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corroonb
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03 Aug 2008, 11:59 am

anbuend wrote:
corroonb wrote:
Haven't most of us learned what is socially acceptable by now?


Well... not necessarily.

And even those of us who know, it's not good enough if we can't access that knowledge when we need to.

I wrote something about it in this post (where I also actually discussed my tiered system in less detail than here).

Here's what I wrote about a lot of this. If you're confused what "spoons" means, go to the post I wrote and click through to the thing about "spoon theory", then read my adaptation of it ("colored" spoons). Anyway here's what I wrote:

Back to the colored spoons.

Many autistic people, like me, are busy juggling a lot of spoons of a lot of colors just to do some of the really basic stuff. A lot of the things covered in this book seem frankly well over my head. I may be able to understand them in the abstract, but it would be very difficult to put many of them into practice. Not because I’m a lazy, unmotivated slacker, but because of this whole thing about spoon conservation:

I’m using a fair amount of spoons just understanding (for some senses of “understanding”) my surroundings, moving my body around, and avoiding some of the absolute most destructive, dangerous, or inconsiderate things I could do: Hitting my head, physically hurting other people, screaming, taking my clothes off, or urinating in public.

Telling my eyes or ears to scan around for human beings takes a large number of spoons. Telling my abstraction and memory to call up a long list of rules for being around human beings costs even more.

These things are not sustainable. They’re not always even possible. As the song goes, “It’s a nice idea… in theory.” In reality, I’m going to walk past people without noticing that they’re people at all. In reality, if I’m walking on foot, I’m going to possibly walk straight into people and be unable to avoid it. In reality, I’m not going to necessarily recognize and respond to a “familiar” voice calling my name in the midst of chaos.

I’ve seen a lot of emphasis lately not just in this book, on learning social graces of various kinds. Aside from being a very culture-specific thing to learn in many instances, the practical application of these social graces is an impossibility or only partial possibility for many people. I can understand learning to apply them if you’re capable and willing to apply them, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowing them. But I do worry about the situation of the many people who won’t be able to apply them. Are people who to the best of our ability juggle tons of spoons for little increments of typical activities, going to be simply the rude, lazy, inconsiderate kinds of auties, who won’t accept responsibility and use autism as an excuse?

I know that’s not what I am, at any rate, because I know that I am always learning and growing, and I know that I am doing my best at the spoon-juggling, being as efficient and frugal with my spoons as I can. But I wonder what attitudes towards people like me are going to be. Are they going to be simply dismissal, or will there be some understanding there of the fact that many of us are going to look at books like this and go “Wow, uh, I’m too busy juggling the basics to have nearly enough abstraction-spoons for this”? Is there going to be some hierarchy where people who can do all these things are better? I hope not.


I see. For some it seems that this social minefield is more difficult to navigate than for others. I have always acted to a certain extant based on what I was taught as a child and have learned as an adult. I can understand how something so complex and senseless would be difficult for those with autism. I have autism but I adapted well as a child and was not diagnosed until I was 23 as a result of my imitative abilities. I sometimes feel like a fraud for this but I know this is only a survival mechanism that has served me well.



mysterious_misfit
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03 Aug 2008, 12:08 pm

All this talk of spoons is making me crave some ice cream... LOL

Anyway, that is a good description of availability of brain power. If I'm too busy, I can't remember to do something even simple, like turn my head to look at someone who is addressing me. So I could write an SOP that says, always stop and look at a person who addresses me.



pandd
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03 Aug 2008, 12:23 pm

mysterious_misfit wrote:
pandd wrote:
Heck yes. I even have one for entering unfamiliar lecture halls (so I do not 'pause' and cause a hold-up in the doorway).


Do you mind sharing it?

First I know what I need to do (get to a seat), then identify why this causes me to come to a stop in the doorway (I have no idea how the unfamiliar room is laid out nor where there will be free seats), and from this I form the linguistic plan.

Essentially the problem is I need to stop and take stock to figure out where to go and sit down, but the doorway is narrow and no one can get past if I stop there. The rule is that I will keep moving through the doorway and take stock (of the room, where to sit and how to navigate there) once I am out of the way of others entering through the door.

The practical step to achieve this is to keep moving until I can 'step aside' out of the flow of foot-traffic.

Here's where it gets 'contingent'; when I walk through doorway I will (if possible) attempt to turn to the right, ifthere is something in the way or the room layout prevents this, and so I cannot step right, then the next option is to step left instead, if neither is an option, I move forward until I can step sideways to either the left or right. Once I have stepped out of the flow of foot-traffic, only then should I stop moving and 'get my bearings'.

So long as I remind myself of all these steps by practicing them through in my head first (before I get to the door), I'm usually able to get in past the doorway and step out of the flow of traffic so I can look around the room to see where free seats are and figure out how the best path to take to get to them, without causing a nuisance (to others walking in behind me) and making a scene of myself.



Anemone
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03 Aug 2008, 12:41 pm

Hostessing.

There are guides to hostessing in etiquette books, but probably the easiest SOP is to get a trusted friend or ally to be your hostess. Then you can just hide behind the baby.

You need to get the room(s) you're hosting the party in ready in advance. Food and drink for adults and kids; a safe place to plunk the kids if you're having other babies over. Also plans for pets. It needs to be decorated a bit - apparently chips go in bowls and not on the table in a bag! Who knew?

When the guests arrive, it is the job of the hostess to meet and greet everyone at the door, and attend to coats etc. Make everyone feel welcome. With my parents, my mother meeted and greeted, and my father got the alcoholic drinks for the adults who wanted them (I guess that made him the bartender). He'd make sure everyone got started off with one drink if they wanted it, then after that they were on their own for refills, but he made sure they knew where everything was.

If you're having a meal, give everyone an hour or so ahead of time to arrive and settle in.

If you're not sure if your guests will hit it off, invite more to increase the chances of good conversation. (And it's easier to hide behind a crowd). My parents have one blow-out party a year where they invite 120 people and hope only 75 show up (that's all the house will hold). Then they don't have to do as much work entertaining their guests. Of course for a one-year-old's birthday, you will probably invite fewer guests, but I suppose it all depends on your budget and social/celebrity status! (For that many guests for a one-year-old's birthday, you would probably also want a photographer, plus pretentious gift bags for the guests, plus a write-up in InStyle or a society magazine! Let's assume you're saner than that. :wink: )

Keep it simple, and have fun!



cyberscan
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03 Aug 2008, 1:44 pm

I whole life around the NT world revolves around running scripts. I too have a room entry script as well as an exit one.

1. Enter area.

2. Do a few seconds worth of observation of the area.

{

A. What are the people doing.
{
Do like them if appropriate
}
B. If communication occurring
{
Ascertain seriousness of topic.
If small talk
{
Note duration of each persons turn.
Join in if invited.
Talk only about the same amount of time the others.
}
If serious topic
{
Join in in if invited
If you know about topic
{
Make contribution
}
else ask questions to learn more if interested
}

}

}

3 if time to leave Run leaving script

This usually gets me by in most cases.


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Sora
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03 Aug 2008, 2:34 pm

I found it. (Was looking for it.) I am not sure if it helps, but WikiHow has some articles on how to be a good hostess, how to organise a party or dinner and more.

I typed in hostess and these results came up. http://www.wikihow.com/Special:LSearch?fulltext=Search&search=hostess There are also quite some results on small talk (which may be necessary): http://www.wikihow.com/Special:LSearch?fulltext=Search&search=small+talk


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2ukenkerl
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03 Aug 2008, 2:44 pm

corroonb wrote:

I usually find it easy to adapt my behaviour to a new social environment. I usually observe what "normal" people are doing and imitate them. If they are doing something contrary to my ethics, then I do not copy this. I find flexibility can go a long way in such situations. As long as you obey the law, then there is not a lot you can do that is "wrong". Hurting people is against the law and could get you in trouble.

For me my ultimate guide is my own sense of ethics which is tempered by an awareness that obeying the law is a necessity and can't be ignored.


YOU MISSED THE POINT entirely! The point is that some build cabals, almost like on survivor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_%28TV_series%29 ). Their goal is to steal any money, praise, or reputation they can! I have to do SOMETHING to stop that garbage!



2ukenkerl
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03 Aug 2008, 3:47 pm

mysterious_misfit wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:

I haven't, but you gave me an idea that led to a question, and my question may lead to a kind of answer for you! :lol: How would you lay out your SOP? Sequentially, in mindmap form, or what?


Well the clothing and email ones are just mentally noted. For something more complex, I think I'd want it as a sequential set of instructions. What did you have in mind?


Well, I have thought a while now about creating a product that will tell how to run some departments, and you made me realize that a mindmap might be a good thing to include.