*!"What Kind of Schooling Did You Get?"!*

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I left high school after my sophomore year to go to a local alternative school, which is the same material and timeframe, but is presented in a much more open-ended fashion. I stayed for two years past my supposed graduation date, but because I just felt so DONE with high school I slacked the last couple years to the point where I just gave up. I don't need the paper saying I graduated, because I'm an Autodydactic and still learn about hundreds of various subjects on my own time. I love to learn, but in my own space.

I learn very quickly. I think leaving high school half-way through was one of the best things I ever did, even if I was going through medication problems that still are yet to be solved. I had a burst of creativity, and did thousands of hours of research on every topic imaginable, just because I love to learn. So many of my writing projects came from that period of time, some of which I'm still working on.

Normal school from when I turned 5 to when I was 17 (I was put up a year). I also did some university stuff at high school.

I'm very extroverted so I don't really buy into any of this introvert/extrovert typecasting.

My schooling was standard pattern for the Province of Alberta:
kindergarten, 6 years elementary school, 3 years junior high,
and 3 years senior high; I was mainstreamed (regular classes)
from the beginning.

Standard school from age 4 (started kindergarten early) to 17 (high school graduation), then junior college and university. I also attended my local business college for a degree in Legal Office Systems.

Homeschooled K-12 and loved it! My parents have many Aspie traits so we never really fit in with the local homeschool community...but I am still VERY happy that I was homeschooled! Yes, there were struggles...but nothing like those of you who were public/private schooled faced.
After graduating from homeschool, I got a technical certificate and an A.A.S from a local community college. I've yet to use either...but God knows what he's doing, I don't!

Mostly private, alternative schools. Not because of any disability (nobody thought I had one), but just because my parents thought I would get a better education. It turned out to be a very good thing and probably saved me a lot of grief. I'm a natural non-conformist, and the schools I attended allowed me the opportunity to do my own thing. I was also very intelligent, so, unlike some of the other kids, I was able to get a lot out of those schools.

A lot of kids just goofed off (and got away with it) and I worked hard and learned things.

So, "none of the above" in the poll.

The description wasn't of "egoistic and rude people". It is a list of commonly occurring behavioural characteristics in people who are diagnosed as "Aspergers/HFAS", in fact it is virtually the list of criteria for being diagnosed as such!
But it is interesting that you should think it was!!

I am surprised to hear that teachers exist who shut up when pupils are bored!

Also didn't realise that there are ones who allow their pupils to regulate discussion, who do not correct pupils mistakes, and are prepared to talk about any subject that the class is interested in, allowing the lesson to follow the pupils interests and inclinations.
I thought most teachers required some sort of signalling system, hands up etc, from people wanting to contribute. None of this people chipping in when ever feel like it in a naturally rhythmed way. I'd be amazed by a school in which respect for children allowed that.
I thought most teachers made a point of repeating phrases, key words, etc. In fact the problem is that i thought very powerful and effective and well functioning people did. I copied that , and all the rest.
Teachers for instance will not accept divergence from their subject, not for long anyway. To get back to the subject in hand.

I mean that the way teachers behave in classrooms is not necessarily because they are "egoistic and rude" but because the children have to stay there, can not protest, and the school system is a situation of oppression.
The teachers might be very nice people, but they are like men before women had the vote, or other elements of independence, in a position of power which leads inevitably to abuses, even if is "benevolent". Teachers are adults, with power over the children, in a structure forcing children to do certain things.
My point is that although the "social skills" between oppressor and oppressed may well be those of some one egoistic and rude, many of the behaviours described are those of aspergers, as if we have learned our social skills from this situation/dynamic.

Just wondering, correct me if i'm wrong, whether anyone on WP experienced homeschooling, because as far as i can see nobody who has so far answered did..... apart from SuzyQ, sorry, just noticed your post turned up while was writing. Interestingly if you were homeschooled by aspie parents i suppose that your experience was bit like having teachers at home!! Bit like my son has! .
If there were many homeschooled aspies it might cast doubt ( unless parents very pedagogic in their approach to it, as bad as teachers!, and/or aspie themselves! ) on my theory that apart from the highly sensitive and/or introvert nature of so called aspies etc all the rest ( social skills impairment etc) is just the result of conditioning by the school system. ( or the results of the abuse it constitutes).
Anyone?

All of childhood is "conditioned" by coercion based on age. Even the nicest parents can not escape having power of their child. Like even the very nicest slave-owners. Or men with wives in the 1800s. However the particular behaviour of teachers in the classroom seems to me to be the real template for aspergers social impairment.

Last edited by ouinon on 23 Dec 2007, 8:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

Formally, I have a grade 7 education (let's just say my mind wasn't there from grade 8 to 11). Informally, I read a lot (go go special interests). I repeated grade 2 due to my verbal impairment; I had trouble reading/writing, and I left school halfway through year 11.

I've passed one college subject (go Daniel).

I went through normal public school.

Your imprinting theory is an interesting idea and it's certainly compelling but I'm not sure how accurate it is. I was definitely displaying aspergers tendancies before I started school (sleep problems, sensory issues and I was a little professor - when I was 3 I used to insist on telling anybody who'd stand still long enough all about Thomas the Tank Engine). In addition I was definitely in my own little world through the first three years of my schooling. The only thing I remember from pre-school (Americans would call it Kindergarten) is the giant toy rocket-ship I used to play in. I do remember taking everything my teachers told me to do ridiculously seriously but this seems more likely to be the aspergers tendency to be overly controlled by rules then it does imprinting. I definitely had my own (somewhat extreme) personality before I started school.

Even if imprinting explains the single-mindedness, need to control conversation, rigid adherance to a set of arbitrary constraints and meaningless rituals, and difficulty expressing emotion (mine tended to be depressed and monotonous or sightly manic or both) it still would not explain other aspergers traits. I never saw any of my teachers shy away from bright lights or shreik and duck away from loud noises or have a panic attack over being forced to eat foods of a certain consistency or self stim. None of my teachers did anything to indicate sleep problems were in any way desirable. Teacher in primary school teachers model equal interest in a wide variety of topics, people with aspergers tend to have a few very specific interests. I also don't see how imprinting on teachers would cause poor hand-writing, clumsyness, allergies, aggressive outbursts or self-injury.

I think the sensory issues are the result of /expression of already existing/genetically determined Highly Sensitive/Introvert constitution/brain wiring, (which is particularly susceptible to "imprinting"/ learning /copying the teacher when the teacher is most vocal/visible, because peace/calm en-ables introvert learning whereas it disables extravert learning, because of different levels of stimulation needed for optimum brain activity in two ends of intro-extravert continuum, and extraverts learn better with more outside stimulation) .

The highly sensitive/introvert is very sensitive to noise, bright lights, colours, smells etc, any stimulation can become too much for them. Also more prone to allergies. And food and chemical intolerances can cause sleep problems, as can psychological disturbance which wouldn't be surprising in a sensitive persons exposure to average school even preschool.

However it's true that the personality type you describe seems to have existed before school started .
Will need to think about that.

It might be because you had/have already very pedagogic parents, whose parenting style was somewhat similar to a teachers? Who taught you how to read before you went to school?

Motor skill difficulties; I have just this minute remembered reading somewhere ages ago that researchers had found that learning to read before a certain age, different in each child, can disrupt motor skill acquisition. Something to do with competing development pathways, which need to happen in certain order.
Oh yes, i think it's a Montessori or Steiner or something school policy, to allow children to learn to read as late as want because teaching it, or even "encouraging" it with alphabet lessons etc, before the child is ready can disturb the skills acquisition process. And motor skills will be compromised. WOW. That SOOOO fits!!

PS: primary school teachers might teach lots of different subjects but NOt all at same time?!

It's not Montessori, i think it must be Steiner. Though Montessori definitely leave it up to child to show interest/capacity for next learning stage.

But i found what seems to me to be a very good article about how learning to read too early, and the enforced immobility of most schooling especially in first 7 years of life, can have serious impact on the development of motor skills. The Proprioceptive system, apparently.

http://www.joyfulnoisedaycare.com/sjohnson2.html

So it's not impossible that parents pushing/encouraging their child to learn to read, or even to talk, too early/pre-school might impact negatively on other/motor skills, Jayutimestwo. Was that the case for you? It definitely was for me. My mother still refers proudly to the letters she wrote on card and cut out for me to learn with, and how i was reading long before school, etc. Also my dad was a teacher, pedagogic style assured!!

Last edited by ouinon on 23 Dec 2007, 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It occurs to me that homeschooling might not provide full protection from this teacher-modelled social-skills impairment, because so many homeschooling parents are not only very often pedagogues themselves, but the childs experience of adults will still be of adults relating primarily to a child/children, although with fewer of the completely weird social behaviours/"broken" styles of social communication that occur in classrooms!
Children need to be reintegrated into society, see adults working with other adults. All children.

Grade school - 4 different ones, none closer than 2,500 miles from each other
Junior high (Middle school to the younger set). high, and college in a 5-mile radius
2nd degree - 2 tech schools, though in the same state..

I grew up before anyone was 'special'. Buses came in one size..
Believe it or not, in those days, 'weird' kids went to the same school as 'normal' kids, and got picked on, but were expected to do the same work. I was just 'strange', but no one knew why, even the psychiatrists. Managed to survive it. Wonder how I would have done with today's modern methods....

Neither of my parents were pedagogic. I wasn't exactly taught to read before school. My mother used to read to me alot (it was the only way she could get me to sit still for longer than 30 seconds ) but my learning to read was a side-affect rather than the main point.

Your competing pathways theory is interesting but wouldn't it logically follow that all children learning to read at age 5 would be similarly affected? Why then is there such a disparity between clumsyness in aspergers children and NT children?

I think you'll find that many aspergers traits start before school-age - another reason my (NT) mother read to me was that I'd happily sit on her lap for story time but the rest of the time I was not at all keen on physical affection. As I understand it, many aspergers children have such an aversion to being held and hugged that they learn not to cry (because when they cry they get held) before they even learn to talk. This certainly can't be a result of imprinting on teachers.

I'd agree that the majority of people with aspergers are introverts and highly sensitive and that highly sensitive introverts can be pushed into displaying aspergers traits but I don't think that aspergers is simply a matter of:
introvert + condescending teachers = aspergers

Age 4 - Regular Pre-School
age 5 - Public Primary school
age 6 - Public Primary school
age 7 - Public Primary school
age 8 - Public Primary school
age 9 - Public Primary school
age 10 - Public Primary school
age 11 - Public Primary school/start of public intermediate school
age 12 - Public intermediate school
age 13 - Public intermediate school/start of public high school
age 14 - some of public high school then left and started at an alternative education school [only went there for 9 weeks]
age 15 - Went to a 10 week course for people with mental health issues [I was depressed and had severe anxiety at the time]....then I took the rest of the year off, staying at home.
age 16 - 1 year course in computing and employment skills [although I did the employment skills only and then left].


thats all so far...although sometime in 2008, I am thinking of attending uni to study either a course in animal care and behavior or do foundation studies.