Revenge

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Silver Meteor, do you have an example?

Personally, if someone is being a jerk, it's best to resolve the issue right then and there. I'm tired of this just take it crap people are dishing out to others. People use that as an exploit to be jerks knowing people won't stand up for themselves because they will be penalized for it and the jerk will not. It's all backwards and makes no sense.

Taking care of the problem as it is occuring cancels out any future regret of not standing up for yourself. There was this one time I was flipping through channels years ago and saw this talk show about people who were bullied as kids for being physically ugly. Then they come out on stage with plastic surgery, big fake bowling ball breasts, bleached blonde hair and poofy trout lips just so they can tell that one bully "HEY LOOK AT ME NOW!"

All of that stuff happened to them when they were in elementary school and here they are as adults spending thousands of dollars to look like a trout with huge breasts wearing a blonde wig just so they can say they are so much better now. If they would have stood up for themselves at the time of harrassment or resolved the issue, there would have been no need to spend all that money and embarass themselves further on a talk show. LOOK AT ME!! IM BETTER WEEE

The bullies forgot about it. They eventually grew up and were saying...ummm who are you? What did I do? WTF??

So basically, if you didn't do something at that time to cancel it out, it's you who is left dealing with you. Part of dealing with you are the bad feelings that arise. Sure it came from someone else originally but now it's your mind taking the everlasting blow and now it's all on you.

Revenge, all that is doing is letting someone know...Hey I regret that i didn't do anything about it. It lets them know that they got to you and it strokes their ego meanwhile you once again find yourself at the disadvantage.

To answer your question Kitsy, there was one example that came to mind. It was really more humorous than anything.

A long time ago, I had just moved to California and took a room in an apartment that was advertised in the paper. Anyway, the room was not exactly as promised and I was not going to get my security deposit back. So one night when the guy was out of the apartment I decided that if I was not going get my security deposit neither was he. So I used his telephone and then made all these long distance overseas calls. I made these operator-assisted deliberately so those calls would be billed at the highest rate. Then I called Canada, I think Singapore, the Phillippines and I don't know where else. But I must have several of them and then decided to move out the next day and left no forwarding address and let him be stuck with the bill.

The revenge I take usually has two purposes:

1) To produce a positive adaptation to the initial transgressor's behaviour (teaching them not to do so again).

2) To achieve a just retribution against them.

I believe it perfectly moral to punish a transgressor who chooses to harm me in any way, both physically or mentally. Since they chose to make the first strike, I also give myself the right to choose exactly how to define 'just'.

No, revenge is not necessarily about hating people or being angry. The purpose of revenge is to prevent further abuse, preserve your self-esteem, and build up your confidence.

It seems to me that aspies are too "nice" sometimes. By all means, be selfless when it comes to loved ones and strangers. But if someone's a jerk, just ignoring the issue is unlikely to solve the problem.

No, there really isn't. The line between being "healthily assertive" and revenge is not always so clear. Sometimes they are one and the same.

State your evidence.

Simple. If you define revenge as any course of action that is intended to hurt another or gratify oneself and define "being healthily assertive" as any course of action that punishes the aggressor only to the point that punishment prevents further harm, then there will be times where a course of action will fit both definitions.

Consider any imaginable time where you have the power to punish someone or have some else do it for you. Say someone vandalized your property. In this case, turning him into the police will both help to prevent further incidents and appease your anger.

Then again, I clearly stated in one of my previous posts that revenge is not necessarily about anger or hatred. Revenge is also sometimes about preventing further abuse, preserving your self-esteem, and building up your confidence, all of which are forms of self-gratification.

Last edited by IpsoRandomo on 21 Oct 2007, 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Let me see if I read this correctly.

You moved in with a roomate. He had you pay a security deposit. You did not screw up the room but were blamed for it.

Is that it?

Kitsy Said: Let me see if I read this correctly.

You moved in with a roomate. He had you pay a security deposit. You did not screw up the room but were blamed for it.

Is that it?
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My reply: No that was not it. The room was not damaged or screwed up. It was simply not as advertised. In addition, he was having a fight with another roommate who was sort of a jerk. And I was not going to get the security deposit back because it was not worth fighting in court over. So I simply decided to move out.

I would not define healthily assertive as including punishing others. Calling the police is not the same as taking it upon oneself to deliver street justice.

The same course of action may be taken by a person who is assertive and by a person who seeks revenge, but it is the intention of the person that defines the nature of the act as vengeful or not--not the act itself.

If it doesn't involve the desire to see someone suffer in order to "pay" for a perceived slight, I would not define it as revenge.

I've still got my list. (I'm thinking of rubbing them all off...at the high school "reunion"; high school revenge in my mind.)

In reality, "right", "wrong" and "just" means naught to the individual who does such act if said individual doesn't care at all for erroneous and objective justice; it's hard to define people and their pain without living it – scientifically, there’s an opposite and equal reaction to everything. It doesn’t matter if it’s delayed, the reaction is still there.

The past can lie, but so can the present.

I used to be a big vengence kinda guy. I had a lot of stuff to get back at people for. But now, nobody's ticked me off enough to hatch some evil plan. I feel a lot healthier for not having that vengeful spirit right any more.

If anyone ever hurt someone I love or God forbid, killed them... Then the old me would no doubt rage to the surface and there'd be Hell to pay. But that would be because of losing the only reason to be sane in the first place.

The pest revenge I ever had was when I was about seven years old. I was seated on a four foot tall wall at this new school and this huge bully decided to show me who's boss by pushing me over it, into the pit on the other side. He ran up and shoved me... Instinctively I jammed my foot out to try and keep my balance and accidentally kicked him so hard in the nuts he went down and a teacher had to carry him to the sick room ten minutes later.

So my best experience with revenge comes from an incident where it was completely unintentional.

No they aren't. Healthy assertivness is standing up for yourself. Like if a coworker tries to take credit for your work and you correct them. That's asserting yourself. Revenge is the act of getting back at someone, 'he took credit for my work? Then I'll make him pay' mindset. It's just not healthy to want to get back at someone, and is completely different from seeking to correct a wrong.

You're all missing the point by trying to pin down a definition. I provided my definitions to clarify what I meant, but it now seems that we are all squabbling over our own arbitrary definitions of the word "revenge."

The point of my arguments is that more often than you wish to acknowledge, and however you care to define the word "revenge," getting back at someone is necessary for practical reasons. These reasons include preventing further abuse, preserving your self-esteem, and building up your confidence. This can rarely be accomplished without making the other person suffer, regardless of whether anger or hatred is felt.

Some "vengeance," "attack," or whatever you wish to call it is often necessary to resolve a problem. Being nice and turning the other cheek just won't cut it. Just letting people step on you is no way to live. I would be much happier being punished for an act of reprisal than knowing that I did not stand up for myself and show it. Sometimes you must even break the rules as a matter of practicality, as NTs are wont to do.

By the way, It seems to me that aspies should learn to be more manipulative. Not in the sociopathic or narcissistic sense, but in the more generalized NT sense. NTs, for example, will often exaggerate, embellish, suck up, omit minor details, bend rules, or lie here and there. The dishonesty, of course, is usually minor but the lying NT is still using deceit for personal gain. That's just how society works and it's not going to change anytime soon.

As for the adverse consequences that reprisal may have, you should look at the opportunity of reprisal as you would at any other opportunity. All opportunities have their risks and all have potential benefits. Reprisal is no different. The difficulty comes in exacting revenge, for it is then that one must form a plan accounting for costs, benefits, and chance. It may also help to develop back up plans. I do this whenever I seek to make another suffer (for whatever reason) or circumvent the rules.

From My experience...taking revenge in someone often makes the person aware that you wont take to being wronged. BUT you WILL have to deal with the punishment...there WILL be one without a doubt.

But there is one thing that I can say...taking revenge DOES feel good...but you may have regrets afterwards. In my case though, I do not have any regrets from taking revenge as it has taught people that I am NOT some coward who lets people treat them like something you would throw into a garbage can