no sense of empathy?

Post Reply New Topic

Shopaholic

Apologies if I sounded harsh, I think I took your post as a personal attack (I missed the earlier post). Thanks for clarifying.

I know better than anyone the suffering that my son goes through at the hands of ignorant bullies - I want to fight his battles for him. It's definitely tough and a learning curve for everyone involved. I only hope that the more recognised AS becomes the more educated people will become.

Thanks again

Just to add my two cents, as someone who doesn't notice changes about people that much, I get told off for not noticing new clothing, shoes, hair etc. I wouldn't notice them unless I was told about them, then, when asked, I have to feign excitement or happiness when all I can think of is "meh". There are days I would like to notice these things, other where I really don't care, and would rather get back to what I was doing.

Also, if I have feelings that I want to express, I never can, and get annoyed with myself, for a long time, when the moment has passed and its too late. I find it helpful to have acknowledgement as well, not just being told I obviously don't care. I know I don't care, but sometimes it would be nice if I did.

I work with my best friend, and if he's talking about something that I don't care about, I tend to go into Nick's World, with some sort of musical accompanyment.

As an aside, since childhood I have never told my parents, or in fact, anyone, that I love them. Never hugged anyone, don't like handshakes, and only kiss someone goodbye because everyone else seems to. I know its all part of the package, when these things hit you for the first time, it really stings.

Now reading these replies, I can empathise with a lot of it because I have been there, felt that. Also, when my mum has cried in the past, the first thing that came into my head is "oh stop crying, for goodness sake".

SO my son !

In some cases, I just don't care, or don't know how to care because I didn't know it was wrong or dramatic. In others, I'm just good at hiding how I feel. It's not so emotional that I feel the need to express myself. In other words, I have some control over my emotions, and am insensitive. Either way, I can't have empathy for people I don't understand. Even if I did, understanding them would be like having a list of stuff that describes what the person is like without really getting it. Apparently, telling people they don't have common sense is disrespectful (I didn't know that before until someone told me), and I don't understand why, necessarily; but I avoid saying it only because it's a point in my mind that I memorize and use. I can know why people feel a certain way, but I cannot necessarily feel what they feel.

Let's just get the definition down on this, first: Empathy: Understanding, being aware of, and being sensitive to the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another without actually sharing the feelings or emotions of another or A sense of shared experience, including emotional and physical feelings, with someone or something other than oneself.

So actually, I'd say the entire point of empathy, in many ways, is that an individual could be an expert and have an intimate understanding of a situation, condition, or event without having directly experienced it. Because you would find it difficult to understand something you hadn't experienced directly doesn't necessarily mean that another might not be able to do so, if they have sufficient sense of empathy with that event or experience. So I think you're wrong on this one.

To answer the question itself, I think that those with Asperger's do have a sense of empathy, just like everyone else (except psychopaths/sociopaths), but empathy will only take us so far, we can only empathise with things that we have at least a degree of experience with, once an event or experience gets too far removed from our personal experiences, we no longer have the capacity for empathy with it. Now, that sense of empathy can be cultivated - we can discuss and learn and read about events, we can see similar events, go out of our ways to get experiences that will help us to understand, and so we can learn to have empathy with things that we initially had none. To give an example, this is one of the reasons for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, during which Muslims fast during the daylight hours, consuming only water. It is said that a Muslim should know what hunger feels like so they will have sympathy for those who have no food. The goal is, in many ways, to build a sense of empathy with the poor through creating a shared experience.
Now, with Aspies, because we experience and express emotions differently, we already start one degree removed from NTs, so a sense of empathy may be harder to cultivate. An NT will instinctively understand, through a shared set of emotional reactions, what another may be going through, we are more likely to have to learn. But similarly, they have to learn about us - it's not instinctive to them to feel empathy for us, because we don't react in a way they understand. Both can learn about the other, and begin to cultivate a sense of empathy and understanding of what the other is going through.

Hope that's all clear - it's a little abstract, I think.

I understand that feeling, but I think I learned to crush it and ignore it. Giving in doesn't help, at least if you care for the other person, I feel like you've got a duty to try and help them get past their pain. I still get the feeling a bit, sometimes, when I'm trying to help, but mostly I've learnt to instead immediately jump to wanting to help. I remember sitting with my mum and not really understanding why she was upset, but also understanding that just being there, giving her a hug, and saying meaningless platitudes would help get her through things. And, since I did want her to feel better, on an intellectual level, that's what I'd do. Learnt response, so much so that I just jump straight to what I'd now consider a genuine, if perhaps flawed, sense of empathy for others. I definitely had to cultivate the skills and feelings, and I'd never argue I'm particularly good at it, even now, but I do try because I feel I ought to.

Lola1, I'm not sure how you'd go about teaching your son this, but I'm sure it's worth trying. Maybe you can try to explain to him about feelings and possibly talk in terms of reciprocal actions? Like if you're there for others when they're upset, they'll want to be there for you? I'm sure this is something you could build up to, but while saying that I don't know where you'd start. I wish I could be more helpful.

It has been noted that people with AS are often very empathetic towards those who are oppressed/vulnerable.We are said to have a very strong emotional reaction to such groups of individuals,animals,or the environment suffering abuse.I wonder if this is because we "relate" to their situation,often finding ourselves oppressed and vulnerable?Perhaps the very "illogic" of the their abuse offends our love of logic?Perhaps it isnt just that they belong to an "oppressed/vulnerable" group but actually the level of their suffering is so intense that we recognise it and respond?I would be very distressed seeing anyone who was physically hurt and want to assist them....without even thinking,they are AS or NT.

Emotional suffering,however,is much more difficult to react to.It just makes me want to cry,pet the animal or give something physical to try and make them feel better.I am very destressed by strong emotions but dont often know what to do.....Not knowing how to respond is a very uncomfortable feeling and I imagine some of us have learned to shut it off as a protection against this distress.

Empathy says that you are not feeling what the other person/animal is feeling but I often feel it to strongly and it hurts,makes me depressed or angry(at their abuser,not them).So angry I feel like hurting the thing that is hurting them which is often impossible and again frustrating.

I also think that there are just as many NT's who do not see our suffering because they relate everything to their own experiences.(Just like many AS).They do not feel the level of distress at the same things we do,so they "assume" we are over-reacting(Perhaps as they do when seeking attention)and not that our actual "senses" are over-reactive(compared to their own).
They have learned to trust their "feelings",I am more likely to question them and use logical deduction to figure out why someone is acting/reacting a certain way.I practice empathy because I am often confused by people and have been trying to teach myself about what "motivates" peoples responses to situation.That is probably why I went into psychology in the first place....a desire to understand humans.However,not all AS have such an "obsession" in studying humans,(though many of us are forced to,since we can't easily avoid them and have to learn their language to "get by".


I have worked in social services for 12 years and more recently with nonhuman animals.I can tell you from my own experience that I am constantly shocked by the lack of effort of many NT's to feel these "others" perspective,needs,desires.Most of the people I work with are completely consumed in their own human dramas and seem untouched by these others "needs".I think it calls into uestion a lot of assuptions about what NT's actual ability to empathisize.vs their ability to "fake" concern in appropriate situations(like when someone is looking or asks them).They maybe better at "presenting" at concern but I dont often see it in the behavior towards the animals or individuals we work with,as they seem to avoid them and spend the time socializing among "themselves".

[quote="mmaestro"]

Hi,

I think the main issue really is in understanding the other. And how can you understand - i.e. feel the emotion, energy, issue at hand - truly - unless you yourself once *walked in those shoes*? Because unless you've actually been in similar circumstances yourself, you just cannot imagine what the other is going through, and you will need to rely on someone else's definition of what that experience might be. And that is where the *experts* fail and fail again because for every experience there are at least 1,000 different ways of experiencing it and afaik there isn't one single textbook or website out there that offers all perspectives and angles on the human psyche in all variants of the human experience, AS notwithstanding.

So-called medical *professionals* are given way too much leeway in their methodologies and theories, when in fact they're all groping around in the dark without a clue. Nobody knows the origins of the autistic spectrum, they can't cure anything, they certainly can feel sympathy but are so concerned with bloody transference that they put up huge walls as is to keep the *patient* at bay. So how can they possibly be in a position to put themselves in the *patient's* place and really understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of sensory onslaughts? What it's like to feel like an alien being in the wrong place always at the wrong time? They can conjecture. That's fine. It's what psychiatry is all about, after all. And there are those that really try, and there are certainly those who appear to be genuine, however the best they can do is serve as pill pushers with degrees hanging on their walls. Meanwhile, the sufferers are continuing to suffer and nary an advancement is being made in SPITE of the billions spent dissecting mice and genomes.

I'll be straightforward in that I'm not good with Empathy however, this should not be taken in the context that, somehow I must be some socialpath or such as, people from High School looked upon me as.Realistically, I tend to have a vigillante like attitude about crime therefore, I'm not some whom would hurt another myself,etc..

I hope this makes sense?

I go through hell for being unable to empathize with people. Someone could be telling me how horrible their day has gone and I have nothing to say to them. It’s not that I don’t care, I just don’t know what to say to them to help them out. I see myself as more of someone they can rant to when they need to get something of off their chest. More than likely they’ll go elsewhere for sympathy if they find out they can’t get it from me.

I'm really not very good with empathizing with others at all. I just don't get caught up in the emotions of other people like that. I've learned what I'm SUPPOSED to say in those situations but there's absolutely no emotion inside when I'm actually saying it. One of the only times I get emotional is during certain movies. I think it's a lot easier then to feel those emotions or empathize because there are other clues to help you get it. Music being the main one.

I think this is a marvelous idea......People should be required to carry around their own soundtracks expressing their current emotional state....a T-shirt with automatic emoticoms would also be very helpful...I think both of these would "sell like hot-cakes"(a very old expression,when hot-cakes were evidently very popular?Maybe sell like....online porn........ would be a more accurate statement now a days?)

Anyway....any of you techies are welcome to develop this technology and I only request a 10% idea finders fee.Now get "crackin",cause I need some money soon.

Look to your left at the emoticons. A helluva lot of people went stark raving mad because of the *smiley* because it was hip and fashionable to wear it even if they felt like hell inside. Remember the slogans that went along with it: *Don't worry, be happy*.....*Have a nice day*.....*Smile*.....then somewhere in the 90's things began changing. All of a sudden Mr. Smiley became Mr. Dontfuckwithme. That's gotta say something about a culture and the rage that's overflowing into cartoons....