Does my 12 year old girl have psychological issues?

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You should take her to a psychiatrist. GPs have no place in diagnosing mental disorders. You should be thankful your GP is declining to address the problem, rather than other GPs who not only diagnose mental illness, but over-prescribe medication that a psychiatrist would know has a dosage that should be increased over time, not taken all at once. That's where a lot of serious problems regarding psychoanalytical drug side effects come in.

I use to read up on shizophrenia...I can't spell, in great detail because I'm a hyperchondriac...can't spell and ment to be a light joke.

Its most comon for women to develop schizo in there late 20. Men in there early 20. But its not uncoman for eather to start during puperty. Even developing it as early as elemantry school, but that's much rarer.

Does schizo run in the family? That would be the first place to ask your self to see if it might even be that because it is most comon a genetic disorder rather then a developing illness. But since you said your daughter had epilepsy...but it hadn't shown up in a bit of years...but we can't rule out the posibility of a disorder developing due to epilipsy.

Other more common disorders can cause halucinations. The extream mania of bipoler can cause hallucinations. Drugs also.

But I'm not a docter and I'm only curiouse as to what it might be.

An odd question but, has she been drinking a lot of water?

But from what you have been discribing. It seems to sound a bit like schizophrenia.

My next question would be to ask if she has been acting odd in a paranoid fashion. For example, eating food that has only been factory wraped because of a fear that someone/thing has poisined it.

Schizophrenia is most common as paranoid schizophrenia. thinking that there special in delusional way that they believe that other people/things are out to distroy them/get them. The movia, a beautiful mind is a good example of how it goes.

Again I'm not a docter of any sorts. I just read a lot and am curiose about it all. But schizophrenia is srius and should not be taken lightly.

since I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to no health isurience. I would first go and talk to her guidence cauncler at school. Set up a privet meeting of just you and her/him andf discuse how your daughter is behaving and how its effecting you and the family. She will most likely point you in the right derection and that should be a good place to start to get help for your daughter.

Ill pray that all goes well.

My mum thought when i was a child i was schizophrenic and I wasnt. This year i was diagnosed and given injections of powerful antipsychotics for schizophrenia. They beleive now and the psychiatrist i see doesnt beleive i have any schizophrenic illness at all and he diagnosed me as being BPD. I have only even saw him once but i think they go by your hospital records and other reports. He said he doesnt know why the other psychiatirst even diagnosed me with schizophrenia.
I dont think i have it eithier.

Hey--I should note that you should start first with a full physical check-up. This is very important because there are a great number of things that can go wrong with the body's hormone balance or nervous system that aren't related to mental illness. It is common enough that a physical illness is misdiagnosed as a mental one, and you simply MUST rule out something like this first--especially at a touchy time like puberty, when both mind and body are changing rapidly. Hormones are supposed to change during this time but if they change too much, illness results.

If she is having problems with hallucinations, remember that things like this are treatable... especially if caught early. (Also remember to make sure the psychiatrist does a proper differential diagnosis, especially between bipolar, DID, schizophrenia, and possibly mild conduct disorder--the treatments for them are VERY different and you certainly want to know which is which. Bipolar disorder especially can result in "two different people" because of the up and down periods, as well as hallucinations and impulsive behavior.) Reassure your daughter that even if she does have a diagnosis, there will be ways to deal with it. It's not a "no way out" situation--plenty of people have had mental illnesses; more than half the population, in fact, when you include common things like ADHD and depression. (About 5-8% have a "serious" mental illness, defined by "needed hospitalization"; I'm one of them. I'm also currently an engineering student making straight A's--not, of course, without studying my butt off, but A's nevertheless.)

Beware of overmedication. Also beware of a doctor who tries to medicate without also using therapy to at least teach your daughter what is going on and how to cope with it. If it's a physical illness, the doctor needs to explain to her exactly how it works and what they're doing for it. And be sure that you yourself question what is going on, ask for full explanations, and keep your daughter in the loop so that SHE knows what is going on, too. Act like you are fascinated (you probably will be fascinated--it won't be much of an act) and learn whatever you can.

Oh--and make sure she knows you love her, and love her the way she is... Kids who have to go through stuff like this can really be helped if they know there is at least one person who will always love them, no matter how bad things get.

Do not take your child to a psychiatrist. you will get a bogus diagnosis just to please you, and a prescription for a life threatening drug whose effects you will not be informed about.
TAke your child to a wholistic md who run the gammit of tests to deteremine what is wrong
and treat what is actually wrong as aposed to treating an abstract label that has no scientific veracity. also try a naturopath/homeopath/ traditional chinese medical practisioner with your gp ordering the tests. only a qualified holistic practicioner is capapble of finding out what is wrong and treating your daughter as whole person.


THings that might be wrong are, thyroid and adrenal disfycntion(wich btw only a wholistic doctor will be able adequately dectect and interpet), nutrient dieffencies, alllergies, toxic exposures.

also remove foods additives, sugar and go totally organic

Also check to see if your daughter is being bullied or has suffered a traumtic experience.

also has your daughter taken drugs of any kind prescription or illicit these can cause these symptom.

Also have your daughter checked by a nuerologist for nuerologic issues.

also have checke your house and daughters school and where else she frequents for
things like carbon monoxides and natural gas leakeage and other enviromental hazards
these can cause halcinations.

after these are done try taking your daugheter to alternative psychologist
to talk her through these things

also consider your child is being spirutally aflicted, if a physical cause is ruled out, you might have to consider your child is being aflicted by demons, no im serious, demons are quite real and love to pick on children especially around puberty, be sure to speak to your clergy about it.


DO NOT TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER TO A PSCYCHIATRIST FOR ANY REASON
They are scam artists who will spin a load of baloney to you about your daughter and ruin her health physical and mental and even kill her
These mental health peopel ruin lives and break up families, i know i have been there

Last edited by nightbender on 05 Dec 2008, 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I highly doubt every psychiatrist is a scam artist.

Are you kidding? Sweeping generalizations are always correct! the more people you can include in your generalization, the more valid it is.







hehe

As for the OP, I would do what others have said. Check with Guidance as to her behavior in school, and anything eventwise that could have started it all. It could be schizophrenia ( although Child-Onset is rather uncommon ( 1 in 10k to 1 in 40k)), or Bipolar. It could also have nothing to do with psychology and be completely physiological.

It could also be nothing, or anyway nothing that needs a doctor's attention. But better safe than sorry, and if the parents' instincts say something's wrong, "safe" means check into it.

Psychologists are mostly NOT scam artists. The actual threat is not some big conspiracy to take your money and disable your child. What you will find, and should watch out for, are:
--Those who believe in medical management to the point that they overprescribe medication and/or underprescribe therapy.
--Those who are simply not good at what they do. The ability to graduate medical school or get a Ph.D. doesn't guarantee practical skill.
--Those who are enamored with a particular condition and see it everywhere.
--Those who think of medication as a last resort only and will almost never prescribe it even when it could be helpful. Or, people who are not authorized to prescribe medication and do not usually refer anyone to a psychiatrist, for the same effect.
--Religious counselors who believe every mental illness is "only a spiritual problem" and the solution is to become closer to God. (Not religious counselors in general. Many are quite good.)
--Those who keep you in therapy too long, fostering dependence and wasting time and money.
--Those who advocate "tough love" and strong discipline for every childhood problem--especially those who push "boot camps" or other residential programs for "troubled teens"--strict behavior modification with restrictions far beyond those appropriate for the age level usually hurts more than it helps
--Those who believe that one particular cause is the root of every psychological problem: for example, a therapist who believes that anyone who has a problem as an adult must have unresolved childhood trauma.
--Those who do not respect their patients.
--Those who are inefficient at communicating, or simply choose not to listen to their patients.

It's possible to have seizures and have a negative EEG. There are certain types of seizures (I forget what that type is called) that can cause hallucinations or confusion as to who someone is. Can you ask her if her "Friend" sees lights or gets a warm tingly feeling or anything else odd right before hearing voices? I saw that because when I was lik 8-10 yrs old I had seizures and I would get a warmth at my feet that traveled all the way up and sometimes see flashing lights right before a grand mal started.

Something else comes to mind... I've always thought myself what one person calls a schizophrenic another person may call a psychic. So who's to say when hearing voices is crazy or not? In other words are those voices in her head ie:mental illness? Or is she sensitive and picking up vibes from a ghost haunting the place? Did you per chance just move into a new house or do you live above an old Indian burial ground? Or are you letting her watch that tv show called TAPS and she is getting all freaked out? Give the kid benefit of doubt.

If what I read is correct the hormone theory is in connection with someone who has a propensity in developing Schizophrenia. ie:it's in their DNA and once the weird fluctuating hormones start up in adolescence it can trigger the disease to start up.

This just comes to mind that you should have her pregnenolone hormone tested. Though most doctors don't know what that is and they get it confused with progesterone which is a different hormone entirely. I had zero pregnenolone a few years ago which my dr tested for and I was like super weirdo tripping out there for a couple months. Just another thought...

I said PSCHIATRISTS are scam artist, and that is being polite. really psychiatrists are war criminals who need to be tried and executed for human rights violations(the preceding statement is my personal opinion but not by much). Yes there is a giangtic conspiracy to drugg and disable your child, psychiatrists admits so in their private meetings. Psychology is a valid science, psychiatry is less sophisticated than phrenology and less scientific. i agree with you on everything except four and five.

The fact is people experience psychosis have 70-85% better chance of recovery when medication and mental heath treatment is unavaible such as in third world counrtries.

Hearing voices is such a false flag. People in non western cultures hear voices all the time and it doestn cause anything to happen and is an accepted and even valued cultural norm. The spontaneous recovery rate is very high for most things called mental illness. people who have had psychotic experiences and gone untreated often report greater satifaction and sense of purpose when it recedes.

a little factoid is that neuroleptics used for "psychosis" ALWAYS cause brain damage, have a chemical action similar to nerve gas and insecticide, and cause and increase in the long term suscibility to psychosis.

well their are a few good ones like dr. breggin and dr. tomas szaz who speak out against the proffesion and dont proscribe drugs.

BUt for the most part every psychiatrist is in fact a scam artist because he misrepresents himself claiming to treat a diseases that have never been proven to exist.

Here's a thought... could some kid at school gave her some drugs which made her hallucinate so now it has scared her?

Yes, I have heard this, however her EEG results have gone from grossly abnormal to completely normal now so that is why I wondered.

Actually the seizures that she experienced would sometimes result in her seeing things, scary people and such. When she saw them she would just be staring straight ahead not moving. She would also have the grand mal seizures as well when she wouldn't actually have any visions during that time. She did always experience an aura before every seizure where she would feel completely cold and would go very white. She denies that anything like this is happening now.



This has occurred to me. When she didn't want to sleep in her room she slept in the spare room for a few nights but then something freaked her out in there and she told me she would not sleep in there because it was haunted!
But, we have lived in this house for 3 years and it is a new house and I am pretty sure the land is okay.

Another unusual thing;
Just last night she came running out into the lounge from the shower wet and towel around her, eyes wild. She said she could hear us out here screaming and calling her name and it sounded as if someone was trying to murder us! It was very freaky. We were just sitting around talking.

I think she is inclined to some paranoid thinking at times. She will sometimes say that everyone hates her and that the 'ghosts' or people she hears talking are out to get her.

I really don't think anyone has been giving her drugs. I know one can never be sure, but she is actually against anything like that and wouldn't like to take anything that she didn't trust anyway. It's hard enough getting her to take paracetamol if she has a headache she is so scared of what it might do to her!

I do feel I need to get her checked out, but where to start? Psychiatrists seem to be a no go, GP's are not helpful and I agree that they can be inclined to just throw drugs at a problem.
They do have a Chaplin at the school, but there is only one week left before the holidays and then she starts high school next year.

I had a lot of similar behavior around junior high, currently on medication for epilepsy (though at the time I really thought that I was schizophrenic, and was starting to doubt the AS diagnosis I'd had for three years at the time).

One thing to note is, that some seizures (particularly in temporal lobe epilepsy, which is associated with the hallucinations and other seizures you've described, which are like those that I've had), tend to originate from deeper in the brain, and are less likely to be recorded on an EEG. I had about 3 or 4 normal EEGs before I had one that showed up on.

About getting suddenly scared about a place, I've done that before...yeah it could be a lot of things, like bipolar or seizures, and I know that I would want to see if there was a physical cause before trying a behavior mod drug, especially with the seizure history. If you get such a test, push for a sleep-deprived one for the longest length of monitoring (often they only monitor for 30 minutes to an hour and if you don't have a seizure or detectable epileptiform waves, then you're out of luck diagnostically).

OK SLOW DOWN WITH SOME OF THIS DIAGNOSES JAZZ...Let me start off by saying I've been diagnosed schizophrenic which was later turned into the diagnoses schizoaffective: bipolar type. Which basically means I'm a little bit schizophrenic and alotta bit bi-polar. I have 9 years into studying psychology and extremely familiar with all types of disorders. So I have a little experience here.

Your daughters symptoms are not very indicative of schizophrenia, they really aren't. The simple fact that she asked you about hallucinations and voices is a pretty strong indicator of this. Schizophrenics generally are not aware that they are hallucinating. Schizophrenia is a very complex disorder, it's like wires a mixed up in the brain and the brain doesn't process things correctly. It's not so much the paranoia or the hallucinations that make up schizophrenia. The biggest keys to schizophrenia is disorganization on all levels, externally and internally. Thoughts, language, behavior, dress, etc, literally everything is disorganized.

The other thing about these "auditory hallucinations" is there are alot of other factors you're not taking into consideration, It's possible that she has sensitive hearing and she really is hearing voices outside her room but they are distant. It's also possible that she read about schizophrenia and is now having psychosomatic symptoms(her brain is making them up). Since she mentioned it, you're probably just "projecting" now. What I mean is maybe you read a little about schizophrenia and you're trying to make the symptoms fit what is going on when they actually don't. I know you're doing it a least a little from the fact that you mentioned "split personality disorder". You're actually reffering to dissociative identity disorder(DID) which used to be known as "multiple personality disorder". This is often portrayed as a symptom of schizophrenia in the media. It actually has nothing to do with schizophrenia, they are completely separate disorders and it is not at all common for these disorders to be co-morbid(exist together)...Yes, It does happen occasionally...So quit projecting!! ! Intern syndrome.....

I'm really not trying to be insulting so don't take it that way please, I'm basically saying don't worry so much and leave it to a doctor. Doctors are good at what they do(well most of the time). They went to school 8 years longer then you did for their specific trade.

I DO NOT suspect a psychiatric disorder from the information you've given(more info would be alot more helpful). There could be a possible behavioral disorder but some stuff at that age like stealing isn't uncommon. It happens and that could be more of a parenting issue, something you need to to work on with her yourself. I suggest you have your daughter evaluated by a behavioral specialist, or feel free to pm/IM me and I can evaluate some stuff with alot more info if you'd like since you don't have insurance and what not.

Here's the thing, you NEED to do more research on epilepsy. Given your daughters history she's obviously prone to seizures. There are many types of seizures that are much different from the typical spasming fish grand mal type seizure. Your daughter could be having simple or complex partial seizures. During these seizures, only a certain part of the brain is affected by abnormal electrical activity. This means the person can still be completely aware of whats going on, move, speak etc...It varies. Typical symptoms include:
* preserved consciousness
* sudden and inexplainable feelings of fear, anger, sadness, happiness or nausea
* experiencing of unusual feelings or sensations
* altered sense of hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing, and tactile perception (sensory illusions and/or hallucinations), or feeling as though the environment is not real or detachment from the environment (depersonalization)
* a sense of spatial distortion--things close by may appear to be at a distance.
* déjà vu (familiarity) or jamais vu (infamiliarity)
* laboured speech or inability to speak at all
* usually the event is remembered in detail

While asleep symptoms include:

* onset usually in REM sleep
* dream like state
* appearance of full consciousness
* hallucinations and/or delusions
* behavior or visions typical in dreams
* ability to engage with the environment and other people as in full consciousness, though often behaving abnormally, erratically, or failing to be coherent
* complete amnesia or assimilating the memory as though it was a normal dream on regaining full consciousness

Thats an excerpt from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_partial_seizure that's the link if you'd like to see the article. It's suspected that I may suffer from these type of seizures but being that I'm bipolar I was put on "mood stabilizers" which are actually anti-convulsants for epilepsy and have since stopped having the problem I was. So they're not really positive what was going on. But given that they were seizures as me and my doctors suspect. I can tell you that partial seizure can feel and look very strange behaviorally.

My suggestion, consult your doctors ASAP, discuss the idea of simple partial seizures and explain what is going on. DO NOT mention schizophrenia or try to exaggerate the symptoms to make it seem like that. Let them decide, don't try to influence the diagnoses. I suggest getting your daughter back on her anti-convulsants ASAP.

Ok well, it's 5:21 AM I need to go to bed, I can't think of anything else to say for now...Hope this helped and feel free to PM/im/e-mail me, like I said earlier. Good luck!

Oh wait, last thought, about all the doctors throwing drugs at her, OF COURSE THEY ARE! THAT'S WHAT DOCTORS DO! But, no matter what, whether she is having seizures, psychiatric problems, or actually schizophrenic as you suspect the treatment for all of those includes drugs. So you're both going to have to deal with that fact. There's nothing wrong with drugs. They're made to help people. If you treat whatever this is now, it will be much easier then when she get's to 19 like I did and has a complete mental break-down and end's up hospitalized or in a "psych ward" for suicidal behavior. My problems started at 13 and peaked at about 20-21ish for reference...