Why is aspergers syndrome grouped with autism?

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nominalist
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12 Jan 2008, 3:09 pm

AspieDave wrote:

Not only those. In discussing OCD and Tourette's with one my my son's doctors, she made the observation about how the two are centered in neighboring brain regions. I said, "So you're saying OCD and Tourette's are basically the same thing, one just centered in different areas?" and she nodded and said, "NOW you sound like a psychiatrist." Since she was one I think she meant that as a compliment.... :twisted:

Because of the neurological similarities (and responses to similar pharmacologies), some people use the term "obsessive-compulsive spectrum disorders" to encompass OCD, Tourettes, the spectrum of autisms, nonverbal learning disability, ADHD (sometimes), etc.

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nominalist
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12 Jan 2008, 3:14 pm

Sora wrote:

I read a cool article about a guy with down's syndrome who was very much like that. He was of above average intelligence if I remember correctly, went to school and had a good social life. He had many of the other symptoms of down's syndrome though and also didn't have neurotypical features, so when people met him, they always assumed he was a 'typical' case until he talked to them.

Many people make the same incorrect assumption about Down syndrome as the make about autism: that all people with these conditions have intellectual disabilities.

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12 Jan 2008, 3:56 pm

nominalist wrote:

Many people make the same incorrect assumption about Down syndrome as the make about autism: that all people with these conditions have intellectual disabilities.

Yes, I was shocked when my biology teacher talked about down's syndrome and continuously used the word 'moronic' to explain it. (Although I admit she uses this word for about any possible neurological difference.) I was glad she didn't start on autism. She didn't want to hear any of what I wanted to say about people with down's syndrome and how she can't mean to say they're 'moronic'!

I'm exactly in this position too now. My school gives me bad behavioural grades for autistic issues, so I'm now truley considering going there and explaining it. Against all professional advice, I didn't want to do it at first, but now I'm not sure. I wonder how my biology teacher of all people will react. Maybe she'll stop being keen on saying 'moronic' to everything, because she believes I'm terribly bright but terribly lazy. She's a teacher and she teaches people such things as that all people with this or that are something definite. It's not right, she shouldn't generalise when she is a rather clever person herself and is capable of knowing better.

It's the same issue with the connection between AS and the rest of the spectrum isn't it. Everybody thinks of 'typical' cases, although there are few if even any. So when talking about classic autism, people think about 'typical' cases and then also see how different from them a person can be and forget to see how close the underlying issues resemble each other.

My therapist told me that if she were to put all her cases into one room, we'd most likely all dislike each other, because we're all so extremely different - no matter what typical social impairments or else we have in common. (Hehe, my autism therapist is cool.)

nominalist
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12 Jan 2008, 4:10 pm

Sora wrote:

The term moron once described people who are now referred to as having mild mental retardation or mild intellectual disorder. However, "moron" has not been used by experts in decades. It is generally just an insult - like idiot and imbeclie (which also referred to the intellectually disabled at one time). I am surprised that a biology teacher would use such a word.

Quote:

My therapist told me that if she were to put all her cases into one room, we'd most likely all dislike each other, because we're all so extremely different - no matter what typical social impairments or else we have in common. (Hehe, my autism therapist is cool.)

I once opened an autism spectrum room on an online chat service. One person came in and was surprised that, as he said, "You sound so intelligent." When I told him that I have been a college professor for 28 years, he just left the room.

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12 Jan 2008, 4:33 pm

zendell wrote:

Do you think adults with autistic disorder are underdiagnosed or just adults with AS? It seems like lower functioning people would have been easy to recognize whereas AS people blend in enough to not get diagnosed.

Autistic disorder doesn't mean low functioning, it just means non-AS autism. The differences are about speech early in life, they don't necessarily continue on an outward level to be obvious differences.

And, yes, despite that I know many people labeled low-functioning who went undiagnosed. Autism was not in the DSM until 1980. In 1971 what is now called "regressive autism" was considered a form of early-onset schizophrenia. Many people I know who were undiagnosed were diagnosed instead with an intellectual disability or schizophrenia or both. "Kanner's autism" used to be almost synonymous with "higher functioning" at one point.

Aside from that, assuming that "severity" determines diagnosis rate doesn't show a lot of awareness of how cultures can differ over time and place. People assume that the range of which people get labeled with medical-like conditions has stayed stable over time. It hasn't.

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12 Jan 2008, 4:40 pm

Sora wrote:

nominalist wrote:

Many people make the same incorrect assumption about Down syndrome as the make about autism: that all people with these conditions have intellectual disabilities.

Yes, I was shocked when my biology teacher talked about down's syndrome and continuously used the word 'moronic' to explain it. (Although I admit she uses this word for about any possible neurological difference.) I was glad she didn't start on autism. She didn't want to hear any of what I wanted to say about people with down's syndrome and how she can't mean to say they're 'moronic'!

although ill give you she was probably being a little crass in her diction...

"moron" is indicative of IQ... it pertains to a specific low IQ number... just as "idiot" does... people with DS do have lower IQs... im not too sure on definitions atm... but she could technically be correct in saying people with DS are morons.. but i would never teach nor talk about DS the way you describe she was doing... as it is offensive.

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nominalist
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12 Jan 2008, 4:45 pm

Sedaka wrote:

"moron" is indicative of IQ... it pertains to a specific low IQ number... just as "idiot" does... people with DS do have lower IQs... im not too sure on definitions atm... but she could technically be correct in saying people with DS are morons.. but i would never teach nor talk about DS the way you describe she was doing... as it is offensive.

Most people with Down syndrome have IQs of less than 70, but not all. Some have normal IQs, especiallly those with the mosaic subtype.

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12 Jan 2008, 4:48 pm

all breeds of dogs are considered to be one species... and there are several cases of "ring species" (ex: some salamanders in CA and some pan-global arctic birds) where there is vast phenotypic variation across individuals within a species* (*or not, depending on a multitude of definitions)...

consideration for variation is a very complex matter. where do you draw the line? why do we need lines?

i dont think these issues will be resolved until the mechanisms for these "differences" are defined.

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12 Jan 2008, 4:50 pm

nominalist wrote:

Sedaka wrote:

Most people with Down syndrome have IQs of less than 70, but not all. Some have normal IQs, especiallly those with the mosaic subtype.

just looked up moron again... it's IQ of 50-70... so that could technically be used fo DS... but as you said, some do have higher IQs, which i was not sure of...

but still... i would never teach that sort of use of language in a classroom like that

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12 Jan 2008, 5:07 pm

MisterHeron wrote:

boden wrote:

These questions seem far to complex to be lumped into groups like "spectrum" analysis which innately suggests a commonality limiting specific analysis of a individual's variances. Is it that the average mind is incapable of comprehending infinite unrelated variance? Thus the oversimplification.

It's just a categorization for similar problems, with sorting in that group. A lot of doctors think there is no difference between High Functioning Autism and Aspergers Syndrome.

Not necessarily, one of the diagnostic criteria for Asperger's is that unlike HFA (or autism entirely) the symptoms do not occur in the early developmental years.

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12 Jan 2008, 5:30 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

Not necessarily, one of the diagnostic criteria for Asperger's is that unlike HFA (or autism entirely) the symptoms do not occur in the early developmental years.

Not really.

They just don't have to. Major difference.

nominalist
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12 Jan 2008, 6:06 pm

It depends on which set of diagnostic criteria one uses.

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12 Jan 2008, 6:18 pm

Becauase it's the same thing, just in varying degrees of severity.

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13 Jan 2008, 12:54 am

I used to ask this question all the time but since my second son was diagnosed with HFA, I've done a bit more research and I understand.

It's on my blog;

http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com ... utism.html

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13 Jan 2008, 1:53 am

nominalist wrote:

Sora wrote:

Many people make the same incorrect assumption about Down syndrome as the make about autism: that all people with these conditions have intellectual disabilities.

A friend who has been fighting Depression (spectrum) decided to confide in a close friend who had called to see why she seemed withdrawn recently. The close friend tells her to be sure she does it right the first time because it is cruel to put friends through the trauma of multiple attempts.

I know this is Humans' Nature, but still don't comprehend this. How is all depression suicide or attemped? Why are all Downs 'morons'? or all autistics head-bangers?

Is it that neuroelitism where everything is 'Black and White'

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13 Jan 2008, 2:40 am

gbollard wrote:

You UNDERSTAND? Great, but after reading your blog, I am more confused. I do like the star concept. Would it be like the multiaxial display at the end of the reasonably good Aspy test?

One diagnoser said I can't be AS as a female another said it is all IQ and I can't have HFA, another said I can't be AS because I didn't use sentences by age 3 and HFA is a disorder of childhood. The doc that diagnosed me as a preschooler just died so it is no longer "diagnosed in childhood" and cannot be any form of autism when past developmental age. And NOT Asperger's Autism. Besides, I have developed a fascimile of eye contact, gestures and tonality.

I can get ((NOT keep)) jobs. I won't list dozens of examples here, just demonstrating my confusion about the diagnosers' confusion. I have come to realize I never had 'high' intelligence even when I had a high IQ. I was good at tests and had an eidetic memory. Now I am lucky to break 90. Which is not a complaint.

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