Are we Neanderthals?

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I already have done a much more solid investigation about this in Aspie-quiz version 6 & 7. Version 6 asked about origin while version 7 asked both about origin and where they live. Using the participants that live in the US, and comparing this to the racial composition of the whole population, yileds statistically significant differences in the participants (there is a factor 6 of difference between the African and non-African expected proportions). Since people that suspect they have AS are much more likely to do the quiz than NTs, this would mean that afroamericans would have considerably lower AS-prevalence. (http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/race6.htm and http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/race7.htm



Very true. Our traits are the remainder of 1.8 million years of Eurasian Homo evolution. Neanderthals (and possibly other archaic groups) were only the mediators of this diversity. I actually discovered this "by chance" by studying the explained variance on different axises. By fixing the NT-axis at 150,000 years and assuming a linear relationship between time and percent explain variance, the Aspie-axis then becomes 1.8 million years, and the g-axis 35,000 years (time of hybridization). I still call it "The Neanderthal Theory" because I think that Neanderthals must have been the major mediator of traits to our species.

IOW, I have no problem with high autism-prevalence in Asian countries. I only have trouble with high autism-prevalence in African countries.

BTW, the results for Asian Aspies in the US (version 7, Aspie-quiz), didn't find any significant deviation from the expected frequency, and neither did the American-indian group. The only group that showed vast differences were Afroamericans.

asperger's syndrome
From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.

Tony Attwood

This is a quote from the front page of Tony Attwood's website and he is the leading authority on Aspergers Syndrome. He has many years of experience studying people with AS.

So I submit that a world where the majority of people have AS would be allot different and better then a world run by neuro-typicals.

For one thing, it's very very far from a random sample of the world's autists. The sample consists entirely of people with internet connections who chose to answer. That means that there is a tremendous bias in your sample. It is hard to see why any hard conclusions can be drawn from it for that reason alone.



Ok. The problem is that there's a near total lack of data regarding autism prevalence in Africa, excepting South Africa. Any argument for a particular view of autism prevalence in most of Africa amounts to an argument from ignorance.

Don't get me wrong. I think your test is a good thing. A very good thing. I just don't see why anyone would argue that it's a representative sample of anything other than computer literate people who think (for whatever reason) that they are autistic.

Read the article. Africans have 1/6 asperger prevalence of europeans

Yes, the sample is biased towards the higher functioning end. However, this is so for both the NT and Aspie samples. The interesting bias that might affect the conclusions is not whether the Aspie-population or the NT-population selection is biased or not, but if there is different biases in the Aspie vs the NT population. All the interesting conclusions are based on differences between the participating Aspies and NTs. The raw numbers in themselves are rather meaningless.



Yes, but Aspie-quiz didn't do the prevalence study in Africa, but in the US. It is hard to see why Afroamericans would have such a low participation ratio in Aspie-quiz (and indeed in the autistic community as a whole), given that Afroamericans Internet usage is almost the same as white Americans and that 12-13% of the US population is Afroamerican. Also study the thread about south Africa in the private forum. Apparently, the few participants that have answered about their ancestry are all Caucasian. Yet, we would anticipate a 10:1 ratio between African ancestry and Caucasian ancestry in South Africa.



I try to keep the test separate from the Neanderthal theory, but I have and will again test specific predictions as experimental questions. After all, this opportunity was the major reason why I created the test. The questions that made it into the final version were all selected based on previous answers, especially high differences in answers between the Aspie and NT population and as little correlation as possible with other questions. I actually didn't even pay any attention to each questions possible relation to official diagnostic criteria as this would bias the test. The only bias I did was to use slightly more social/communicative questions than was motivated in order to get similar scores in both the male and female population.

All I want to know is this:

Just because I use Geico Insurance, does that make me less of an aspie?

I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.
I love that commercial

Agreed. If you took that data in front of a board of researchers, they would rip it apart. There's no way you can assume that your sample is representative.

What *about* ASD populations in Africa, though? Especially since so many African Americans have at least some Caucasian blood. You can't just discount an entire continent by saying, "Oh, well, I included the descendants of some African people that emigrated to the US as many as several hundred years ago." And I really doubt you had many Africans taking that quiz.



Plus, even if you're looking at African Americans, you have to take into account cultural differences in terms of whether they'd be interested in taking this sort of quiz or not- not all cultures are as obsessed with diagnosing themselves with problems as the mainstream Caucasian majority in the US, England, and possibly Western Europe. I remember having conversations about this very topic with some of my foreign friends in college. Many countries just don't have the same culture of mental illness and psychotherapy.

im not reading through the article... think i know the jist.

while i dont think neanderthal genes are specifically what contributes to AS ect... I do think our ancestors conoodled with the neanderthals... think this is molecularly supported enough.

Common sense says that if Afroamericans are heavily mixed-up with Causasians, and given that AS is primarily a "Caucasian"-thing, pure-bread Africans will be even lower in AS prevalence than Afroamericans. Nothing else than Caucasian admixture can explain the 1/6 AS prevalence of Afroamericans.



Quite irrelevant. If you want to know the AS-prevalence in Africa, go check people out. As simple as that.



Yeah, very likely . It is only Afroamericans that seems to suffer from this problem, not Asians or American indians.

Yeah, it starts to gain increasing support. What still is lacking in the debate is the consequences of such admixture.

I think you have poor reading skills. I just explained above that sample selection is irrelevant. The method used in Aspie-quiz is based on factor-analysis, which discovers whatever underlying factors are in the material. It happens so that the primary factor - secondary factor has a 0.7-0.8 correlation with diagnosed autism, 0.9-0.95 with diagnosed AS and 0.95-0.99 correlation with self-diagnosed Aspies. It also happens so that the the NT control group has -0.9 - -0.95 correlation. On top of that, Aspie-quiz have been validated against the AQ-test, which shows high score correlations (more than 0..

You caught me. I've got awful reading skills. That's how I got an 800 on the GRE verbal, and also why I'm doing so well in my Ph.D program. Let's not start slinging insults around, huh?

Anyway, I believe that it is you who didn't understand what I was referring to. I was referring to what I understood to be your assumption that since a relatively small percentage of people taking your Aspie quiz are African American, therefore African Americans have a lower incidence of ASD than Caucasians. If I'm missing something, by all means, enlighten me.

What I'm challenging *is* your "given" that AS is primarily a Caucasian thing. When that is no longer a given, but rather the hypothesis under consideration, the rest of your reasoning does not follow. I also challenge your assumption that your African American ASD stats are accurate.



Why would you group African American culture with the Asian and American Indian cultures? It's a faulty assumption that you can lump non-Caucasians together like that. Why could Asian culture in this case not behave more similarly to Caucasian American culture than African American culture does? How much do you know about African American culture anyway? In my speech path program, it's been the subject of discussion in quite a few classes, because cultural differences are vital to take into account during assessment, intervention, and when interacting with families, so I've at least had some exposure.

Edit: I see you're in Sweden. If you were raised there, then I guess you really haven't had much experience with African American culture. That sheds some light on the subject.

I wouldn't necessarily say that AS is primarily a caucasian thing. Aspies come in many colors. There might be a higher prevalence of Asperger in certain regions, primarily North America and Europe, but there are also many aspies in Asia and Australia. Many of these rates are due to how cultural differences have influenced genetics.
But with how little attention is ever given to the over-abundance of human rights issues in Africa here in the west, it would be no surprise if they were more ignored or overlooked.... George Washington Carver was likely an aspie, he was a black man.