Making good arguments to prove a Genocide of Autistic People

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Nonsense! There is no plot to do away with Auties or Aspies. Most people are indifferent.

ruveyn

I'm probably lower-functioning than your average bear (I haven't seen someone with AS who is lower-functioning), but I'm a hunter who has infinite patience.

If anyone wants to sterilize me (it's beside the point that there's a good chance I won't have children), if someone wants to lock me up because of my asocial and defiant attitude--I'll see you in the forest.

I had a lovely conversation with my mother about the self-help skills I lack--nearly all of them are in relation to social norms. I can kill a pig, clean it, and prepare it over a fire I built, but I can't cook a pig in your average oven and prepared in a way that society likes.

I tried using a human rights tribunal in my dispute with my building manager, and I was unable to demonstrate how my complaint related to my disability. I thought it was pretty obvious, so I think what happens is that you can only use existing human rights law when your demographic group is clearly visible to the public. As long as we're obscured by ridiculous stereotypes, I think we'll have a hard time convincing people we're being done wrong to. They'll think the discrimination is actually a good thing for us, or they just won't understand one way or the other.

Warsie, your UN quotations don't mention pseudoscience and hate speech, (at least I didn't see them) but they're a huge component of genocide and discrimination. And there are some truly ridiculous (and negative) theories out there. ToM, empathy . . .

I agree that there's a move towards eliminating us from the gene pool (something I don't think is possible). They don't want to help us, they want us to cease to exist (like smallpox) as if we're some sort of cancer or disease humankind is suffering from. Autism is a challenge I am willing to take on. The problem is lack of social support, not the autism, and lack of social support could kill anyone.

One form of elimination of autistic adults is (in many countries) insufficient income support. If they put off helping us long enough, we'll die of stress and then they won't have to.

LabPet, was that article one of Warsie's links?

hmm. Well how would you define autistic people as a nation or ethnicity than? I provided some ideas, but do you have more



Ahh yes. The bs made by 'TanjaKoch' regarding autism and rape. Arguably the vsccine meme and some other things like that....



no, but I searched for it. here it is

http://www.neurodiversity.com/autistic_distinction.html



well there are those pro-cure organizations in the USA...

Potential threat topic

I believe there is a potential to wipe out autistic people, just as there is to wipe out those with Down Syndrome (more than 90% of fetuses testing positive for DS are aborted). Many lethal testable diseases have been almost eliminated, prompting calls for elimination of those who are simply different or the "wrong" sex. Some babies are just "too expensive" to be born! The smart ones are just easier to raise. Parenting simplified. Parenting for dummies.

One wonders just who is qualified to parent.

Anemone: Yes, from Warsie's link given on his OP near the end, he gave: www.ventura33.com/clock/

Then there's a list of articles to choose. The 48th down the list is The Autistic Distinction, an essay by Kathleen Seidel. I printed her essay since the message is a relevant summary - Woodpecker alluded to some of what Kathleen wrote too.

Separately, I found this video (I did post earlier elsewhere but I don't think hardly anyone got to watch). I hope you can watch/listen - worth the investment. Disclaimer: This video *might* be a bit....unsure of word......sentimental? Not the intent, but the message is there! I have known too many Autists who've been hurt to varying degrees and this video is a real portrayl of what's happening. I liked the music too, Native American flute -well done video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzRmZYa ... re=related

Danielsmyname: You'd make a great Alaskan! I've hunted by lifestyle, subsistence. In many ways our skills which may not be convention are our survival mechanism.
An interesting phenomena, related: Oftentimes Autists (usually children, but not always) will become lost, wandering off. Autist will look for isolation and find that remote place. What I've read that's significant is whilst many NT children who might get lost or 'run-off' will go into the woods, for instance, and then die or suffer badly from the either the elements (ie: not finding sufficient shelter) or thirst, cut badly by thorn bushes and rocks, etc. But the Autistic child, even 'low-functioning' will have those survivial skills seemingly a priori, much like an animal! A lost dog, for example, will fare far better than the average lost NT child. But an Autistic child, like a lost pet, has the advantage in this situation; they will find water and just 'know.'

Thanks LabPet, for the comment but I am not quite sure which part of the "The Autistic Distinction" you are making a reference to. I know that it has been said that "Great minds think alike", but I know that this is not always true.

I think that paragraph five of the essay is of particular note, we need to be careful of the way we allow other people to speak and write about us. Like charity it starts at home, when we communiate with the outside world we need to be careful that we do not confirm the NT people's stereotypes about who and what we are.

The only thing I perceive at this point is possibly melodrama.

'cide as part of the word indicates a killing. How many AS have been killed simply for being 'that way?' Even in Nazi Germany, they had different symbols in the camps for more than Jews (Gays and gypsies had their own symbols ), as groups that 'had to go'; even that's a specious argument, since the diagnosis was first done at nearly the end of the war...but

anyways! (as my daughter used to say...

Most of the world doesn't even know we exist. A formal diagnosis in the DSV is only what, 14 years old? We don't constitute a sufficient 'trigger point' in terms of population density to even be 'the other' in a unified sense (by which I mean the average person would start looking around and saying 'there's a whole lot of [fill in the blank] around here all of the sudden'

As for a cure - it's a genetic variation, so you'd need recombinant genetics to be able to 'fix' it post-birth. Pre-birth abortions; well, there's going to be people who try their own 'home-grown eugenics' methods, especially in controlled societies where the number of births is decreed by the State. For most people, I don't know if they would consider that as a medically recommended option. Long story short- probably more than 1 person has died for being Autistic, but not enough to constitute genocide.

Still, anything along those lines are years or decades away. I really don't think we're in any danger yet.

pakled (& ruveyn): You do have a point and the argument presented likely does seem melodramatic! I truly don't think 'THEY' are out-to-get us (at least I don't think....my paranoia is in check ). But instead the pendulum may swing wide. By this I mean Autists CAN be targeted, and are.

I guess once once has been hurt BADLY (ie: Lab Pet) just for being autistic this does fundamentally change onself. Agreed; for many, perhaps those Aspies whose difference isn't too noticable, this may not really be applicable. But others have paid the price, I promise.

Not to be too revealing (no details....) but I have been sickly badly HURT beyond HURT.......JUST for being autistic. I realize many/most outsiders are not much aware of us - might be a good thing! But the evil part; their ignorance can KILL an Autist. And I am not melodramatic. I'm quite tough but the HATE that has been given to me, but just those very few who are truly ignorant, did not merely affect my life but nearly ended it.

Also, I know one (NT mother - really nice lady) who works in Disability Law. Her son is autistic. If you knew even partly some of what's happening to certain autistic children you would SEE. Just in my own community there have been autistic children (yes, even those with 'just' AS!) who have been shackled to desks (not kidding), beaten to unconsciousness (by bullies), more....

I did SEE the artwork of one (not from here) who is, or rather was, an Aspie, and quite gifted. But socially awkward, shy, misinterpreted. Unfortunately he was schooled in a community NOT amenable to his difference. He's now recovering but has crippling (I mean this in the most profound way) PTSD. He had been beaten, then he thought he was so bad he was slamming himself, full force, into the wall. The wall was bloody and the sheetrock broken with the force. Then his suicide attempt - and this is just a kid.

So I do take seriously bullying and when one is hurt. Again, I'm NOT saying anybody is plotting to kill off Autists but their is real damage and it's enough widespread that it's alarming.

I don't feel like disclosing what I've endured (and I'll not ever truly recover) but suffice to say - too hard.

One small comment I heard locally (and this isn't too significant, but does reflect the attitude). I was in a cat adoption center. The older lady owner was really nice and was retired from the University - she donates her time to cat adoption. Anyway, I DID speak - she was nice/friendly. She asked about what I do, I basically said I was in the neurosciences (grad student, research), did mention autism as neuroscience research. She thought this was interesting and appreciates science........another couple had entered. The man said to me (direct quote): "I know how to cure it. Don't let the imbeciles breed."

I was in the local cafe where I sometimes study/read. I do stim. The cafe was crowded and I was deeply focused on my work, oblivious to others. The tables are close together and I became aware of 2 older women talking......then I listened - they were talking about me. This is what they said, in paraphrase (there's more), "Psycho." "You wouldn't think this kind of a place would allow her kind." I started crying, and hard. Then crying uncontrollably, near meltdown. These 2 women were finishing their coffee and dessert, then simply left.

This is a bit scary, given what I've been through, and others. FYI: The counselor who abused me is no longer working in her capacity....(thankful). She could serve jail time - working on that part. She is guilty of what is termed Therapeutic/Medical Abuse. This is serious and potentially lethal for any autistic client/patient.

I hope that makes sense.

It is sad to read of the true life tales which LabPet posted, I hold a view that even if a planned and systematic genocide is not occurring that a single instance of the violence and other nasty behaviours which LabPet mentioned is occurring then it is a cause for deep concern.

I would like to suggest that one of the things we should do in such cases is to lobby for the existing anti-hate crime laws to be applied in such cases. If you consider the nefarious deeds of Joseph Paul Franklin and David Copeland I think that all right minded people (NT and non-NT) will feel a heightened disgust at these two men because they choose to commit hate crimes rather than “normal crimes”.

If we could get the anti-autie and anti-aspie violence classified as being hate crimes then the investigation of these crimes will become a higher priority and the sentences will become longer. I am then hopeful that these hate crimes will become more rare.

One thing I feel a sense of disgust at are those cases where a NT parent kills a non-NT child and then uses the non-NT state of the child to mitigate their crime. I hold the view that if anything that the disabled state of the child should be viewed by a court as an aggravating feature of the crime.

For instance in Ohio the murder of a child under the age of 13 is considered being on a par with the murder of a police man who is writing you a ticket for failing to wear your seat belt.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903

I claim ignorance. Just a few years ago I could not have described autism, and did not identify with it.

It was a shock to learn about. Now I admit to fitting the description, but there is that thing about others do not know what we know.

There is major propaganda that we are all lifelong terrible twos.

There is not much on adult outcomes, except for on Wrong Planet. Total members and visitors might come up to 1/10 of 1% of America, but the site is international.

For those with more knowledge, there are 79 members logged on right now.

While I have found it very helpful, there is no mass agreement between members.

Autism Speaks has a propaganda machine they fund $10,000,000 a year.

"Terrible Twos who will never be potty trained will eat all the money you would spend on plastic surgery."

"Autism costs more than a new BMW every year."

Of course the real threat to upper middle class ambitions turned out to be themselves, and housing and stocks, guys named Bernie, are going to cut back on these "helper" charities, I hope they did invest with Bernie.

Our political and educational force is running a counter attack, and most effective, except it is named Warsie.

So in the face of massive ignorance, a propaganda machine claiming we are the reason that your child investment has not paid stunning returns, a logic equal to saying people with cancer, cause cancer, we have Warsie.

I do think he should do more to educate the six billion on this planet about our 1/2% in some countries who are not well understood. He does have that minority knowhow.

Some are making money, which can be seen in how they deal with the subject.

Autism Speaks is glitzy, but uses the words of Kurtz. "Kill them, kill them all."

Autism Digest is middle of the road, they also cover containment, private schools, and even hope.

Alex of course is raking in millions letting them speak.

Activists seek some pan Disabled status, where everyone will embrace their disability, and form a begging congress. In their view we are a gullible minority, and they will be in charge of us too. Their Psychopath wing has a plan.

I hold the view that I have always thought there was something wrong, with everyone else.

We do have strong points, and some excess baggage thrown overboard.

We need several things, first a network, thank you Alex. Next we need our voice heard, but not in Congress, or National Mental Health, or through some rights group.

My best thought is a small town paper format. Applied Autism is the concept that in some things, we do show superior skills, which is easy when obsessions lead to spending thousands of hours on a special interest. Still, I think we are of more interest to each other, and perhaps some family and friends.

We are a diverse lot, unlike the groups where most are Napoleon, who fight with the minority who are Jesus.

Some idea of economic development, not that we would get along, but it would be better than taking on the world at random, as we do now. It is possible we might even learn a social skill or two. Considering the current path of economic collapse, raising corn, beans, and running some goats might work.

I also hold hope for publishing, indoor work.

My main goal is we should have a home town, a place to visit and be from. It seems we have a lot of wasted skills and labor that could be applied to building on the idea we might not all be killed under Federal Budget Adjustment Acts.

We have a differance of thought and perception, so no outsider could understand, and we must define ourselves. We are different, but we do have something in common.

The rest of the world might change, I would bet for the worse. We are too few to change them, but enough to change ourselves.

Applied Autism is the greatest research project humans could do, and only we can do it.

Wealth, power, advanced science, world domination, are within our reach.

I have to agree.

However...
In one of my Psychology classes this semester (I'm a junior in college) in a 300-level special topics honors course (so...the smartest of the smart undergrads, at least that's what they like to think of themselves) I encountered a contrary situation.
My professor brought up the discussion of the "mind" and how/why to improve its abilities within the context of the "brain". This train of thought brought about a lengthy (20+ minutes) discussion on selective breeding. I brought up the incredulousness of their suggestion of a global-population control. They agreed. It was ALMOST IMMEDIATLY (within <2 minutes) decided upon by the class that the correct course of action to better improve our "species" (mankind) would be to exterminate all mentally deficient (non-nt) populaces. The primary (and notably the sole) example brought up in class was the autistic spectrum (including Asperger's Syndrome). I did not feel very comfortable in that setting.
Anyhow, this isn't a conspiracy or anything of that nature. We shouldn't be upset with these people. What we NEED to do is be UNDERSTANDING of their lack of understanding. Perhaps it's due to a lack of empathy (haha, a characteristic believed to be held by many auties/aspies), but regardless it's just a lack of proper information presented to them.
I personally believe that the course of action to solving any potential genocide (which, I find to be unlikely) would be through greater strides in dissemination of what it REALLY means for someone to have Asperger's Syndrome or be considered somewhere on the "autistic spectrum."

Thoughts?

Ditto about Autism Speaks. One of my professors, whom I like very much, had firstly considered a research grant for University through Autism Speaks - no longer. Autism Speaks has lost credibility and they know it.

I did tell my professor, with regard to Autism Speaks, I shall not sell my soul to the Satanic Opus Dei that is Autism Speaks. Besides, Autism Speaks doesn't like the Lab Pet. This would have been at least a conflict (more violent cancelation of matter) interest, for both parties concerned. Did Bernie invest his nest egg in Autism Speaks?

Research funding is good. This amounts to: Lab Pet needs a Sugar Daddy; seduce with my science. This then propogates MORE science and this is the goal. Autism is not to be annihilated but, well, I think the Inventor said it right, "Applied Autism."

I think obliviousness, in terms of the futility of dealing with those who 'just don't get it' (ie: certain psychs with a nasty temperament who ought to be broken like horses) and instead turn inward. We are a diverse autism but with order, not chaos. In Greek the word 'Entropy' is translated as 'to turn toward' and is the direction of time. And I think this might the Applied Autism vector! Autism is a 'disorder' afterall which means we are entropically favored! NTs are just jealous.

The propoganda (ie: hate campaign) is brutal but we don't watch TV. Except for maybe Star Trek.

Separately, just an observaton (Woodpecker caught this curiosity too): NocturnalQuilter is now 'NT' according to his profile. Miraculous cure?

Thank you for the perspective, Inventor.

Before I ran into Wrong Planet, I started a group for inventors. The idea was to share some information, for the field covers everything, and the Internet was new. Many I found did not read their mail, many more moved and left no forwarding address, and this list of addresses came from the Patent Office, and was the official contact address for them. I was working through the Patent Office then.

Those I did get in contact with were a strange lot, and it proved impossible to get them to meet.

My view was the list I picked, those who had gotten a Patent, their first, within the year, would have some interest in the field. It was herding cats, and after six months, mailings, meetings which few attended, I gave up. I had been warned by the Patent Office, inventors are not social.

After finding Wrong Planet the reason became obvious. "Inventor" is a form of Asperger's Syndrome.

The six million Patents they have filed have been useful.

I have heard the same from the computer development that changed the world, Rasputen looking people in garages creating industries.

Newton, Tesla, R. Buckminster Fuller.

There is evidence that this Neurology is useful.

There is also a lot of information that shows that interacting with the world, and worst, being made to conform as children, and later as adults, has some very destructive results.

As Hans Christian Anderson points out in "The Ugly Duckling", if you grow larger they will stop picking on you. It also helps to be rich, other than that, finding places with very limited contact with the general world. These paths do lead to sucess.

"Alls well that ends well"

What is lacking is a study, beyond the Wrong Planet, of adult outcomes, and what lead to that. From there it would not be hard to reverse engineer a best path for the autists.

So far we have had fund raising, and Psychology, but not the Science and Engineering needed.

There is still the dream, we will turn them into NTs. I understand their view, it is the only way they can make money. That they might be doing great harm and damage, seems none of their concern, it just shows a need for more "Treatment". One group works to kill them, one to fix them, either way, they are only subjects to study.

There are a few problems with a study of adults. There arn't any. None with an official stamp, many with the wrong lable, and most who have never heard of it, and like self, would not identify with Autism, unless being shown Wrong Planet. Then there was the inventor problem, anyone who would talk to me is up to something.

Progress is being made on that front, we do have many younger adults who do fit the study.

It is still something we must do ourselves.

I had no idea NTs existed, I just saw them as humans with flaws. I had my own.

I have met a fair number of people like myself, in Libraries, machine shops, people who applied their skills the best they could. We were not the worst people around.

It is not just us. We are on the verge of understanding that there are differances in humans. When I took an interest in math education I found that five styles of learning had been identified, teachers were being trained to identify their students differances.

I am sure our neurology has the same five styles, plus a neurology that is maybe a bit harder to teach.

Autism is just another question on top of being human.

I know that LabPet would be unable to work on the behalf of autism speaks for moral reasons. I would like to know what LabPet has done to irk "Autism Speaks". I think that Autism Speaks when they choose to make their film "Autism Everyday" did select what they thought would be the worst looking cases and the things which they think will be most likely to attract funding for their "cure".

In the ideal world we should hope for in the future, or even try to establish, a charity which could support research on matters relating to autism and aspergers which is "autie friendly". I would strongly suggest that such a foundation should take an idea from the British “Cancer Research Campaign”, Appendix 3 of the 2007 terms and conditions of the Cancer Research Campaign (http://science.cancerresearchuk.org/rep ... mscond.PDF) states that

“Cancer Research UK will not provide future research support to any institution in which those who are or would be supported by Cancer Research UK funds are working in such proximity to others supported by tobacco industry funding that there is any possibility or likelihood that facilities, equipment or other resources will be shared.”

I suggest that a future autism research funding body should have a modified version of this rule which bans a researcher from accepting a single penny or cent from “Autism Speaks” if they wish to be funded by the autie friendly body.

(edited for clarity)

Warsie has posted something interesting and meaningful, in my opinion. What is happening in a lot of countries is that they try to rule out all autism, which apparently is genocide, according to UN definitions. It was bothering me for a while already, it is a weird feeling the minority/group you belong to should be ruled out in the view of many people. The message they actually give is ''you should never have been born in the first place''. I definetely dislike the idea of sterilisations and abortions of autists, as if humans are in some kind of a breeding programm.

According to those people we don't have right to live, in contrary to all other people. Therefore autists are less valuable as humans and that view disgusts me.

Besides, I don't want to brag or look arrogant, but many great inventors, artists and writers were autistic. When you rule out all autists, you may be rid of some ret*d ones in a clinic, but you'll definetely miss also a lot scientific, philosophic, cultural and political improvement. This is one of the facts that makes me dislike eugenics as a concept on itself, regardless of whether autists are bad, a breeding programm for mankind can actually be very dangerous. As I said before, some genetic mishaps might give society inventors, which we need. This is an example, there may be many more disorders who have some use for mankind.

Of course it is impossible to kill autism, genes always will mutilate. But it probably is possible to get rid of most autists when you put an effort in it, which would be bad for everyone.

Whe have also a right to exist. We are not less valuable or human than NT's.