is self-confidence and social skills Synonymous?

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Definitely not in my experience.

I've been 100% confident, but still been unable to participate effectively or had people ignore me.

It's frustrating because I mentally prepare myself for a social occasion, imagine myself gliding effortlessly chatting to different people. Yes I have been reading about all those creative visualisation techniques in those self help books.

It all becomes pure fantasy though. The moment I enter the room, I'm overwhelmed by the noise. I don't know where to turn. I'm clueless as to how I should begin. Because no-one's ever told me how to approach people, I don't know how to do this.

After I've barged my way into someone-else's group, I get accused of being rude and arrogant.
This is upsetting because I don't mean to offend people.

Some people don't mind my individuality, others really do mind.
I wish they'd tell me exactly what I was doing "wrong" and what I should do about it.

I will...you're not. Stop beating yourself over the head trying to be something you're not.

You can read all the books you want but the chemistry isn't there. It's like trying to bake a cake, and not having all the proper ingredients OR the heat to have it done.

NTs just have that chemistry to flow from one to the other; we don't have it. I could care less at this point TO have it.

So... no-bake cookies instead, then?

Seriously, if you have enough skill to inform people that your offense was inadvertent, then you're probably going to be fine. The willingness to apologize--in the sense of "If I had known, I wouldn't have done that"--will go a long way with people, even if they think you are the most undiplomatic person on the face of the earth. Anyway, if you don't take risks you'll never build up your mental database of "things not to say".

As someone who's studied a lot of chemistry I completely agree with you.
I will stop beating myself up.

Lots of people have expected me to "get" group interaction/group cooperation instantly because I'm a woman and seem genuinely surprised when I don't.

I must say that I found all of those hypnosis CDs/books mildly relaxing...so they can't have been a complete waste of money lol
They are good for destressing at least.

Be yourself...

Yes that was one of the mantras I think.
I agree with that one.

But the guy sure spent a lot of time blabbering on about "if you're 100% confident you'll handle social situations with ease"...
Which is complete and utter rubbish of course.

If I feel more confident with the right people, sometimes it is easier. I'm sure I could get a lot better at socialising it I practiced more, but I'd never ever have the ease of someone who's been a "butterfly" since birth, much in the same way that I'll never be a virtuoso at the piano because I didn't start playing when I was 3.

Come to think of it, I don't think I ever really wanted to be a virtuoso at the piano anyway.
I have music technology on my side: whoo for programmable synthesizers!
Now I can fool people (with a lot of effort and a mouse) that I am a brilliant musician without ever having to physically play a note.
Can't perform live though. That's a good analogy actually: I know most of the "theory" but my practical live performance is as little...impaired.

Sure some people wouldn't want it any other way though lol!

pandd summed it up.

Not that.

It could be for some - people are so different, there's always someone for which a certain statement holds true.

But I do lack the social skills and I am self-confident nevertheless. Arrogant probably too. Easily annoyed and confused. (Humans are so confusing it's not even remotely funny.) But also self-confident.

I totally agree here, I´ve found that since I´ve become more aware of the things I do, I am more able to see sometimes what mistakes I make. I have noticed- at least here in Europe, where I live- an apology can go a long way to mend a situation.

As for confidence, well...I´ve been both confident and unconfident, depending on the time of my life or the situation I am in. Confidence hasn´t necessarily helped my social performance, at all! (Although it is a good way to get started on learning social skills- nothing ventured nothing gained). I went through a phase of being quite confident at one time (when I was younger), and I was talking a lot and feeling fine in social situations, but I just lacked awareness. Finally, someone told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to work on my social skills and that nobody liked me or wanted to be with me. In the situations where my skills seem to be the best- or at least get the best results- are the situations where I am very aware, controlled and concentrated about what I am doing. Then once I find someone who can really accept me as me, at that point I can finally relax and just be myself.

I would say the keys to social skills are knowledge, awareness and practice.

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I do not know if it pertains to AS people. The issue of social skills and their application is also complicated by sensory integration dysfunction and by my inability to read facial expression AND words AND body language all at once in one perosn, let alone a SOCIAL GROUP.

I have done years of therapy to develop social skills. I have acquired intellectual knowledge.So cognitively i know a few things. But because it is cognitive processing - i lag behind. i cannot keep up. I have tried to practice that knowledge. I have done years of boring old 12 step programs trying to fine tune my social exchanges with others, and still, I am stuffed when it comes to an awareness of the social interplays. That remains in me. That is an intrinsic part of my AS.

so i have indeed tried t ouse knowledge, awareness and practice. But it is like a veneer over the top of my AS core.


I can cope to some degree one on one.
more than one is exhausting.

My AS psych broke it down very simply the other day.

One person = one set of words, facial expressions and body actions to break down.

Two people = two sets of words, two sets of facial expressions, and two sets of body language PLUS the fact they may be talking to each other and talking to you so there are a host of interplays between people to keep up with as well.

THree or more? i hardly bother.

His solution - and he is a cool AS specialist - was not so much to increase awareness -. his solution was to make sure i rest a lot after any social exchanges because they are exhasuting for many AS people. No way around it.

THis is the square brain in the round hole issue. OUr brains have to squeeze into a social formula that does not come naturally and never really will, because i will ALWAYS for the rest of my life, be exhausted by group social activity of any sort, because my brain does not comprehend it. i have improved and can fake certain scripts i have learned. but that does not alleviate the exhaustion - in fact it adds to it.


fatalistic? no.
Practical and a relief to know? yes.
the application and adherence to ordinary therapy solutions to my social f**k ups just does not work as it does for others. What works is an acceptance of my AS and a modifcation of how i live in accord with that, so i can pace myself and live to my fullest.

Last edited by millie on 03 Mar 2009, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This would explain why I can only really talk with and lead a maximum of 3 people at close quarters.

Any more than that and I experience "system overload".

I remember being put into a group with seven other people as part of an obligatory "Key Skills" communication group-work assessment at school. It was hell. I just couldn't keep up until some kind soul came to my rescue and suggested that I contribute. I managed to scrape through and my factual reasoning was much better than the majority and they were grateful for my contribution. I told myself never again. But I had to do similar group-work again.

I slept very well that night through sheer exhaustion.

Sounds like you have a really helpful therapist.
I wonder what he'd think about all this enforced group-work.

Having good social skills can imrove confidence and vise versabut not always.

My social skill aren't actually that bad I just have really bad self confidence

I do not know if it pertains to AS people. The issue of social skills and their application is also complicated by sensory integration dysfunction and by my inability to read facial expression AND words AND body language all at once in one perosn, let alone a SOCIAL GROUP.

I have done years of therapy to develop social skills. I have acquired intellectual knowledge.So cognitively i know a few things. But because it is cognitive processing - i lag behind. i cannot keep up. I have tried to practice that knowledge. I have done years of boring old 12 step programs trying to fine tune my social exchanges with others, and still, I am stuffed when it comes to an awareness of the social interplays. That remains in me. That is an intrinsic part of my AS.

so i have indeed tried t ouse knowledge, awareness and practice. But it is like a veneer over the top of my AS core.
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Dang, once again I screwed up with this "quote" thing so it looks like I´m quoting myself...when I was trying to quote millie....sigh Anyway:

Yes, I agree with you there. In terms of myself, my social skills are by no means "set" (or perfect)- and I didn´t mean to imply that they were. I do notice a progression though, as I gain knowledge- (and I´m sure this varies from person to person, depending on how their particular AS manifests, as well as the degree of AS, etc.). What I do notice is that knowledge seems to override confidence, in any case; confidence didn´t do much to help me in social situations, it only helped in that I took more chances. But knowledge gives me a basis point at which I can start to work. As I said, this may vary from person to person.

I think I can read faces and body language to some extent, partly due to my study of theater and acting; however, I realize lately how often I rely on "text" to read non-verbal cues. This may also be due to my study of theater, directing and texts; I know what "X" actor should be thinking and feeling based on the words...and I often get it wrong, both while watching movies as well as in real life! There was an online test recently on WP about reading faces- I had a look at it, and I felt totally clueless! I had no idea what the faces were saying...(and they were the strangest faces I´ve ever seen, I must say). But my guess is if they weren´t just disengaged faces, but people talking, I would have been able to deduce much more. I seem to able to "see" faces better if I´m also hearing words, although this may not always be totally accurate as I tend to "put in" what I think I should be seeing, if that makes any sense.

As far as groups go, I can sometimes interact ok- largely depending on who I´m with- but I miss a lot of the group dynamic social stuff that´s going on. This has been a problem for me over and over again, either resulting in difficult work environments (which I realize too late), or rejection and abandonment problems, of which I am the victim.

ah yeah - i get what yo are saying now.
and i see how some knowledge does make some things easier for us without curing us.
now i can see where you are coming from

for more cool info go to neshamaruach's blog -- aspergerjourneys.com if you haven't already.
I love it and i suspect you might too.
(and there is no www. before the aspergerjourneys.com so keep clicking on the yes buttons and you get through.)

When I go out I tend to watch others and pay attention to what they do. I guess if I watch enough people I can get an idea of what social skills are since, logically, in order to live a day by day life you must have some skills.
One thing a lot of people do and I mean a lot is talk on cell phones. I see people doing this all over the supercenter when I shop, and the mall where I go windowshopping. The drivers of SUVs when I am on the interstate. All have one skill in common: the use of a cell phone.
Another thing I see...people are not really that connected. I see people in public and they don't say much to each other and are quiet. I think I live in a place where the majority of people do not have great social skills. I hardly ever see anyone I would say has great social skills except for my mother who goes out of her way to have them, and she goes overboard, sometimes, IMO.
Next time I go out to eat I am going to pay even closer attention to be sure, but from what I can tell, most people act a lot like I do. They are kind of quiet and hasty to get the task done.

What do you mean by 'self-confidence' in this context?

It's possible to be a confident person, to have faith in your own skills and abilities and lack social skills, you could have confidence to do something your good at e.g. sing in front of an audience, play football, drive a car, etc These require no social skills at all and are often a fantastic release for people without social skills as doing them well can give rise to that warm glow of inner confidence that may be all too rare for Aspies.

I suspect you mean socially confident, in which case I would say it really depends on the company, with the right people its possible to feel confident without the social skills. In the wrong company or until people have figured you out, its very difficult if not impossible have self-confidence until youve got some level of acceptance from the people around you.

I take it you mean having self confidence in social situations, in which case if your talking about strangers or people who dont know you reasonably well, then yes I'd say the two things are pretty much synonymous. Failed social contacts lead to doubt & lacking self confidence in my experience

Thanks for reminding me about neshamaruach´s blog! I had actually seen it before, when she first made it, but it´s really expanded since then. She´s been busy! There are a lot of interesting articles in there.

oh good, morgana. it is excellent, isn't it.
i have fond memories of you, nesh and others on our "females and AS: a different presentation" thread from last oct-nov.
we really got through a lot in the weeks it was running.