye contact. I'm comfortable with how I interact with people now because I'm not doing the 'am I doing this right? am I saying the right thing? am I making enough/too little/too much eye contact?' in my brain all day. I'm just living. I'm feeling almost liberated since I don't feel the need to pretend to be typical. I love it.

Good for you if that's been your experience. I had a bit of that at work after I was diagnosed, because my employer had to back off the pressure on me to do things that were obviously difficult or painful for anybody with my condition to do. And it was a relief for me to feel that if I committed a social gaffe, it was less likely to go against me.

But in the wider world the expectations on me haven't changed appreciably. Telling people of my disability had little or no effect, as if they either didn't believe me or didn't know anything about the condition. My (then) wife understood it, but she took it as a death sentence for our relationship and left me shortly after the DX. Airport staff offered me a wheelchair. Socially, my problems remained much the same.

Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.

Yes I think it's something like that. Also the definition of "masking" seems to include a lot of things that I don't consider to be particularly about concealment of ASD traits. If you have fallen arches, is it masking to wear arch supports so that you can walk? I wear contact lenses but I don't fear people knowing about them.



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23 Oct 2022, 11:01 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
aviandivine wrote:
I got diagnosed this week and it has been a process of taking off the mask I've been wearing for 20 years. I don't have the same strain at the end of the day because I've stopped forcing eye contact. I'm comfortable with how I interact with people now because I'm not doing the 'am I doing this right? am I saying the right thing? am I making enough/too little/too much eye contact?' in my brain all day. I'm just living. I'm feeling almost liberated since I don't feel the need to pretend to be typical. I love it.

Good for you if that's been your experience. I had a bit of that at work after I was diagnosed, because my employer had to back off the pressure on me to do things that were obviously difficult or painful for anybody with my condition to do. And it was a relief for me to feel that if I committed a social gaffe, it was less likely to go against me.

But in the wider world the expectations on me haven't changed appreciably. Telling people of my disability had little or no effect, as if they either didn't believe me or didn't know anything about the condition. My (then) wife understood it, but she took it as a death sentence for our relationship and left me shortly after the DX. Airport staff offered me a wheelchair. Socially, my problems remained much the same.

Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.

Yes I think it's something like that. Also the definition of "masking" seems to include a lot of things that I don't consider to be particularly about concealment of ASD traits. If you have fallen arches, is it masking to wear arch supports so that you can walk? I wear contact lenses but I don't fear people knowing about them.

I wish some could just stand up and say that "in fact, the term masking is very controversial!".
I am not sure I even like term...but I am not sure what to think.
I even think the idea of "ASD vs NT" is dangerous. People are too much into categorizing.



Mountain Goat
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23 Oct 2022, 1:33 pm

Gammeldans wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
temp1234 wrote:
Gammeldans wrote:
My understanding is that popular kids often do something that they really don't want to do.
It may not be masking but they are often forced to behave in a certain way in order to be popular.
Perhaps they don't really like what they do.
Popular people aren't always that happy.
Yes, that's my understanding, too. No one's always fully themselves. All people act in some way to earn popularity/look attractive/appeal to others/fit in the group. Non-autistic people are intuitively aware of how to "mask". They have very good skills of "masking", whereas autistic people are impaired in "masking". That's why I was always wondering why there are many people here on WP who can simply mask and unmask as they wish. I thought it was a non-autistic trait.


Not sure as most people don't need to mask. They are happy to be whoever the crowd of them decides they are and they don't force themselves but tend to flow with it. I am different. For me, being a "Team player" means I specialize so I can do my own thing for the benefit of the team, but I avoid doing things that make me part of the team if that makes sense? What I mean is, that if I try and flow with the team I get chucked out of the team as naturally I seem to be operating differently so I soon get bullied or thrown out. (I am the one who tends to get pulled aside by a manager tell me off for actually sticking to te rules when no one else does, and I get told I need to breakthe rules in order to be a "Team player"... Yet if I do what I am told and break rules, it gets me into trouble where everyone else does the same thing and it is ok for them to do it? Never quite worked that one out because when I have asked for these situations to be clarified no one can and they walk off shaking their head!)

But what I am saying is, the others do not pretend to be someone they are not in order to fit in as they already do fit in.

Someone on the spectrum stands out OR they mask to hide that they stand out. The ones that hide are the ones who avoid being diagnosed. The ones who don't hide behind an act are the ones who get diagnosed early as a child or a young adult.

Those who are not on the spectrum have no need to mask.

Someone who does not understand masking is usually someone who does not mask, as even if the person does not know it is called masking, when someone explains what it means to them, they WILL KNOW what is being talked about... Because they do it. It is part of what they do to survive. They just did not know it had a name, but an "Urika" moment will immediately hit them or a "That sounds familiar" moment where they need to ask more to clarify what it means, but deep down they WILL know as they do it. It is part of who they are.

Just because people look happy it doesn't mean that they are happy.
Sure, some people are happy and really enjoy being part of groups in the way you mentioned but....read this: https://medium.com/the-post-grad-surviv ... 1c654fb5d1


I think the term "Popular" is (Or "Was" as as it was many years ago I was at school) very different from what you percieve to be popular is. What you refer to are those who we used to call "Drop outs" who were only popular with other drop outs and formed their own small group.
The popular ones were semi interlectuals. The ones who have wealthy parents and who attracted friends. The drop outs were usually addicted to music.



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23 Oct 2022, 3:26 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
"Drop outs" who were only popular with other drop outs and formed their own small group

That sounds like me when I was at secondary school. We stood convention on its head and held that they were the unhealthy oddballs. Numbers didn't matter to me because I felt no need for more than a few "like minds."