You have quite a pithy way with words. I agree with almost everything you said. However, this is a stage in my development of a social mind, so I do want to add qualifying comments to your punchy ones below.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
To a degree, yes. My parents and some of my old teachers from high school have sometimes given me sh** for not socializing as much as everyone else, and that does get real annoying real fast.
My family knows that I can perform socially now, so they seem to demand/expect it of me. It takes a lot out of me and I don't see why I need to do it just to make them feel comfortable with me. If it's for some other, important purpose, it's worth the energy drain and stress, but I don't see why I have to turn on my socializing capacity just to be with them, just so they're not uncomfortable with my AS-ness.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
NTs do like me as far as I can see, but I really do not care a sh*t for the vast majority of them.
Socialization can be a real pain in my ass, and I am growing quite weary of having to appear "normal" and cater to the whims of a society to which I owe nothing at all.
Socialization skill is how they value and rank each other, so if you don't engage in the social hierarchy and influence-negotiation with them, they think you're stupid and irrelevant. My problem is that I think they are stupid and irrelevant because their narcissistic, phony social games are totally uninteresting and lame to me, and many NTs have little else in their personal landscape. So my feeling is that although NTs want to like me and seem to easily be impressed if I try hard, and although I know how to socialize now if I put on a big effort, I have no motivation. I really don't like most of them. Perhaps when socializing comes easier and it's not much of an energy drain and doing so is trivial, I will start playing their social identity games, but for now it's just all Ego-chatter and status talk between phonies that I don't want to get involved in.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
The only NTs that are even worth dealing with are my family and very close friends. As for all the others, f**k 'em entirely - they are of less worth to me than the pennies in my wallet.
I myself only deal with other people completely on my own terms, or if I simply have no choice but to do so.
And the only other NTs who are of importance to me are my teachers, and ONLY because they give me my grades.
That's a good way to filter users out of one's life. AS can drive themselves crazy trying to be what they think others need to be, in order to please/appease NTs who don't value them. I've found that those who will appreciate and understand you are those who will make the effort up front. The NTs who can't or won't see you on your own terms at any level are the ones you will waste your time trying to please. It is better to develop ways to sort the never-will-be-satisfied NTs from the can-see-you-on-your-terms early on.
It's possible to train other NTs to see you on your terms, but you have to manipulate them psychologically and rhetorically to get them to that point, to see you in your own frame of reference. That takes considerable social skill and a lot of insight into that person.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
In the past, many NTs have called me a hateful/cynical/emotionless/compassion-less monster, but I really don't give a damn - especially not after I've had to put up with their bullcrap, teasing and bullying for most of my childhood/teenage years. And I don't owe those people anything anyways.
Numerous people have tried to get me to 'come out of my shell' but I simply don't feel like doing so. I'm comfortable within my shell, and if they don't like it, then tough sh**.
It is stressful and distressing for many AS to socialize. I think NTs don't realize that it is healthier emotionally and psychologically for AS to have the space they need. I get sick and stressed and defensive if I am not alone enough.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
In the course of nearly a decade, I have developed a strong distrust and hatred of NTs (and pretty much all other people except my family & the few friends I have), because from my own experiences I have found the vast majority of them to be quite ignorant, fake, shallow, and stupid. And yet they claim to be "normal" and state that people like me are the ones with the problem, and that REALLY pisses me off.
This sounds exaggerated, but I agree with you. Most AS have a very Pollyannish view of what NTs are like, because they don't have ToM and can't see under their surfaces. Some AS idolize and worship NTs, and have low self-esteem and hate themselves. If only they could see what most NTs are under the faces and images that NTs present to the world... most AS would have much better self esteem and not admire NTs quite so much.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
If being "normal" equates to having said traits, then I'm damn proud of the fact that I have AS.
I think that being phony, etc, is a function of Ego and stupidity. Most people have high opinions of themselves and will work hard to live up to their self-image. It's mostly the stupid or incompetent ones who start pretending, because they can't live up to their self-images in honest ways. So they start pretending and lying. Just like any cheating, if you can do it honestly, you don't have to cheat.
EnigmaticPhilosophy wrote:
To me, the vast majority of NTs are little more than pathetic brainwashed sheep, completely at one with the collective herd of other mindless drones otherwise known as society at large.
According to the recent rerun of
the Milgram experiment, "most" = about 70 percent, when it comes to abusing someone else if you think the group gives you permission and expects you to do it.
EDITED TO ADD: I had to come back to add that I believe the above statements are true for NTs in groups. Individually, they are totally different than they are in groups.
Well Ephemerella, I do thank you for hearing me out on this one - I thought I was just going to get called out on it.
I admit - part of it was just me venting, but most of what I said in my last post really DOES come from life experience.
When I was younger, I did try to play the whole 'socialization game' in an attempt to fit in with the rest of the herd, but I was never truly accepted, and usually made fun of/bullied on a regular basis. And you're right - it is mostly just one big ego/status trip, and there are so few NTs who are willing to just be 'real' with you. I real got sick of that real quick.
And as I came to learn about AS and the ways of the world, I slowly began to drift away from the 'socialization game'. I have long ago realized that I don't need to deal with people all of the time in order to be happy, and that the vast majority of people - NT or otherwise - are simply not worth dealing with anyways.
I never 'put myself out there', or go out of my way to meet people - that's just not my style. And believe it or not, I have met all of my friends completely by chance. Either that, or they came to me first.
And I had to have a scathing way with words, otherwise I'd have been pushed around every other day. Plus, I live in a bit of a tough neighborhood right now (there are three small-time street gangs where I live), so coming across as tough/mean/unapproachable is a BIG plus. (People have told me several times that I look very intimidating. And if that means I don't have to put up with people's crap when I don't have to, then that's awesome.)
I though about the whole group mentality thing for a bit, and I kinda agree with you - I have also noticed that NTs generally act less stupid when they're not in groups.
21 Dec 2008, 1:44 pm
(she spends most of her time in the back office with the rest of the upper management)
