Exercise combined with a high salt diet

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Griff
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20 Oct 2007, 3:23 pm

jjstar wrote:
Griff wrote:
For one thing, muscular contraction releases interleukin-6, which plays a role in some of the vasopressinergic effects of physical exercise, and this should also help to rein in the excessive acetylcholine levels found in some autists due to some of the anticholinergic effects of interleukin-6. For another, sodium chloride should reverse some of the effects of elevated interleukin-2 levels found in autists, and it would also affect an increased production and release of vasopressin via its effects on nitric oxide synthase (NOS).

An l-arginine blocker might produce similar effects, but this could lead to an elevated risk of Alzheimer's Disease and other forms of old age dementia. I wouldn't recommend it.

Whether this would have any chance of helping in autists lacking the NOS gene remains to be known.


But would probably be an excellent method to induce a heart attack ;)
No. Those who are relatively young and exercising regularly are not hurt by this mineral and benefit from it.



Griff
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20 Oct 2007, 3:25 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
My sodium levels are usually good. What I tend to have trouble with is potassium. A time it has been at dangerous levels especially if I get ill. If I have vomited I know it is usually to late and have to start replacing the potassium as soon as possible. Once when was in hospital I had a reading of 1.6. I think that is not very good, they gave me an ECG as I had before. It has never damaged my heart yet, but I do get severe cramping that I buckle over in pain. I think the combination of hyperventilating and the low potassium will do that. A drip electrolite for 24 hours is the usual treatment.

I believe you can get a simple portable prick test much like sugar level test for your essential minerals. Well they appeared to have such a thing in the ambulance, though I didn't see where the reading came out of.
I think that high potassium levels evokes the release of both acetylcholine and met-enkephalin. I wonder, what effect does acetylcholine have on the release of met-enkephalin?



juliekitty
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20 Oct 2007, 5:20 pm

Griff wrote:
However, I've never really heard of any correlation between AS and blood pressure.


Me neither.

I've never heard of a thyroid/asperger's link, either. But I've seen enough posts along those lines that my spidey sense is tingling.

Griff wrote:
This is why any heightening in salt intake would HAVE to be accompanied by an increase in physical exercise. Otherwise, health could be negatively affected.


Well, I certainly feel at my best when I do both. But I can't speak for other aspies as far as that goes, obviously.

However, I'm suspecting that if there IS a thyroid/aspie link, it could cause low blood pressure in aspies, which would recommend a high salt diet.

I won't be running the trials, though! :wink:



monty
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21 Oct 2007, 8:02 am

Griff wrote:
monty wrote:
I haven't had time to trace out the merits of this theory, and am leaving for the weekend. So I will just put some preliminary thoughts.
When you get to it, I'd appreciate any thoughts on what this combination might be good for if possible. If you can, would you also try to find out what might cause excessive respiratory mucosal secretion? This is a severe problem in me that has caused me all sorts of trouble.


There are many possible causes - not sure what is behind yours. Guaifenesin (an expectorant from tree bark) is the most common treatment for excess mucous and it is in many OTC cold medicines. Bromelain, an enzyme from pineapple, is also effective in loosening mucous and helps with the clearance of sinusitis and other respiratory conditions. I have no idea if these would be beneficial for you, but mention them as a point of interest.


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I have several conditions associated with high IL-6.
Funny. This is really more associated with treatment-responsive schizophrenia than with autism. That you're producing it in high quantities, however, might suggest high dopamine levels,


IL-6 is typically elevated with hundreds of different diseases. In my case, it is anxiety/panic disorders and depression.


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I am also skeptical of whether exercise increases IL-6; it appears that occasional exercise or overtraining may do so (via oxidative burst), but a healthy exercise training program decreases IL-6 and other inflammatory cytokines.
These inflammatory cytokines are necessary for proper immune function, though, which is very peculiar. I wouldn't think that you'd make less of them when engaged in activities that supposedly improve immune function unless physical exercise actually improves the action of these cytokines thereby down-regulating their production.


While IL-6 is needed for immune function, it is a question of the right amount at the right time. Many chronic, degenerative diseases are associated with constantly elevated levels of IL-6, CRP, TNF, etc. It is good to be able to pump out some IL-6 when an infection occurs, but many people have it turned on continuously, which is bad for the immune system, the heart, the joints, the brain, and many other organs. If exercise improves the off-on switch for IL-6, it will improve the immune system.


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Salt is essential, but at what dose?
I don't know. These propellor-tops won't put numbers in the abstracts. It makes me want to punch them.

I am also frequently frustrated by abstracts that lack key facts. Often, taxpayer money funds the research, the researcher has to pay thousands of dollars of 'publication charges' to get the paper published, and then the journal wants to charge the public $35 to be able to look at the full paper on the internet. Shameful.


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Migraines and other related conditions (which I also have) seem to be aggravated by extra sodium and/or chloride, while they benefit from magnesium. And there are some studies that suggest that magnesium (often with vitamin B-6) may help with Autism spectrum disorders ... and there is also evidence that magnesium/B-6 can also help with migraine.
Funny. Caffeine, which raises norepinephrine levels, is useful for treating migraine headaches. Kappa-opioid receptor activation inhibits the release of both norepinephrine and acetylcholine. Interesting.

Caffeine can be good for migraines in the short run, but in the long run, higher intake of caffeine is a risk factor for migraines. It may change norepinephrine levels - this is probably secondary to changes in cAMP/cGMP levels, which are profoundly changed by caffeine.


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I think your reasoning on arginine and vasopressin is hard to follow. There are two forms of vasopressin (arginine-V and lysine-V). But where is the link between arginine levels in the diet/blood and vasopressin production?
I was referring specifically to nitro-l-arginine, actually. I should have specified this. It seems to down-regulate vasopressin.

Ok, I haven't read much about nitro-l-arginine.

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Both vasopressins are nonapeptides (chains of 9 amino acids), and arginine (or lysine) occurs only once. Taking arginine lowers blood pressure, while vasopressin increases it.
Blood pressure.. Vasopressin. This is very interesting subject matter. It gets more fascinating every time I look at it.
Yup.

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I am going to have to reassess my reasoning.

It's complex stuff - constant reassessment is needed. Over time, if done right, a better grasp on the truth emerges.

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There may be something to your ideas. But the theory appears somewhat over-reaching to me and is not laid out clearly.
It's not laid out clearly because I am voicing my thoughts on this as I think about it. Everything that I write is a direct feed from my frontal lobe. My speech is similar.

I've noticed. One suggestion ... focus on a smaller issue or linkage for a longer time. Ultimately, everything is connected to everything in the body, and changing one thing changes so many things, it is difficult to tell what might really work, and what probably wont.



Griff
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21 Oct 2007, 8:46 am

monty wrote:
Ok, I haven't read much about nitro-l-arginine.
Oh, it's very interesting. It makes my brain hurt, so it must be important.

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I am going to have to reassess my reasoning.

It's complex stuff - constant reassessment is needed. Over time, if done right, a better grasp on the truth emerges.
I don't think I could do this constantly. I did it all day, and my brain's still broke.

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There may be something to your ideas. But the theory appears somewhat over-reaching to me and is not laid out clearly.
It's not laid out clearly because I am voicing my thoughts on this as I think about it. Everything that I write is a direct feed from my frontal lobe. My speech is similar.

I've noticed. One suggestion ... focus on a smaller issue or linkage for a longer time. Ultimately, everything is connected to everything in the body, and changing one thing changes so many things, it is difficult to tell what might really work, and what probably wont.
I am. I'm focusing on acetylcholine. It's been the center of my attention since yesterday morning. You mean I have to get down to the Assembly, yes? Okay, that's cool.

This subject is like dopamine. The more things you add to it, the more trouble you're in. At first, you think you're just getting a cheap sugar rush, but then it hits you: the walls are staring, and the floor is covered with worms. Along comes Old Man Phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase, and he's out there, standing quietly at your door, awaiting your moment of weakness.

It's the Day of Rest. I think I will honor my Christian ancestors today.



Ana54
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24 Oct 2007, 7:13 pm

I was diagnosed with As at 14 and now my shrink thinks it might be NOS. I craved salt when I was a kid. I used loads of it on my food. My dad did the same thing (I think even more so) and he's more autistic than me. :)



becca423b
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24 Oct 2007, 8:28 pm

I don't think a high sodium diet is necessarially a good idea....you need about 2 g of salt per day, but the average american consumes about 11 grams per day. Excess salt intake is really not good for a person, and it is a big factor in high blood pressure. If someone has really low blood pressure, yes, more salt would be a good thing, but drinking more water would probably be better. (or something like gatorade that has salt in it). What people really need to consume more of is potassium.....most people don't get enough.