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RainSong
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19 Sep 2007, 6:28 pm

seppukuh wrote:
There's a brilliant example that should make that clear:

Name the animal that doesn't belong into the following sequence: bee, zebra, fly, wasp.


Zebra, of course. Is that an example of a question you would answer or would not answer?


I find those questions to be rather easy. But then, I always find words to be easy.

Nobodyzdream, I would have picked chaos too. Turmoil causes disorder, and calamity causes chaos. However, I suppose disaster could also be right, if one assumes that disorder must be present in turmoil and therefore, in essence, is a definition of that word.


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nutbag
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19 Sep 2007, 6:57 pm

GrimFaire,

You are not alone. These items are subjective in nature. Whilst I can do well on objective parts of tests, these subjective areas require me to think as did the writer. I cannot do that. I think like me.


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jess162k7
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16 Jan 2008, 4:27 pm

head is to hat..



hang on.. i remember doing those little tests in junior school


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16 Jan 2008, 4:37 pm

head is to hat what shed is to .... :lol:



CrushedPentagon
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16 Jan 2008, 10:50 pm

The trick to these things is to realize that the people who write them are not very smart. The answer is always something that is simple. If you come up with a more complicated answer, it is probably wrong. If they want to make it tricky, they will have it so that the simple, obvious thing does not quite work out. Most puzzles, brain teasers, and pattern tests have neat answers. If your answer does not seem simple and neat (and if you are too smart ;) this can happen easily), look for another one.

For the doctor/hospital one, "A is in B," although a very simple relationship, does not work, because it is true for all answers. For another question, the relationship could be "A is in B," if it works for only one answer.



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17 Jan 2008, 11:31 am

CrushedPentagon wrote:
The trick to these things is to realize that the people who write them are not very smart. The answer is always something that is simple. If you come up with a more complicated answer, it is probably wrong. If they want to make it tricky, they will have it so that the simple, obvious thing does not quite work out. Most puzzles, brain teasers, and pattern tests have neat answers. If your answer does not seem simple and neat (and if you are too smart ;) this can happen easily), look for another one.

For the doctor/hospital one, "A is in B," although a very simple relationship, does not work, because it is true for all answers. For another question, the relationship could be "A is in B," if it works for only one answer.


The problem is what is simple to one person is not simple to another. Solving 4th degree DiffEQs in my head is simple to me but I'm pretty not to most people. Figuring that a hand goes into the glove is not simple to me when comparing it to head and hat. I get stuck trying to figure the relationship that head has to hand and the fact that a hat sits on top of the head while the hand goes into the glove. Thus A+B is not equal to C+D invalidating that answer.

It's the same thing with a true/false statement... these drive me up the wall... for better than 99% of them I can find a falseness in the statement...yet they'll be marked as true statements.


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AspieDave
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17 Jan 2008, 1:58 pm

Just a thought, but I bet visual thinkers do better on those type of tests.... The mental pictures just kind of.... flow into one another. Don't know any other way to describe it.


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ev8
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17 Jan 2008, 2:14 pm

seppukuh wrote:
I find tests like these absurd and simply wrong. When there is no given rule, any member fits because a rule can be made that makes it fit. It is ridiculous to favor one arbitrary rule over another. Out of principle I refuse to answer questions about relations or sequences that do not state the specific rule that applies.

There's a brilliant example that should make that clear:

Name the animal that doesn't belong into the following sequence: bee, zebra, fly, wasp.

-Stefan


But even a fly can have stripes, and all of the animals can be found in Africa. All of them have hair, too. The answer can't not be zebra, unless I'm missing something.



TheMandalore
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17 Jan 2008, 4:23 pm

ev8 wrote:
seppukuh wrote:
I find tests like these absurd and simply wrong. When there is no given rule, any member fits because a rule can be made that makes it fit. It is ridiculous to favor one arbitrary rule over another. Out of principle I refuse to answer questions about relations or sequences that do not state the specific rule that applies.

There's a brilliant example that should make that clear:

Name the animal that doesn't belong into the following sequence: bee, zebra, fly, wasp.

-Stefan


But even a fly can have stripes, and all of the animals can be found in Africa. All of them have hair, too. The answer can't not be zebra, unless I'm missing something.


You started looking at the specifics, when you need to look at a simpler perspective. Which are insects, and which are mammals? The trick is to ask a "simple" question that makes the answer obvious. I used to get screwed up on them too, until I used that method. Works perfectly.


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Grimfaire
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17 Jan 2008, 4:31 pm

TheMandalore wrote:
ev8 wrote:
seppukuh wrote:
I find tests like these absurd and simply wrong. When there is no given rule, any member fits because a rule can be made that makes it fit. It is ridiculous to favor one arbitrary rule over another. Out of principle I refuse to answer questions about relations or sequences that do not state the specific rule that applies.

There's a brilliant example that should make that clear:

Name the animal that doesn't belong into the following sequence: bee, zebra, fly, wasp.

-Stefan


But even a fly can have stripes, and all of the animals can be found in Africa. All of them have hair, too. The answer can't not be zebra, unless I'm missing something.


You started looking at the specifics, when you need to look at a simpler perspective. Which are insects, and which are mammals? The trick is to ask a "simple" question that makes the answer obvious. I used to get screwed up on them too, until I used that method. Works perfectly.


Personally I think it's wasp as it's the only predator in the list. That's pretty simple.


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ev8
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17 Jan 2008, 4:37 pm

Grimfaire wrote:
TheMandalore wrote:
ev8 wrote:
seppukuh wrote:
I find tests like these absurd and simply wrong. When there is no given rule, any member fits because a rule can be made that makes it fit. It is ridiculous to favor one arbitrary rule over another. Out of principle I refuse to answer questions about relations or sequences that do not state the specific rule that applies.

There's a brilliant example that should make that clear:

Name the animal that doesn't belong into the following sequence: bee, zebra, fly, wasp.

-Stefan


But even a fly can have stripes, and all of the animals can be found in Africa. All of them have hair, too. The answer can't not be zebra, unless I'm missing something.


You started looking at the specifics, when you need to look at a simpler perspective. Which are insects, and which are mammals? The trick is to ask a "simple" question that makes the answer obvious. I used to get screwed up on them too, until I used that method. Works perfectly.


Personally I think it's wasp as it's the only predator in the list. That's pretty simple.


Ah! I think you're on to something. :]



TheMandalore
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17 Jan 2008, 4:56 pm

But its testing your ability to recognize relationships between things, not your knowledge of them. Think of the question using knowledge that a first grader would know. (Doesn't always work on the word problems.) Insects and mammals are something that everyone would know, without even looking that hard, just a generalization. Predators, hair, stripes, location, even wings(which gives the same answer), are looking too specificly.


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Grimfaire
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17 Jan 2008, 5:17 pm

But how are we to know this without a frame of reference? It's like asking a question to compute the volume of an object in motion and you know advanced calculus so can determine the exact volume of the system but they actually expect you to choose a less correct answer because not everyone knows Calculus. It's this whole insane herd mentality that NTs have. Play to the least common denominator.

They've actually done studies proving how stupid people are. Put 5 people in a room, 4 are in on the test, the 5th is the test subject. Give them a multiple choice question with an obviously correct answer and 3 obviously incorrect ones (say compare length of a line). Have the first 4 go up and all pick the same wrong answer; the 5th person will go up and pick that same wrong answer.

Just because it's an easy or common answer doesn't make it the correct one.


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CrushedPentagon
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17 Jan 2008, 6:54 pm

That is exactly what I was talking about. If you are not clever enough to figure out what the least common denominator is, then you have to face the fact that you are not good at this type of test. Cheer up, you are probably good at something else.

Most people know zebras don't fly, I would assume.



TheMandalore
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18 Jan 2008, 1:30 am

Grimfaire wrote:
But how are we to know this without a frame of reference? It's like asking a question to compute the volume of an object in motion and you know advanced calculus so can determine the exact volume of the system but they actually expect you to choose a less correct answer because not everyone knows Calculus. It's this whole insane herd mentality that NTs have. Play to the least common denominator.

They've actually done studies proving how stupid people are. Put 5 people in a room, 4 are in on the test, the 5th is the test subject. Give them a multiple choice question with an obviously correct answer and 3 obviously incorrect ones (say compare length of a line). Have the first 4 go up and all pick the same wrong answer; the 5th person will go up and pick that same wrong answer.

Just because it's an easy or common answer doesn't make it the correct one.


What does calculus have to do with these types of questions? They are testing your basic ability to see relationships in common things, not testing your KNOWLEDGE. You're looking for what is MOST alike.

Wasps, bees, and flies have six legs, wings, are hundreds of times smaller than zebras, have no teeth, and an exoskeleton.(You could probably think up many more, those just popped in my head) They quite obviously have more in common with each other than the zebra. There is a reason we have the word "insect"... because they have so much in common with one another. Once more, you're overthinking it. Step back, look at the problem as an NT would.

Its not hard, you're just making it hard.
Wow... never thought I would be the one using that phrase.


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lau
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18 Jan 2008, 3:46 am

To jump in with my two-pen'orth:

Which is the odd one out: pea, sap, paper, ape.

I find these things tedious and annoying. Although the people setting the tests do try hard, they never seem able to step back and review what they have done.

To my mind, the answer to the above is "pea" - and I'll explain my logic later, if no one else does.


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