My theory about why we don't do small-talk

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WurdBendur
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09 Jan 2008, 1:42 am

draxen wrote:
WurdBendur wrote:
Surely you must have heard plenty of small talk, even if you spent most of your time watching TV. If you ever went any place in the presence of other people, you heard small talk.


When I walk down a busy road I hear the noise from dozens of cars going past, doesn't mean I pay attention to each and every one, try and deduce what type of engine it's got or if it's tuned or not. That's what small talk is to me, white noise to be filtered out for the most part.


That's exactly my point. You certainly don't pay attention to them, but could you then say that you have never heard them?

YowlingCat wrote:
I didn't hear small talk as a child. I was outdoors or in a classroom. Children were expected to be silent, and be away from adults. My grandfather never said a word to me until I was 21 years old.


That sounds abusive to me. Where were you kept that you never heard anybody else around the house or on the way to school? The thing is, most of the talking we hear (and learn from) as children is not directed at us. It doesn't matter if your grandfather never said a word to you because he must have spoken to others around you. You probably didn't worry too much about what he was saying, though.

marshall wrote:
It seems to me that a lot of people do just enjoy talking for the sake of talking and they are not really judging each other. They may be close friends where there would be no need to judge or infer social rank.


Well, I'm not sure we can say there's any conscious judgement of rank going on. It's just that NTs feel uncomfortable in silence. The need to make noise is probably a natural process that promotes social bonding. There are certainly judgements made about a person's character, especially upon an initial meeting, but whether there's any social rank involved, conscious or not, I can't say.


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09 Jan 2008, 2:07 am

I've never liked small talk or gossip. I would listen to someone speak just to spare me of the insanity of interacting only with myself. Other than that, I don't find any interest.

Typical conversation would be like:

*Phone Rings*

Me: Yes?

"Friend": Yo man, wassup?

M: Umm...what?

F: What's up, how you living?

M: Uhh...what? Living?

F: Don't you understand? What's wrong? How was your day?

M: My day? What the hell...where is this going?



I've never understood these conversations...even if I might be a bit interested in the person.


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YowlingCat
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09 Jan 2008, 2:29 am

YowlingCat wrote:
I didn't hear small talk as a child. I was outdoors or in a classroom. Children were expected to be silent, and be away from adults. My grandfather never said a word to me until I was 21 years old.


WurdBendur wrote:
That sounds abusive to me. Where were you kept that you never heard anybody else around the house or on the way to school? The thing is, most of the talking we hear (and learn from) as children is not directed at us. It doesn't matter if your grandfather never said a word to you because he must have spoken to others around you. You probably didn't worry too much about what he was saying, though.


I was expected to stay in my room, and at the dinner table, pretty much no talking was allowed, as my father wanted to listen to the news. And my grandfather rarely spoke to anyone. I walked to school alone, and when we moved, I sat at the back of the bus, alone. I went through all three years of high school sitting and eating lunch by myself. Neither of my parents had friends. So really, no small talk experience.



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09 Jan 2008, 4:04 am

I grew up in a quiet country hamlet, i.e. no hordes of people walking down the street; I was driven to school by car, didn't really interact with the other kids at school unless I had to, my parents don't do small talk either....

I had a best friend, but as far as I can recall we never bothered much with small talk - it was "taken as read".

Even now my friend on the phone will ask me questions like "What time did you get in?" or "Where have you been?" & I will go "Don't interrogate me! I don't understand why you keep asking me questions that can have no possible relevance to you!" because I really don't understand why he wants to know those things.

At work I have to make a real conscious effort to ask people how their holidays were, & never bother with the "weekend" question unless someone asks me first.

Still don't know why people ask this!



meeemoi
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29 May 2011, 9:54 pm

I think that before i learnt about asprgers I also had no idea what small talk was. I knew it was a good idea to ask questions to people as i was told people love to talk about themselves. But until recently I thought that by going deeper in to topics i was actually helping the conversation go some where. this failed miserably in groups and i didnt understand why. now im starting to get the idea but i think no matter what skills i try to learn i will never be able to go through more the 2 or 3 superficial conversations. I always rely on asking people questions about them selves which i have perfected but doesn't seem to give people the fulfillment they want.

I think that small talk is hard for 2 reasons.

1. the speed of the conversation and the need to reply fast

2. because we tend to learn about things deeply our minds know a lot about a few things. It is set in our brain that way and when we talk that is how it comes out. To change this at its foundation it think you would have to change the way you take in information to be more broad and less detailed.



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29 May 2011, 10:14 pm

If I don't have something meaningful to say, I'm not going to say anything. It's that simple.


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29 May 2011, 10:41 pm

Tortuga wrote:
I small talk to my young son all the time and he still doesn't like it. When he's had enough, he'll say, "Please stop talking now." :lol:

I tell him women like to talk all the time and he doesn't have to listen. He just has to look like he's paying attention. Since I explained it to him that way, he is tolerating more small talk. But, phone calls are still difficult for him. He cuts them off abruptly, "Thank-you very much and Good-Bye" ***click***** he hangs up.


That is pretty much how I am with the phone.



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30 May 2011, 12:56 am

The irony of course is that when we talk about the things that interest us, other people think that they are of no value. :roll:



obichris
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30 May 2011, 1:39 am

jonk wrote:
I don't have a theory about it. I just know it literally makes shivers run down my spine, at times. Like hearing rusty nails on chalkboard. It's a physical response. Some folks get knotted stomachs when under mental stress. Which makes it physical, too. I get chills when folks are doing small talk around me or trying to ply me with it. It's physical like that. So I avoid situations likely to do that to me. No parties, ever. No bars (never been to one.) Etc.

I remember a revelation of kinds, some years ago. I was outside in the woods I live in and there was a bunch of finches clustered in the trees. They were chittering to each other, incessantly. Suddenly, a cat walked up near one side of the area and I could easily notice how that side of the trees suddenly got quiet. Nothing. And the silence swept through the trees. I'm sure many of the finches couldn't see the cat, but they noticed the silence and got silent, themselves. It was rather quiet, pretty quickly. The revelation to me arrived because I noticed that the finches seemed to __need__ the chattering going on to feel comfortable, safe. The lack of it was stress. What hit me then was that perhaps most people __need__ small talk in order to feel comfortable. They produce it as part of a background that says, "I'm okay, you're okay." It's there to make them feel safe with each other, somehow.

And somehow it instead makes me feel uncomfortable, instead. Take a piece of wrapping paper and crumple it up around a mouse and it will nearly go berserk climbing the walls trying to get away. It __hurts__ the mouse to even hear it. Constant crumpling would drive a wild mouse insane. About how I'd feel with small talk.

I do enjoy discussions about something we are both interested in, though. Anything technical is really great. I kind of think of it as "looking at something else, in parallel." So one on one discussions often can be directed towards something and that's okay. Working on projects together is good. I don't know what all that means, but there it is.

Jon


I'm the same way, it physically hurts. I usually tell people to think of the anxiety of a fight or flight situation. That's the closest I can think of. Interesting thing to me is that it is the same feeling I get when I have sensory overload meltdowns.



obichris
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30 May 2011, 1:47 am

meeemoi wrote:
...But until recently I thought that by going deeper in to topics i was actually helping the conversation go some where. this failed miserably in groups and i didnt understand why.


People don't like to go deeper into topics when they bring them up in conversation? *scratches head* Why bring them up in the first place?

I'm not disagreeing with you. This actually explains a lot, I just never realized this. :?



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30 May 2011, 1:50 am

I was raised on Seinfeld and other sitcoms in the early 90s. I actually pay close attention to small talk on TV shows but still can't imitate when it's needed. We don't have a social brain. There's usually a whole network of areas of the brain that communicate to each other which does not activate in an autistic brain. It should light up when we make eye contact but it doesn't.
Most of us are constantly preoccupied with having information about our special interests in our head that it's hard to talk about anything else. With me I jump on opportunities to talk about what I know about. And I have found that when people are talking more for bonding I am really trying to give and receive information that may be useful. I don't care about getting close to people but to learn something knew and educate.
I can actually write some funny small talk dialogues in my stories. Over the years I have picked up that people talk a lot about food, some new story, a similar interest like music or sport, talk trash about celebrities, or basically make fun of people who are in a close proximity. I can write about it but I cannot imitate it. Why would I want to? It's such useless information and is a waste of precious mouth muscles.


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meeemoi
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30 May 2011, 2:04 am

obichris wrote:
meeemoi wrote:
...But until recently I thought that by going deeper in to topics i was actually helping the conversation go some where. this failed miserably in groups and i didnt understand why.


People don't like to go deeper into topics when they bring them up in conversation? *scratches head* Why bring them up in the first place?

I'm not disagreeing with you. This actually explains a lot, I just never realized this. :?


lol i dont know its just the impression i get i may be wrong. I think they like to jump from topic to topic and see which topics spark a reaction and then jump to another. Instead of talking about a common talking and killing the topic maybe they spread it out and save the topic for another time? In this case it actually would make sense.



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30 May 2011, 3:46 am

I hate small talk, never good at it, hate even to have to listen to other engage in it.

Recently I realized that when I try to make small talk, I over do it and (this is what I just realized) that I talk too much partly in order to not have to listen/follow/figure out what new to say. On some level I was solving my problem by making those I know not want to make small talk with me:)



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30 May 2011, 3:14 pm

Most people are very much afraid of seeming stupid. They sort of feel inferior, low self-esteem, stuff like that. So they get spooked if we go deep into a topic. Also they have no use for facts, no curiosity. Their purpose for talking at all is to feel liked or maybe validated.

Example: my sister-in-law and me, walking past a store display of orange dresses, my sil says, "I love orange, orange is so beautiful, don't you just love orange?"
Correct response: "Oh, orange is terrific, do you have anything orange?"
Wrong response: "Nothing rhymes with orange."
Why: Because small talk is about me and you, our stuff, our likes, our memories, etc. It's never about the topic, but you keep the topic going just on the surface.

Another example: My cousins and me, walking along the beach, one cousin says, "The tide is coming in." Another cousin says, "The tide is going out." They go back and forth for half an hour with this, giving reasons like "You can tell by how the sand looks" etc. I have nothing to contribute to this, no expertise on tides at all. Finally one of my cousins turns to me and says, "You're not very sociable, are you?"
Why: It's not about facts, it's never about facts. It's about joining in. And of course, if I had known the exact answer, something like "High tide was at 8:43 a.m." - that would have killed the entire conversation, because they can't cope with facts.

Barbara Walters wrote a book (I lent it and lost it) years ago, something about How to Have a Conversation With Anybody. She said one of the best things you can say is, "Really?" and/or "I didn't know that." That gives people a chance to feel good about knowing something and lets them talk about it some more. Also she talks about "hooks" - give others something to answer, like "... don't you?"

I hope I'm not giving you the impression that my conversations are all successful. Far from it. But I'm getting better. I like one-on-one the best. More than that, and I can't keep up with all the social cues going in all directions.



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30 May 2011, 4:30 pm

It seems to me that most conversations are not about what I think they are about.
Say someone mentions that they are going to be taking classes at another location, 40 miles away, and mentions the drive, cost of gas, etc.
I think it's about the drive, cost of gas, new campus. NO, it was about:
I am starting something hard
I am concerned about how things will go
I want you to show you care about me (not deliver facts or solutions)

In some organizational communications classes one of the motivation for communication was "impression management". Looking back on many conversations (some of which were really bizarre, like a co worker talking about beating her kids, an acquaintance talking about how she tortured dogs when she was a child and always wondered what it would be like to kill someone, a 70 year old neighbor woman talking about having sex with men that follow her home from the gas station, a female boss talking about how she poops her pants fairly often), I tried to frame these past conversations in the "impression management" motivation, and it kind of fits, that in essence when people are talking, they are talking about themselves and how they want you to see them, or what they want you to give them, (respect, fear, pity).

I also wonder if the above mentioned conversations, in addition to hundreds of others that included bizarre situations, was about the fact that these people picked up on something about my reaction to things and were just having a party watching me freak out.

Who knows, the less I interact, the happier I am:)



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30 May 2011, 4:49 pm

backagain wrote:
Who knows, the less I interact, the happier I am:)


I interact, I give them this face -.-