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koolguy18
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26 Feb 2009, 11:15 pm

its possible its the other way around


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26 Feb 2009, 11:33 pm

Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.

Certainly it is much more an issue of how information is processed/regulated generally than a memory based issue specifically.

Information processing is a much better explanation. It seems more likely that the brain is not regulating input, and that our "self-aware" functions are being flooded and/or deprived of sensory information (resulting in sensory issues), while we are having to manually deduce things that are frankly not the function of these brain processes (self-awareness process/functions) to deduce in every day real-time interactions.



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26 Feb 2009, 11:56 pm

Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.

My argument here is that this is all because of memory and external factors. The key thing really is what we retain and in what ways we can recall it.


i do not really understand this.

How will it help me if i remember and know i cannot stand more than one noise at a time?

Memory does not alter the fact i have extreme sensory integration dysfunction as part of my AS presentation. (and please bear in mind some of the more progressive specialists in the field actually believe SID should be included in the diagnostic criteria.)

Memory cannot help except in terms of me moderating and modifiying my external environment to reduce noise. But it cannot help to reduce the sensory issues.


:wink:


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27 Feb 2009, 4:45 am

koolguy18 wrote:
its possible its the other way around

Interesting idea - though how would that work?



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27 Feb 2009, 4:49 am

pandd wrote:
Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.

Certainly it is much more an issue of how information is processed/regulated generally than a memory based issue specifically.

Information processing is a much better explanation. It seems more likely that the brain is not regulating input, and that our "self-aware" functions are being flooded and/or deprived of sensory information (resulting in sensory issues), while we are having to manually deduce things that are frankly not the function of these brain processes (self-awareness process/functions) to deduce in every day real-time interactions.

From an information processing perspective there are three main stages in the formation and retrieval of memory:

* Encoding or registration (receiving, processing and combining of received information)
* Storage (creation of a permanent record of the encoded information)
* Retrieval or recall (calling back the stored information in response to some cue for use in a process or activity)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory#Processes
Under the aegis of memory.



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27 Feb 2009, 4:54 am

millie wrote:
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.

My argument here is that this is all because of memory and external factors. The key thing really is what we retain and in what ways we can recall it.


i do not really understand this.

How will it help me if i remember and know i cannot stand more than one noise at a time?

Memory does not alter the fact i have extreme sensory integration dysfunction as part of my AS presentation. (and please bear in mind some of the more progressive specialists in the field actually believe SID should be included in the diagnostic criteria.)

Memory cannot help except in terms of me moderating and modifiying my external environment to reduce noise. But it cannot help to reduce the sensory issues.


:wink:

I never said it would help you - really all I am doing is offering a possible, plausible explanation.

The thing with including sensory integration dysfunction in the criteria is that (a) people have it wildly differently on the spectrum (b) it changes over time with people (c) what about cases where someone is blind, deaf etc but has AS.

In fact (c) would evidence the memory argument.



alba
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27 Feb 2009, 2:13 pm

Both 1)overly sensitive perceptual [sensory] function as well as 2)tendency to analyze certain things to death.....may play their role in terms of memory function. We select what is encoded, stored and retained on the basis of priority. When our priorities are different from NTs, we retain different things and for different purposes. We also like to slow down what is coming at us because we want to consider all data....and choose based on our own discretionary filters what to keep and what to discard. When the discretionary filters needed for satisfying our own interests mean we will miss social cues....oh well...the social cues are discarded.

We tend to be uninterested in the surface of things and prefer to go deeply into a given subject...that is, if it holds any interest for us. NTs convey much of their information on a superficial level via cues saturated with deception. They spend hours and hours all day every day manipulating surface images that are contradictory to their own deeply held convictions and emotions. Autistics don't function this way and we can't process such discrepancies without becoming thoroughly overwhelmed. Not only are we wired to be more perceptually sensitive, but along with that, we are usually wired for more integrity. In many ways, it is simply impossible for us to navigate through life trying to reconcile such obvious ambiguity and deception commonplace to social interaction. Our overly sensitive natures just can't handle it.

If we don't like it and/or don't understand it, chances are--we won't remember it.



Last edited by alba on 27 Feb 2009, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Feb 2009, 2:32 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
Theorem: The only significant neurological difference in Autism is that of memory function. Autism is caused by the action of society and this neurological difference.


How would the detail-orientated perception and inability to perceive the whole be caused by memory issues?

Edit: Same goes for a lack of TOM - given your theory, how would that relate to impairment in memory?


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Last edited by Sora on 27 Feb 2009, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Feb 2009, 2:34 pm

i usually save my s**t on a flash drive or cd and i have plenty of memory



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27 Feb 2009, 3:34 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH! YOU ARE RIGHT!

Afraid not - your only writing that post because you want to believe you are utterly special. Well asides your inability to read books as well, it seems. You might think that before posting the thread I would have good answers to the obvious questions, so here goes:


ACTUALLY, it is bad form to claim something the other doesn't even seem to be claiming, claim a deficiency they clearly don't have AND, after doing ALL that, claim you know it all!

Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
HOW could my sensory problems be because of memory?

Probably the most difficult one to prove. Think as to what you take in when you remember event - no one takes in every piece of information. Now start following through my argument.


And WHAT, PRAY TELL, does that have to do with sensitivity to noise, light, or touch?

Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
And most of my social problems have NO link to memory! HECK, some of my VERBAL "problems" are because some memory is TOO GOOD and I want to be truthful!

Read a book on conversation skills and see how they are dependent on memory. Most importantly you need to be able to recall the right facts in a given timeframe. If less comes into your head, there is less of an opportunity to lie. Autistic people think more slowly - something which could be easily attributed to memory.


Again, WHAT does that have to do with missing cues, literal interpretation, etc????


Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
And Autistic people aren't, as a group, stupid.

Who said we were. By the way I am referring to the whole spectrum here, for clarity purposes.


As I recall, this was made on an allusion you made.


Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:

They ALSO don't lack the ability to remember. Those talents are just allocated differently.

We do remember and recall things differently.


YEP!

Kangoogle wrote:
Quote:
To say that Autism is 100% because of memory is DUMB! After all, MANY MR people have a bad memory, but have never been considered autistic.

I never said bad memory, or memory problems. Just different memory systems. Plus I must point out before modelling on yourself - you assume you have nothing else asides Autism.


Actually, if I were paranoid, had DID, tourettes, etc.... It would make NO difference. I am speaking of the group as a whole.



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27 Feb 2009, 3:39 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
millie wrote:
Quote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Callista wrote:
There's a memory component to it; but I don't think that this is particularly fundamental to autism.

If anything is fundamental to autism, it seems to be that the brain processes information differently, including social, linguistic, and sensory information.

My argument here is that this is all because of memory and external factors. The key thing really is what we retain and in what ways we can recall it.


i do not really understand this.

How will it help me if i remember and know i cannot stand more than one noise at a time?

Memory does not alter the fact i have extreme sensory integration dysfunction as part of my AS presentation. (and please bear in mind some of the more progressive specialists in the field actually believe SID should be included in the diagnostic criteria.)

Memory cannot help except in terms of me moderating and modifiying my external environment to reduce noise. But it cannot help to reduce the sensory issues.


:wink:

I never said it would help you - really all I am doing is offering a possible, plausible explanation.

The thing with including sensory integration dysfunction in the criteria is that (a) people have it wildly differently on the spectrum (b) it changes over time with people (c) what about cases where someone is blind, deaf etc but has AS.

In fact (c) would evidence the memory argument.


But it ISN"T possible! Therefore, it ISN'T plausible, and is no explanation! That some simple HIGH level problem could explain so many lower level problems that are TOTALLY unrelated. Of course, some of the lower level problems MAY cause a memory problem, but YOU are claiming the REVERSE.



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28 Feb 2009, 10:10 am

alba wrote:
Both 1)overly sensitive perceptual [sensory] function as well as 2)tendency to analyze certain things to death.....may play their role in terms of memory function. We select what is encoded, stored and retained on the basis of priority. When our priorities are different from NTs, we retain different things and for different purposes. We also like to slow down what is coming at us because we want to consider all data....and choose based on our own discretionary filters what to keep and what to discard. When the discretionary filters needed for satisfying our own interests mean we will miss social cues....oh well...the social cues are discarded.

We tend to be uninterested in the surface of things and prefer to go deeply into a given subject...that is, if it holds any interest for us. NTs convey much of their information on a superficial level via cues saturated with deception. They spend hours and hours all day every day manipulating surface images that are contradictory to their own deeply held convictions and emotions. Autistics don't function this way and we can't process such discrepancies without becoming thoroughly overwhelmed. Not only are we wired to be more perceptually sensitive, but along with that, we are usually wired for more integrity. In many ways, it is simply impossible for us to navigate through life trying to reconcile such obvious ambiguity and deception commonplace to social interaction. Our overly sensitive natures just can't handle it.

If we don't like it and/or don't understand it, chances are--we won't remember it.

Your starting to go on the right lines here - keep going...



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28 Feb 2009, 10:27 am

Sora wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Theorem: The only significant neurological difference in Autism is that of memory function. Autism is caused by the action of society and this neurological difference.


How would the detail-orientated perception and inability to perceive the whole be caused by memory issues?

Edit: Same goes for a lack of TOM - given your theory, how would that relate to impairment in memory?

In short - linquistics would explain the whole lot. Language (and by extension in the large part - social interaction) is based around NT memory structure not our own. It explains why aspies are on average, more inclined towards mathematics type things - visual recall is a lot easier than verbal recall.



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28 Feb 2009, 10:52 am

Kangoogle wrote:
In short - linquistics would explain the whole lot. Language (and by extension in the large part - social interaction) is based around NT memory structure not our own. It explains why aspies are on average, more inclined towards mathematics type things - visual recall is a lot easier than verbal recall.


The perception of details and inability to perceive the whole doesn't have to do with linguistics. It's the senses that are primarily effected, which can effect the comprehension and usage of language as a secondary consequence.

It also doesn't explain about a lack of TOM - not a mere fail at the test.


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28 Feb 2009, 3:45 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
In short - linquistics would explain the whole lot. Language (and by extension in the large part - social interaction) is based around NT memory structure not our own.

Actually this concept is somewhat controversial, and has not been empirically demonstrated as fact.
Evidently, non-verbal language by all estimates makes up much more of social interaction among non-autists than verbal language.
Quote:
It explains why aspies are on average, more inclined towards mathematics type things - visual recall is a lot easier than verbal recall.

The problem being that is has been consistently estimated (from prevalence studies) that approximately 80% of those with Aspergers Syndrome have NVLD, a condition that usually entails advanced verbal/language skills and deficits in visual spacial skills.


You are frankly stretching the meaning of memory (in order to make the theorem work) to the point of being so vague and over-reaching as to not be a useful concept in contexts such as this.

To suggest that because memory relies on the way incoming information is treated by neuro-functions, that if something is wrong with the processing of incoming information, that it is a memory problem, (rather than a problem that may have implication for memory) removes rather than adds clarity, making the theorem less than useful.



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28 Feb 2009, 4:38 pm

Sora wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
In short - linquistics would explain the whole lot. Language (and by extension in the large part - social interaction) is based around NT memory structure not our own. It explains why aspies are on average, more inclined towards mathematics type things - visual recall is a lot easier than verbal recall.


The perception of details and inability to perceive the whole doesn't have to do with linguistics. It's the senses that are primarily effected, which can effect the comprehension and usage of language as a secondary consequence.

It also doesn't explain about a lack of TOM - not a mere fail at the test.

TOM does not exist. Instead there is a TOS (theory of society) - which is a component that NT's don't need as the society is built around them. We on the other hand would need to fully understand society to adapt to it and even then we would have to consciously have to apply it everyday until it became intuition (and some parts will never be) They find it intuitive, basically they are born into a system which by design is optimised for them. On the other hand, there are things which we are able to do intuitively, or subgroups of us are, which they can't. Computers and mathematics were to a large extent designed around people like ourselves - hence why a lot of us find them intuitive.