Theory of mind

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How about this, someone made a statement on what my grade was in a rhetorical sense, claimed my gr12 english mark was an 81, which it exactly was. This comment had me going "oh shi* oh shi&, what do I do, I just claimed my mark to be in the 90s to prove a point, and he knows what my mark actually was." 5 minutes later I realize that there is no way he could know what my marks were because he doesn't have access to them.

Also consider that that may be an intended effect by the director of the film.

Really?

I think you are right in a way. I have noticed that ppl try to walk and look like the hero after the movie is finished. I don't go much to the movies anymore, but I remember when seing 200 Clint Eastwood types walking out of the cinema, i was thinking; "what about the girls?", since there often was no good female characters they could walk and look like.
Or was it just in my mind? Hm..

Artistic expression can do wonderful things to the audience.

That could be a ToM issue... but that could have also happened to an NT. Often things that are startling will cause us to revert more to using the hot brain (emotional) versus the cool brain (rational). And since ToM requires use of the rational, then if you're caught off-guard by something and you're thinking in that "red alert" mode where you're using the hot brain, then things like ToM that rely on the cool brain will not work properly for that period while you're panicked.

Interesting.

I sometimes have issues with over assuming what people know, but that doesn't stop me from metaphorically dumping the information contents of my brain onto them.

For instance, if I've read some information then made my own connections between facts, I sometimes "forget" that other people haven't read the same information as I have.

I'm genuinely surprised when I found out that they didn't know the information or make the connection. I say something random and rambling in a weak moment like:

"Yeah, the ancient Greeks thought that mammoth skulls were Cyclops' skulls. It's in Homer's Odyssey. They thought that the giant skulls must have had one eye because they incorrectly assumed that the central opening at the top of the skull was the eye socket."

When my listeners look at me in surprise I say:

"Oh, I thought you knew that."

But then I realise that the listeners couldn't have "known" what I was thinking about or my reasoning because they aren't mind readers and haven't spent hours reading up random esoteric topics. I don't mean to be rude, I just seem to momentarily forget that my listeners may not be interested in topics like that.

This is bizarre because I can tell by looking at someone if they're happy, sad, confused and so on. I can comfort someone if they're distressed or upset. I know that everyone is a unique individual and therefore must think different thoughts.

But somewhere, there's a disconnect. Sometimes I become so engrossed in determined about what I'm doing that I lose sight of other people's points of view (if they're spoken, not if they're written). Perhaps I think that written words are part of the physical environment and sometimes temporarily forget that they were written by other people. I think it's a face to face interaction issue. Either that or I have a "one track mind".

I can write an essay and include both sides of the argument and my own point of view, but put me in a group discussion where we have to reach a collaborative decision and I struggle. I can't understand why people don't want to do things my way especially if my way is the better organised and more sensible way. I come from a family where "Do what you wanna do and don't listen to others or let them put you down" is a maxim. This is great for solo endeavors, but rubbish for committee meetings.

In respect to that, I have learned to ask people if they know what I am talking about before jumping ahead.

Hmmm...

Some teachers and lecturers don't do that though. lol

This is why I always did some background reading before listening to their presentations.

Some of the things they said (or rambled on about) really did go over everyone else's heads.

What did these teachers say?

"You should really know that by now. That should really have been part of your common knowledge before you came in here. You lot have the memory spans of fishes."

I can't blame them for trying though and they were right of course, but I can't help wondering if some of them were in fact AS...

I´m not sure if this is a "theory of mind" problem, but it does seem to be a bigger, more complicated version of the "Sally-Ann" test. And that is, sometimes when I am in a conversation, I temporarily forget that the listener doesn´t have all the information that I have. This can be due to knowledge, as AmberEyes said, but I think it has more to due with perspective. I notice sometimes that when I talk about something, people ask me to explain what I´m talking about, because I left out some crucial piece of information that the listener doesn´t know. It´s like I forget that they don´t have access to my mind. It´s not that I´m stupid or something, I´m highly aware of the fact that people are all different, with different knowledge and feelings, it´s just that in the moment, I temporarily forget what they know or do not know.

The other problem I have is that sometimes in a conversation, my thought processes sometimes go somewhere else. Eventually, I may make a comment involving where I "am" with my thoughts at the moment, but for the other person, it comes out of nowhere, so they say "why did you say that?", in which case I have to explain my thoughts. I often read that autistic people tend to vocalize thoughts, but I think I almost do the opposite: I don´t vocalize them enough, and forget that people don´t know where I´ve gone in my mind.

Funny thing is, I have only become aware of this lately, since I´ve been reading about AS. Like with many other things, I wasn´t aware I was doing it before.

I often find that I might comment about the bird in the window, and people have no clue what I am talking about. Why do I have to be the only one who is totally distracted by my surroundings???

Hmm... I'm trying to think about this. It's easy to acknowledge that someone else has a different perspective than me, but I don't see how you can know how you'd see things from someone else's perspective if you've never actually had their experience. I feel that if I got accused of not having enough empathy it would most likely be because I've simply not experienced as many situations as most NT's have. Since I'm not married and I don't have children I can't really imagine what it would be like to be in that situation. I can only imagine it in a sort of simplistic one-dimensional way. I can’t see the complete picture enough to really feel what it would be like.

But then again NT's sometimes have this problem. I notice that NT's who've never really been depressed seem to think that you can cure yourself simply by 'changing your perspective', as if the problem has to do with thoughts alone. Maybe they've had a painful life experience and subsequently managed to 'get over it', but that doesn't mean they ever had clinical depression. Chances are anyone, mentally healthy or not, would struggle in the situation they experienced. Yet they assume that everyone can just 'get over' clinical depression even though what they experienced wasn't truly clinical depression. Maybe they took an antidepressant for a short time to cope but they were never fully depressed in the biological sense. They have a simplistic picture of depression. They don't have empathy.


I agree with that statement. I am able to utilize theory of mind when I'm on the outside looking in. When reading a story I start to think about what the characters are thinking once I get sufficiently engrossed. It's just that when I'm right in the middle of a social situation it becomes hard to make heads or tales of what's going on. It's something about perceiving my self and others at the same time that's difficult. It's very much a situational problem rather than a universal one. Right in that moment I have trouble knowing what's going on with other people because my own mind is working full capacity just thinking about the topic of conversation or formulating something to say next. I simply can't handle everything going on at once. Even outside of social situations I have trouble doing mental calculations when there are background distractions. I feel like I'm missing some sort of parallel processing feature in my head. I can only do one thing at a time.

I'm not sure whether I fit the typical aspie profile though. I have a lot of trouble socially but sometimes it seems like my reasons for this are slightly different than the reasons other aspies give.

very true.

I've also noticed a lack of empathy in alot of people.

Same here.
I was just oblivious of my own style of mental processing because I've used it since the day I was born and therefore didn't know what I was "missing" or what I "should have been doing".
I noticed other people (in RL) are also oblivious about certain aspects of social situations like I am, so I'm relieved that I'm not alone even if they are all in denial.
Life is full of surprises (sorry to sound cliche).



You're not the only one.

I get distracted too.

This kind of inadvertent "magnifying glass" style focussing on elements in the physical environment I've found is great for making scientific, and poetic observations, but useless in social situations. Avid birdwatchers probably rely on this kind of "zoom lens style" mental focussing power and are probably thankful for it.

When I talk to people I sometimes say things like:
"Oh look there are some moth eggs on that oak tree. How interesting."

Because it just comes into my head as I focus in on the details.

People usually couldn't care less, unless they're interested in wildlife or know me really well. It's sad how some people seem to be completely oblivious to the natural environment.

I do this too... but so does my NT father.

In mid-conversation he'll start a completely new topic without giving any context. "I'll need the car some time before you go to see him". Then I have to ask "who's 'him' and what day are you talking about". "I'm talking about your dentist appointment next Tuesday, I thought you knew that". I'll have multiple appointments to see different people on different days of the week but he'll just assume that I know which one he's talking about. He’s got a lot of sub-threshold aspie traits that became more magnified in me when I inherited them.

I am too, it's something I haven't been able to quite understand just yet.

I tend to do that same thing, but only with me projecting the attributes. If at least one of the main characters in a movie speaks with a certain accent, I find myself doing the same for a little while afterward. Or if someone in the movie had some special ability, I'll imagine I do as well. I don't know if it's just my imagination being way too creative, or if it has to do with this Theory of Mind stuff, but either way, it's nice to know I'm not alone.