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Tahitiii
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17 Sep 2008, 12:12 pm

No, I'm not angry and resentful because I don't understand.
I'm angry and resentful because I DO understand them, better than they understand themselves.
It takes me a little longer (sometimes a lot longer) to figure them out specifically because they are corrupt and dishonest.
I don't have those instincts for dishonesty, cruelty and blind obedience and I can't relate, hence the accusation of "lack of empathy."
Sometimes I am unable to play because I don't understand the game.
More often, I refuse to play because I do understand the game. The game itself is sick.

I'm angry and resentful because people in positions of authority usually abuse their positions and twist the minds if children until they don't know who they are or what they are doing.
If you're confused by all the self-contradictory crap they give you, their ready solution is to trust and obey and don't ask any questions.
Honesty leads to all kinds of insubordinate thoughts and behaviors that they can't tolerate.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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17 Sep 2008, 12:20 pm

Okay...this is the sad realization. Us Aspies just aren't as good at playing the NT game it zaps our confidence and that pisses us off. Thus, we are angry.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:20 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
No, I'm not angry and resentful because I don't understand.
I'm angry and resentful because I DO understand them, better than they understand themselves.
It takes me a little longer (sometimes a lot longer) to figure them out specifically because they are corrupt and dishonest.
I don't have those instincts for dishonesty, cruelty and blind obedience and I can't relate, hence the accusation of "lack of empathy."
Sometimes I am unable to play because I don't understand the game.
More often, I refuse to play because I do understand the game. The game itself is sick.

I'm angry and resentful because people in positions of authority usually abuse their positions and twist the minds if children until they don't know who they are or what they are doing.
If you're confused by all the self-contradictory crap they give you, their ready solution is to trust and obey and don't ask any questions.
Honesty leads to all kinds of insubordinate thoughts and behaviors that they can't tolerate.

Your views border on delusional paranoia - but mainly because they're based on a misinterpretation borne of Aspinoid 'visual' impairment.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:21 pm

The OP question presumes that the reader self-hates. I do not hate myself. Instead, I realize that being an Aspie places me in a peculiar position with NTs.

On the one hand, they appreciate my objectivity, intelligence, my near-obsessive focus on completing a task, and the ability to see both the Big Picture and the smaller details all at once (e.g., I see both the forest and each tree within it, so to speak). :)

On the other hand, they do not appreciate my honesty when it comes to pointing out the inherent flaws in an idea, a design, or a prototype. Nor do they appreciate my honest opinion, even when they ask for it, and especially when my opinion is something they do not want to hear. (i.e., "Does this outfit make me look fat?" ... "No, you are fat. That outfit just makes it obvious.") :(

On the gripping hand, I am what I am, and that's all that I'll ever be. :D


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17 Sep 2008, 12:24 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Okay...this is the sad realization. Us Aspies just aren't as good at playing the NT game it zaps our confidence and that pisses us off. Thus, we are angry.

Yes this is true. It is not that there aren't unhelpful people that can make you life a misery. It is more that these people don't have to run you life if you don't let them, and most of them have little connection with each other.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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17 Sep 2008, 12:27 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Okay...this is the sad realization. Us Aspies just aren't as good at playing the NT game it zaps our confidence and that pisses us off. Thus, we are angry.

Yes this is true. It is not that there aren't unhelpful people that can make you life a misery. It is more that these people don't have to run you life if you don't let them, and most of them have little connection with each other.


I hate to be the one to complain because I know they mean well. Every time I go to the neighborhood store the cashiers, some of them, too many of them, call me "sweety" and "honey", words that sound too sugary and condescending to me even though I don't know if their intention is condescension. It just makes me feel uncomfortable and I wonder if they truly think I am totally brainless. If I were brainless that wouldn't bother me
:(
This zaps my confidence too.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:30 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I hate to be the one to complain because I know they mean well. Every time I go to the neighborhood store the cashiers, some of them, too many of them, call me "sweety" and "honey", words that sound too sugary and condescending to me even though I don't know if their intention is condescension. It just makes me feel uncomfortable and I wonder if they truly think I am totally brainless. If I were brainless that wouldn't bother me
:(
This zaps my confidence too.

It is ok to be a grumpy 'ole bastard as long as you a content with that. It is called being human.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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17 Sep 2008, 12:31 pm

But I'm not old:(



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17 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm

I wondero how many grumpy, crotchety old men were really Aspies just trying to maintain a quiet, stim-free environment ... ?


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Tahitiii
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17 Sep 2008, 12:35 pm

MemberSix wrote:
...based on a misinterpretation borne of Aspinoid 'visual' impairment.
That's the point. It's not a misinterpretation.
NT behavior is based on herd-instinct. Everything follows from that. They don't understand themselves or their own motives.
If I don't understand or refuse to play, they automatically presume that it's because there's something wrong with me. The presumption is based on circular reasoning.

Tell me again why I should send my son across the ocean to kill some stranger?
To protect the interests of some fat cat? Why would that be smart?
So that the fat cat can continue to destroy the environment, the culture, the political system, the economy and eventually himself? At what point does reason or honesty enter the equation?

Tell me again why I should accept drugs or a lobotomy from some doctor who doesn't understand himself and makes irrational presumptions about me, based on other irrational presumptions...

The problem is not that I don't understand, but that I do.



Last edited by Tahitiii on 17 Sep 2008, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Sep 2008, 12:37 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
But I'm not old:(

It's an expression :D



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17 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm

I may have a bad attitude (have been told that most my life) but I am not old nor male.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
The problem is not that I don't understand, but that I do.

I don't think you understand a great deal more than behaviourists that are still struggling to understand this very conundrum. Did you come up with the herd mentality idea or did you read about it? Humans struggle to understand their behaviour. They have a combination of individualistic traits and an undercurrent of inherent behaviour.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:44 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I may have a bad attitude (have been told that most my life) but I am not old nor male.

I know it wasn't direct targeted at you, just that it is ok to be like that stereotype. I wouldn't consider myself to be like that, but there are times when I'm more virulent in making my views known.



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17 Sep 2008, 12:46 pm

I see:)



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17 Sep 2008, 1:05 pm

All-right, I thought a lot on this, so another side on this;

I personally don't think it's any to do with who's into culture or not (if we take it that aspies would not be into culture). Because the same ignorance towards an individual can come from non-disabled, disabled people, also from autistic people.

I'm all for culture, because I see it as the very basis of developing a social context in which then differences and individuality are recognised and recognised for their matter of course. But it's got a lot to do with expectations, that's what I totally agree about.

I went through life not knowing I was autistic, in a small part of the world people pointed their fingers at me and tried to push me off and away from their world so they would not have to bother with one who is different from them.

Then, after being diagnosed, I came into a small part of the autistic community who pointed their fingers at me and tried to push me off and away from their world so they would not have to bother with one who is different from them.

Both went on how I should start using words such as 'dumb', 'bad', 'a little crazy', 'abnormal' for myself because I didn't fit their idea of how I should be. It would be sad and if I hadn't a good sense of who I am and what to do, I would have sat through my lesson of self-hate based on being different and thus not meeting expectations like a good little human. (Guess I'm a bad little human then, I can never and have never taken others for real, can't believe their opinion is of any worth concerning my inner self.

And since I have, in other small parts of the world, met non-autistic and autistic people who were nothing like that, it's just kind of comical that all kinds of people feel the need to claim that

'their idea of how things and people should be is good and they're not being ignorant at all, they're all-knowing and all-forgiving of course'.

So I think self-hate first and foremost is connected to the ability of self-deceiving. Most people, regardless of their status of disorder or neurology, have that ability to lie to themselves about themselves and about the rest of the world they want to see.

Though all parts of a person are present, the difference, the social inability, but also the ability to lie well, to manipulate as well as mathematical or language abilities, humour, thoughtfulness and so many more some are just not appreciated depending on where we live and what we personally think.

I think all are well. They're present, so the eager attempt to try to separate, deny, get rid off and mindfully split with that facet of personality is causing self-hate. Every sentence such as 'you must understand when I am laughing!' but also 'lying is something only horrible people do' is telling another person (and yourself) to get rid of that. It's not just unnecessary, but it's totally undesired and unloveable.

The message is: one who is like that cannot be appreciated, respected or liked. One who is like that is no longer a person but beneath a person, like a lowly life-form and deserves no love.

It's a message that children learn everyday, because that's just how society and how we ourselves work. We state what is good and we state what one must not be like if they want to be loved.

We kinda connect the advice on how to live together (to understand social clues, not to lie), meaning what to learn and what to try to do for the purpose of living in an environment that's fair and feels good with how every person should be like automatically, be born like, be without trying.

Instead of just judging the act we perceive with out eyes, with out ears, we judge the very urge itself, even if suppressed or handled well. When we say 'that's horrible! unnatural! abnormal!' we do not mean 'don't DO this' but we mean 'don't BE like this' (no matter if you do it or not).

Because others say and act as if they can not appreciate and love a person who thinks, feels or has a certain problem (that they try to handle), the person starts to hate themselves too.

If hated by all, what is left to understand that you must hate yourself because there is something about you that others hate? And if the part that's makes you wrong in the eyes of others and thus a dreadful thing and only half of a real person?

Emotional conclusion: hate your 'wrongness', and start to hate yourself for not being able to be how others expect you to be and stop that 'wrongness' about you.

Often, in order to cure our 'wrongness' (and ourself as a whole) we start to doom another person, another ability, another facet of life. That's the new 'wrongness' and attracts a lot of people who point with their fingers and talking about how disgusting and horrible the new 'wrongness' is. And we can decide how much worse it is than our own and how we are nothing like that, thank goodness!

Because doing that is easy, of course. And if we're fighting for ourselves with nobody besides us, what else to do?


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