Does AS exist?

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The thing is, people with Asperger's now would have been able to receive a diagnosis in the past, since the DSM-III at least (1980), which had Childhood Autism and Atypical PDD (not just Infantile Autism).

Tantam proposed Asperger's as it is now in the US for inclusion into the DSM-IV, which was based on a subset of those who already had a diagnosis of PDD, just not Infantile Autism.

It's really a superfluous label.

(Then you have Europe, which uses a different definition of Asperger's in many places.)

It shows how broken humanity is that they have to define a disorder just to understand that people might be different, the problem is though that there are still different people out there who are not on the autistic spectrum, if we keep diagnosis a requirement to help different people, then those guys will always be punished...

I think it is importent but perhaps we need a better categorization? It also seems that the people diagnosed with it are quite varied, the DSM allows to have very different people with the same diagnosis, what's the result? The NTs will think some of the guys that were diagnosed AS are faking it or that they are being over diagnosed. If the diagnosis keeps losing credibility out of it not being too clear, it will not work, will it?



I would personally like that science would make it so we could actually understand your son much better than with a tagging him for a bunch of traits he presented. A lot of people in these forums claim it is genetic or that the brain is wired differently, if that was the case then that could be the diagnosis criteria, but it seems that there's a lack of study in that regard? If not, please somebody correct me and send me links to studies showing how AS people's brains differentiate from NT, I am quite interested in learning so.


I don't want the current tag to be replaced with nothing, but I wish it could be replaced with stuff more elaborate, and less ambiguous. So that those who call themselves Aspies right now could be understood a little better than they are now...

well, we're still doing research, and proving and disproving various facts and notions on Aspergers'. We could call it 'George', but whatever, there's too much congruence of symptoms and experiences. Whatever the name, we know we have something in common.

Lets call it something from science fiction.

^^^Me an a buddy of mine are working on it!

yes you can stick someone with aspergers under an fmri and it will show major physical difference to an nt brain

I agree there, humanity is prejudicial and we need diagnosis to be understood, sadly, but as equinn says, autistic people, especially children need a diagnosis in order for parents and schools to treat them properly, without it, how parents could understand them? How it would be for them, if we expect them to be just as any NT child and punish them because they physically can't?

Anyway, I think you might want an absolute answer to this, and a clear picture, in order to convince you the level of importance of a diagnosis, however, I don't believe in absolutes, nature is very complex and we as human beings are just catching up with what we can and we tend to identify, in the scientific sense, so Asperger's is a label (we label everything, so it is part of human nature to label all we find and discover) made by identifing traits that causes problems coping with things that other people is normal, coping with their environment and being unable to understand, I understand that much of things related to mental disorders and labeled as such are related to culture and social structures that have been defined by human beings, however, I don't see that a reason to lose the importance and credibility of such studies but mostly to increase and expand such studies.

The human brain is so complex that there are many things that are still mysteries for scientists today, but still, they try to solve the puzzle as accurate as they can, even if knowing it can't be 100%. As the complexity of nature is, I don't think we can have an absolute answer to everything, that is why many people refuse to believe certain things and start refuting them, because they expect a concrete and absolute answer to everything, I'm sorry if most don't see it and don't accept it, because I don't believe there is an absolute answer to anything.

It does seem that way sometimes, doesn't it?

It's not like we can just take a blood test and know =/

There are certain "traits" that all AS patients share. Some are more than others, yet we all have them to a degree.

Actually, if that were true, they could take it out of the DSM and put it exclusively in the neurology sciences...they can't. So far they have seen some neurological traits in brain structure but most of them are for Kanners autism and even those are not ALL people with Kanners. That is the mystery. They have done MRI on sibs and had them all show neurological anomalies and yet some of them have no autism traits and others do....why ? So far, all the tests have shown that some autistics have anomalies and some with similar function levels do not...why? That is the current findings in research. The importance is not that they have found a "place/places" in all autistic brains that account for traits, but that they haven't. This would indicate that there is more then one things accounting for autism and related traits .

One thing I personally find interesting is that my BF had MS and has yearly MRI's yet his neurologist admits to knowing nothing about autism . All my BF's AS traits,(and he has many) are judged to be part of his MS. It would be prudent for psychiatrist and neurologists to have a more open dialogue about autism but.....I doubt it will ever happen. Specialization appears to be the "trend" in science.

Asperger's is a syndrome meaning it is a cluster of "symptoms" or "traits" depending on your viewpoint. I think it is real because 1. I was diagnosed with it and 2. The syndrome has been recognized and observed in the general population, more than one person exhibits the same cluster of "symptoms" and thus, has earned the diagnoses.

Probably we are bunch of unsocial shy weirdoes who suffered from low self-esteem and bullying and psychiatries are capitilizing on the label of Asperger's synrdrome.

I really have big doubts about AS that I barely believe in it :
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt56043.html

Read my doubts

For one it would seem completely ridculous to say that those who havn't been labelled with an Neurological condition as an 'NT', as from what I've read the brain throughout anyones lifetime can alter dramatically.
We all have varying levels of different chemicals in our brains, and often I think within the autism/neurological community some people actively are aggressive about NTs thiking that they have no worth or that they can't 'understand' the 'pain' of having Aspergers, which is stupid as 1 in 4 people each year suffer from a mental illness, which suggests that at some point in anybodies life that they wouldn't be able to function because of a chemical imballance in their brains.
Which means that at some point they will struggle to function to some extent.
Also just having a label has not helped me. Focusing to much on the label is problematic, for one if you're honest with everyone it can really put a downer on the night if someone objects to the label. Many people dislike labels as they believe it justifies behaviour that they would probably do, and don't see why you should get an easy ride when life is hard for alot of people and labels make everything seem like a bigger problem than it might be.
People can struggle to empathise with a label, and the more important things is the actual condition.
For instance I recognise that I am prone to ADD/ADHD behaviours at times, but the label isn't important, what is important is my own difficulties. Like yeah i do forget alot of important things, I do take on too much, I do act a prat, I am inclined to 'putting my foot init', essays in general I find hard to start and keep on track once started, when talking I am prone to being tangential, my temper can be incredible, filling in forms pi/sses me off, completing the countless tasks is hard and etc.
But if I think of it as a label and say to my teachers or my friends 'I have trouble because I am AD/HD. Or I am not being rude because that's me, I'm being rude because I have Aspergers qualities, and that is a conition therefore I am exempt from all consequences' I loose my own identity, and then open myself up to alot of stigma and hassle.
Alot of people have very rigid ideas of both conditions. They believe myths or believe the label is only justified if you were the sort of kid that was always looking for trouble or that you always have to be hyper, or that you have to have to have acted like a sociopath in the making, or that it's just because of E numbers, or that your parents are bad, rather than your parents perhaps had a lot on nd couldn't cope with their own lifes as well.
And also bear in mind alot of people who don't have the label have the same problems.
And some more stuff about my own exoerience- there was one particular situationwhere I was at a work meal and this idiot woman who was the mum of a friend/work colleague began introducing me n the most patronising way 'This is Sam, he has Aspergers. Sam this guy really loves Morrissey and music tell himall about Morrissey! Oh isn't Sam adorable.'
this made me feel like a pet, also it made me feel like there was this expectation that I was going to be a genius.
The same person would talk down at me and act like I couldn't decide for myself what was best for me, which yeah granted I am prone to doing reckless things at times which to others makes it seem like i am insane/incapable.

In summary use the label as a reference for you own condition but don't let it define you. In some situations it will allow you concesions or extra help (like medication for depression or Attention Deficit Problems), but if you go around asking for too many concessions or just expecting forgiveness everytime you do something wrong 'because you can't help it.' then the label may as well be void because you're not learn to overcome the condition or making use of it, you're just learning to be helpless.
Einstein didn't have those labels, but if he were born nowadays he may have been labelled as whatever whilst growing p, and just think- would that have helped him? Maybe, but only if he thought about it in the right way.

My son is anything BUT shy. He just doesn't understand the complexities of give and take in a conversation.

Many talk ad nauseum about their interests and it's one-sided. This is beyond shy.

^^maybe severe autism exists ....but what about the mild autism called AS?