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Frosty
Snowy Owl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 160
Location: Twentytwo inches in front monitor.
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05 Dec 2007, 10:52 am
Interesting discussion because I am still try to discover what is exactly I can 'see'. I'm quite unusual in that I don't see images in my head at all except in dreams. Meaning it would be impossible for me to 'visualize' a tree for example. If you asked me imagine something I have just bee show that would be impossible too. I don't really think like that, I don't think in words either.
I'm trying to teach myself how to see images in my head. So I don't have to repeat myself here are some excerpts from emails to a psychologist guy that help diagnose me:
Quote:
People with ASD are often described as having ‘mind blindness’ but with me I literarily have mind blindness. I heard there is also something called “Blind Sight” this is a neurological condition where the patient is physically blind because of a legion in the visual cortex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight
‘Blindsight is a phenomenon in which people who are perceptually blind in a certain area of their visual field demonstrate some visual awareness, without any qualitative experience ('qualia'). In Type 1 blindsight subjects have no awareness whatsoever of any stimuli, but yet are able to predict at levels significantly above chance aspects of a visual stimulus, such as location, or type of movement, often in a forced-response or guessing situation. Type 2 blindsight is when subjects have some awareness of, for example, movement within the blind area, but mo visual percept, or qualia. This may be caused by, for example, the person being aware of their eyes' tracking motion which will function normally. Blindsight is caused by injury to the part of the brain responsible for vision, such as may occur in wars or in a car accident.’
From a neurology student:
‘If you shine a light at the person's face and ask them, "Can you see "this," they'll say no. But if instead, they shine the light and say, "point towards the light," the person is able to do so.
Same thing happens if you hold objects in front of their face.... They say they can't see anything but if you ask them to grasp the object, the person extends their hand out in the correct direction... And if you hold a basket ball versus a golf ball and ask them to reach for it, the person is able to do so and also adjust their hand accordingly to appropriately grasp a Bball or golfball.
Also, they are able to recognize facial expressions from pictures ~ 70% of the time as well.... without "seeing" anything’
Anton’s Syndrome is like this but they can’t actually guess, but deny being blind despite not being able to physically see. They ‘see’ exclusively with their imagination.
I’m the sort opposite to these. I can see things in front of me clearly. But I don’t see anything anywhere else other than in dreams.
I have a hard time understanding where people ‘see’ their thoughts. I remember talking to my ex-shrink Belinda. I was asking her where she ‘saw’ these images. She put here hand to the right above her head. So I asked her if it was like they have in cartoons know as ‘thought bubbles’ to the side of the person. She said sort of but it was not actually there but inside her head. She couldn’t tell me if the images were in a particular shape like a rectangle or cloud. I don’t really understand she can be aware of it but not know these things. If it is in you head how could she see me and have these images at the same time. Like if you are driving a car and have one of these thought images pop up wouldn’t you loose control of the vehicle, because you vision is obscured?
I can’t see things in my head and this makes some things like places/routes difficult to remember. I have trouble with getting lost. That is one of the reasons why I don’t drive nowadays even though I have a driving licence, because I can’t go anywhere outside my area. The furthest I’ve gone on my own in a car is croydon/cystal palace area from clapham. I had to be shown several times, then I printed out and stuck together a A1 size map with highlighted route, which I was pulling over to look at the whole time made some mistakes. But what’s most weird is I’m not as severe as I should be. I do actually recognise quite a lot despite my ‘imaging blindness’ some of these probably go beyond my apparent ‘definition’ way of thinking with the detail. It does work in a similar way to blind sight. If I’m not in front of the object I can’t visualise or remember what it is like. But when I see something I can fairly often recognise it if I know to. My main problem is the order. It is much more difficult to know the where these things lie. I don’t have a virtual map. But sometimes I can find my way. Like going to LANC last time I was able to get there without looking at a map or making a mistake. I had to try filter out the mistakes me and my family made the first time we went. On foot it can work for a journey of that length or shorter. I can take in the ‘sight’ as I come to them and then make an assessment of whether it seems familiar. The more complex the environment the more difficult I find it. I remember, was at a meet and suggested going to a restaurant that was recommended to me just in the side street after the globe theatre. I have a pretty good idea what that is, having been to it. I know where it is in roughly relation to some tube stations. Having the river there simplifies it somewhat because you can just walk along it looking at things. However I was talking while trying to lead them so I completely missed the globe theatre and I we went on walking further and further east. The rest of the surrounding was completely meaningless to me. We got to a point where there was no more walk way along the Thames without having to go quite a bit ‘in land’. I said “I’m surprised we haven’t got to the globe theatre yet”. They told me we passed it 15 minutes prior. So we had to walk all the way back.
I don’t view the direction problem as a major obstacle I can use maps quite well. But I think visualisation must be crucial in thinking. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have cognitive problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight
‘Blindsight is a phenomenon in which people who are perceptually blind in a certain area of their visual field demonstrate some visual awareness, without any qualitative experience ('qualia'). In Type 1 blindsight subjects have no awareness whatsoever of any stimuli, but yet are able to predict at levels significantly above chance aspects of a visual stimulus, such as location, or type of movement, often in a forced-response or guessing situation. Type 2 blindsight is when subjects have some awareness of, for example, movement within the blind area, but mo visual percept, or qualia. This may be caused by, for example, the person being aware of their eyes' tracking motion which will function normally. Blindsight is caused by injury to the part of the brain responsible for vision, such as may occur in wars or in a car accident.’
From a neurology student:
‘If you shine a light at the person's face and ask them, "Can you see "this," they'll say no. But if instead, they shine the light and say, "point towards the light," the person is able to do so.
Same thing happens if you hold objects in front of their face.... They say they can't see anything but if you ask them to grasp the object, the person extends their hand out in the correct direction... And if you hold a basket ball versus a golf ball and ask them to reach for it, the person is able to do so and also adjust their hand accordingly to appropriately grasp a Bball or golfball.
Also, they are able to recognize facial expressions from pictures ~ 70% of the time as well.... without "seeing" anything’
Anton’s Syndrome is like this but they can’t actually guess, but deny being blind despite not being able to physically see. They ‘see’ exclusively with their imagination.
I’m the sort opposite to these. I can see things in front of me clearly. But I don’t see anything anywhere else other than in dreams.
I have a hard time understanding where people ‘see’ their thoughts. I remember talking to my ex-shrink Belinda. I was asking her where she ‘saw’ these images. She put here hand to the right above her head. So I asked her if it was like they have in cartoons know as ‘thought bubbles’ to the side of the person. She said sort of but it was not actually there but inside her head. She couldn’t tell me if the images were in a particular shape like a rectangle or cloud. I don’t really understand she can be aware of it but not know these things. If it is in you head how could she see me and have these images at the same time. Like if you are driving a car and have one of these thought images pop up wouldn’t you loose control of the vehicle, because you vision is obscured?
I can’t see things in my head and this makes some things like places/routes difficult to remember. I have trouble with getting lost. That is one of the reasons why I don’t drive nowadays even though I have a driving licence, because I can’t go anywhere outside my area. The furthest I’ve gone on my own in a car is croydon/cystal palace area from clapham. I had to be shown several times, then I printed out and stuck together a A1 size map with highlighted route, which I was pulling over to look at the whole time made some mistakes. But what’s most weird is I’m not as severe as I should be. I do actually recognise quite a lot despite my ‘imaging blindness’ some of these probably go beyond my apparent ‘definition’ way of thinking with the detail. It does work in a similar way to blind sight. If I’m not in front of the object I can’t visualise or remember what it is like. But when I see something I can fairly often recognise it if I know to. My main problem is the order. It is much more difficult to know the where these things lie. I don’t have a virtual map. But sometimes I can find my way. Like going to LANC last time I was able to get there without looking at a map or making a mistake. I had to try filter out the mistakes me and my family made the first time we went. On foot it can work for a journey of that length or shorter. I can take in the ‘sight’ as I come to them and then make an assessment of whether it seems familiar. The more complex the environment the more difficult I find it. I remember, was at a meet and suggested going to a restaurant that was recommended to me just in the side street after the globe theatre. I have a pretty good idea what that is, having been to it. I know where it is in roughly relation to some tube stations. Having the river there simplifies it somewhat because you can just walk along it looking at things. However I was talking while trying to lead them so I completely missed the globe theatre and I we went on walking further and further east. The rest of the surrounding was completely meaningless to me. We got to a point where there was no more walk way along the Thames without having to go quite a bit ‘in land’. I said “I’m surprised we haven’t got to the globe theatre yet”. They told me we passed it 15 minutes prior. So we had to walk all the way back.
I don’t view the direction problem as a major obstacle I can use maps quite well. But I think visualisation must be crucial in thinking. I believe this is one of the main reasons why I have cognitive problems.
Quote:
Thank you very much. I wanted to talk about something odd/interesting. As you know I don't visualise. However sometimes in the morning when I'm awake but my eyes are shut I see things. Do you know that darkness with blotchy red bits on the back of your eyelid? I can sometimes see foggy colours and shapes and also now objects and faces that sort of move and morph. I have to concentrate but I can't manipulate them hardly at all. It is mostly random. I was able to create a white triangle that I saw before, but I could not produce a square. I was trying to get a bright shade of blue. But when I produce blue, green comes with it and also often with white. It doesn't fill the whole of my eye just in parts of the eye and faded. Some of the images can be close to photographic but there aren’t big pictures with lots of detail. I've included an attachment to show the sort of thing I see, it isn't really to scale but I tried to capture the essence of what it is like. I only do it in my right eye as it doesn't seem to happen in my left and I don't use my left eye normally.
Isn't it odd that some people that can see all these images in their head can't draw? I'm ok at drawing and art. I struggle with detailed stuff but I like shapes and colours and I understand the concepts in art like perspective. Even when I'm drawing from life when I look at the canvas or page, I can't remember/visualise the image in front of me but I have a short of definition of the detail I'm focusing on. You would think if you can see these images in your head that would make you much better at art but not everyone who can see these photographic images can draw them.
I’m going to write to various people that left their email there research papers on the NAS website. My cousin is a neuroscientist. She did some research in visual perceptual rivalry with Tibetan monks who were meditating. This is an article, which is worth reading, includes stuff about attention and contains some of her work:
http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=news_111305d
Isn't it odd that some people that can see all these images in their head can't draw? I'm ok at drawing and art. I struggle with detailed stuff but I like shapes and colours and I understand the concepts in art like perspective. Even when I'm drawing from life when I look at the canvas or page, I can't remember/visualise the image in front of me but I have a short of definition of the detail I'm focusing on. You would think if you can see these images in your head that would make you much better at art but not everyone who can see these photographic images can draw them.
I’m going to write to various people that left their email there research papers on the NAS website. My cousin is a neuroscientist. She did some research in visual perceptual rivalry with Tibetan monks who were meditating. This is an article, which is worth reading, includes stuff about attention and contains some of her work:
http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=news_111305d
This is that attachment. Not that impressive but the best I can do. I can't do this all the time. I tried several times since and got nothing. I think I have to be in a special state of not yet fully awake.
05 Dec 2007, 12:02 pm
07 Dec 2007, 5:03 pm
07 Dec 2007, 5:11 pm
when i close my eyes, i see different patterns all around, my thoughts as well become one big picture, then usually i end up seeing myself spinning in circles surrounded by royal blue color floating in the air, yesss weird i know haha.
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07 Dec 2007, 6:08 pm
Icarus_Falling
everyman antihero
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,215
Location: beyond human comprehension
07 Dec 2007, 6:37 pm
07 Dec 2007, 6:51 pm
