accepting NT behavior, but not AS behavior

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CityAsylum
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25 Jan 2008, 1:05 pm

whatamess wrote:

I am trying to figure out why it is that when NTs lie, make stupid mistakes and make your life miserable, they expect a response of "it's ok, you're trying to do your best...it's not your fault you're stupid and worthless, I should have patience for you because in your heart you attempted to do what's best, even though it was worthless, continuosly worthless...and to top it off, in order to cover your behind, you lied without regard for the consequences..."

But, if you are an AS, and get sick and tired of their ridiculous behavior, and have a major meltdown, you are shot down for doing so?

In the non-Asperger world there is a general agreement that you cover each other's backs, no matter what the cost. When those of us who could have done it right in the first place lose it out of sheer frustration, and then explain how and why basic projects completely failed, we get attacked for speaking the simple truth.

For members of the "Right Planet", incompetence is expected and indulged, and truth and logical efficiency are considered subversive.

Personally, I'm proud to be on the Wrong Planet.

whatamess
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25 Jan 2008, 1:10 pm

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'd rather be honest and wrongplanet, than cover people's butt and NT right planet...Again, not all NTs do this, but those who do, somehow think there is something wrong with us, not them. No, thank you. Leave me alone and I'll at least have peace in my heart. Oops...they probably do to, although they know they do this type of injustice.

Goche21
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25 Jan 2008, 1:48 pm

CityAsylum wrote:

Goche21 wrote:

I don't see why everyone is getting so riled up about me deffending NT's. If you found a thread like "Why do all aspies ((insert close minded generalization here))" how would you approach it?

Basically just the way I did in response to your characterization that Aspies are excuse-makers; I explained to you concisely that we are not all like your very disturbed brother.

Also, look at how you worded this:

Goche21 wrote:

I think it's worse when an aspie does it because they use AS as an excuse.

You could have said "some of them use AS as an excuse", but, to use your own words, you chose a "close minded generalization."

So, what's your excuse?

I said *an* aspie, singular ^_^ not NTs, plural. I'm simply asking people not to generalize, I never said all aspies do it, I said some do, and it's true. I also acknoleged the fact that this guy at work was completely out of line, but that's not an NT trait.

CityAsylum
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25 Jan 2008, 2:08 pm

Goche21 wrote:

I said *an* aspie, singular ^_^ not NTs, plural. I'm simply asking people not to generalize, I never said all aspies do it, I said some do, and it's true.

Goche21 (earlier) wrote:

I think it's worse when an aspie does it because they use AS as an excuse

Uh, "they" makes it plural, and a generalization. "Some of them" would have been a fairer way to put it. And remember, you asked.

Just a bad grammar issue, I guess. All is forgiven

Goche21
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25 Jan 2008, 2:11 pm

CityAsylum wrote:

Goche21 wrote:

I said *an* aspie, singular ^_^ not NTs, plural. I'm simply asking people not to generalize, I never said all aspies do it, I said some do, and it's true.

Goche21 (earlier) wrote:

I think it's worse when an aspie does it because they use AS as an excuse

Uh, "they" makes it plural, and a generalization. "Some of them" would have been a fairer way to put it. And remember, you asked.

Just a bad grammar issue, I guess. All is forgiven

I use they because it's easier to type the he/she ^^; I know it's not grammicly correct, but I may even refere to someone on here as they as to not offend them by saying the wrong gender.

whatamess
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25 Jan 2008, 3:40 pm

OK, I give up. Sorry, I should've explained only to AS people, I think they understand. Obviously my wording is incorrect for this NT, although I again read what I say and cannot for the life of me make out why he feels I am saying ALL NTs do this...

CityAsylum
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25 Jan 2008, 3:51 pm

whatamess wrote:

You shouldn't have to apologize - NTs are in the vast majority, and pretty much run the world (badly). What you said was very clear and made complete sense. We have to twist ourselves into pretzels everyday so as not to set NTs off everywhere else; should we have to do it here, too?

People who identify as NT and then get on WrongPlanet to whine about how misunderstood NTs are have probably missed the point.

tweety_fan
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25 Jan 2008, 7:36 pm

trues, the whole point of this thread as far as i know was to ask the question of why is it that some people can get away with things and turn anyone who tells the truth into the jerk?

whatamess
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25 Jan 2008, 7:58 pm

goche21...

I'm not picking on you, but I hope your are able to see that in my sentence I never said all NTs lie...I only said when they do... This is our problem with communication...I never stated NTs or all NTs lie, but you took what I said and added words I did not to it.

This sounds just like the accusations against me right now...where I have said something
and the NT adds his own words to it and blames me for what I said...instead of blaming themselves for adding words I did not.

Again I'm not angry at you because you have at least been honest to show me
the words you added and your interpretation.

CRACK
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25 Jan 2008, 8:16 pm

whatamess wrote:

I am at my witts end.

I am trying to figure out why it is that when NTs lie, make stupid mistakes and make your life miserable, they expect a response of "it's ok, you're trying to do your best...it's not your fault you're stupid and worthless, I should have patience for you because in your heart you attempted to do what's best, even though it was worthless, continuosly worthless...and to top it off, in order to cover your behind, you lied without regard for the consequences..."

But, if you are an AS, and get sick and tired of their ridiculous behavior, and have a major meltdown, you are shot down for doing so?

That is probably it right there. It isn't so obvious when somebody lies, manipulates, and deceives you, or whatever. But a meltdown will attract lots of unwanted attention.

And who is it you are interacting with on a daily basis that "lies, makes stupid mistakes and makes your life miserable"

??

whatamess
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25 Jan 2008, 9:43 pm

ah, the people are all over the darn place where I live...
as soon as I return to the US, I'll be making a website explaining all the crazy
things that happen here...if you think the US is bad for AS people, you can't imagine
the horror it is to live where I live...it truly is unbelievable.

CityAsylum
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25 Jan 2008, 9:52 pm

Eeew, you found a place where people are worse than Americans? So much for my dream that anywhere but here would be more civilized!

Where on Earth are you, if I may ask?

Who_Am_I
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26 Jan 2008, 8:13 am

Goche21 wrote:

Who_Am_I wrote:

Goche21: NO, this is another "The OP is venting because they are fed up with NTs treating them like sh** because they don't understand them, while at the same time expecting Aspies to understand and accept every little annoying thing about them" topic. It's a fair complaint.

I'm curious as to what you mean by "correcting them".

Also, AS is a neurodevelopmental condition; the problems are hardwired into our brains, so, to some extent, the way we behave is not our fault. Saying so is like saying that, for example, the NT fixation on being social and people-impressing is their fault.
That doesn't mean that behaviour can't be changed, it just means that certain behaviours that irk the hell out of you might be incredibly hard for us to stop.

I mean, like take a kid at my school. He was AS and we got along fairly well on a day to day basis, except when he wouldn't do what he was supposed to. Maybe it's be when we were joking, and he'd say something hurtful, or be too rough, if I'd say cut it out, the blame would fall on AS. When a teacher tried to tell him to turn in homeowrk, the blame would fall on AS.

Then there is my brother, who sexually abused me, lied about it, and would watch as I got punished, hit, and yelled at on a day to day basis. He said 'he can't help it, he has Asperger's syndrome'. or even when it came to chores 'I forgot, I have asperger's syndrome'.

My point wasn't that NT's aren't fair in understanding, I never said we weren't. It's completely true that sometimes we/I don't appreciate what this does to you. My point was simply that this behavior isn't in all NT's, nor is it contained to only NT's.

Ok, fair point. (Sorry if anything I write below isn't coherent, I'm approaching my 33rd consecutive sleepless hour...)
Did he realise that he was being hurtful/too rough? We can have trouble reading these things, and perhaps what looked like excuse-making was simply a reason.
Not turning in the homework could have been due to problems with organisational skills. This is a serious problem area in many Aspies. If it was a point-blank refusal to turn it in as opposed to forgetfulness, that would seem more like excuse-making if he blamed his AS.

Your brother sounds like one of those people who prove that having AS doesn't preclude being a total a***hole....

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logitechdog
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26 Jan 2008, 9:10 am

Goche21 wrote:

Then there is my brother, who sexually abused me, lied about it, and would watch as I got punished, hit, and yelled at on a day to day basis. He said 'he can't help it, he has Asperger's syndrome'. or even when it came to chores 'I forgot, I have asperger's syndrome'.

Correct me if I am wrong here Goche21, It sound's like your parent's are giving him too much attention? Are they not giving you any or much? & everything that comes out of your mouth they seem not to take it as the truth? as for your brother sexually abusing you, if he has done it more than once, you should tell someone about it other than your parents, if they not going to listen to you, & your saying the turth about it. Because I don't care if he has got As, if you feel like your parent's are not protecting you, that can effect how you are when your older...

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Goche21
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26 Jan 2008, 9:17 am

logitechdog wrote:

Goche21 wrote:

I've explained this more then once. He did this for five years, starting when I was 13. I didn't have a lock on my door to keep him out, and it took until I went to the police for a latch-lock to appear. I brought tapes of him talking about what he did, but they didn't listen to them, and not to mention I wasn't the only onesaying it. Girls I never met ((different school)) pressed the same charges only to have them dismissed, one was seven years old! Apparently, the fact he had asperger's syndrome, it made it impossible for him to have done it.

Now I'm 19 and moved out. It's sad because I know he'll rape some poor woman one day, and when he gets caught he'll be sent to jail instead of getting the mental help he needs.

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26 Jan 2008, 9:25 am

Yes it's sad really it's a failing in the system's really... Just hope your not putting yourself down about it, as you tryed your best...

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